Posted on 12/28/2013 10:20:36 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
As to "in church" I mean that not so much broadly as to the Church (body of Christ), but as to which styles are Biblically permitted in individual churches.
1.) At what point (scripturally) does a church worship team (for instance) go too far when plucking the bass guitar or electric guitar, or beat the drums too loudly? At what point is the "riff" (or beat) becoming too "wordly."
Define "wordly" music as opposed to non-wordly music if/when discussing this. I ask this of those who lean more towards the Michael W. Smith type worship services or to those who like the Southern Gospel type worship services.
2.) At what point does "Southern Gospel" music become a little too Southern and thus become too worldly/honkey-tonk/Country/Country Rock? I ask this of those say they like who like what they deem to be Godly "Southern Gospel."
3.) I still can't find any scripture that exegetically/hermeneutically says that a service must be marked by only Latin/Gregorian chanting. Surely these churches can imploy other "styles" of music, too, at least in the "main" service.
But His favorite song of all is the song of the redeemed......
Philips, Craig and Dean
You might have an idea of what I’m about to describe then. My grandmother born in the 1800’s would sometimes sing wordless Hymns. The churches sang the tune using something like Do Ra Me sounds but not any actual words. I can’t remember what it was called but I know it used to be common.
Oh C’mon!
Have you never heard of power chords and what they can do?
HHC’s husband.
I don’t think I’m in the minority when I tell you I don’t listen to ANY symphony or concerto written by any one. As much as that’s good music, it’s not for everyone.
“Most” of the music you don’t like seems like your reasoning to ban EVERYTHING written after 1939. People like you should have your own worship services that will soon enough not be needed as you will have all died off.
Perhaps you could stop pretending that your old fashioned taste is a higher standard, then maybe you could share the joy of worship in music with more than just the elite disciples with good taste.
When I was a kid there weren't so many different styles of music. There really wasn't much "contemporary christian" at all. Rock and Roll was still pretty new. Church music was hymns (christian lyrics with theology in them) often put to popular melodies of the time. And there was country gospel music which was honky tonk music with christian lyrics or a good moral.
Its a different world now as far as music goes. But I believe this with all my heart... whatever style of music we sing when we praise God... our worship in our churches... it should be the best we can do. There is no reason why church music should be second rate. For centuries the best music in the world came from Churches or church musicians.
We're to give our best to the Lord. Our best tithes and offering. Our best worship. Our best obedience. Our best music. Our best lives we can give. Our music in worship services should be excellent and presented to God as the best we can do.
Could not have said it any better.
...”It must have been difficult to sit through”....
For me it certainly was, especially since it was Christmas Eve when we as Christians enjoy sharing the celebration of His Birth with other Christians as a family of believers. There was no sense of that there during or after “ The Show”....they even had smoke billowing as they do at rock concerts! Can you believe it!.... Not to mention the lead guitarist doing air splits!
What ever happened to “Silent Night, Holy Night” and “Peace on earth” Christmas Eve?.....this was “something else” entirely and throngs gathered there no less.... four services throughout the night to allow for seating. What’s next..tickets to get in!
...”I believe this with all my heart... whatever style of music we sing when we praise God... our worship in our churches... it should be the best we can do. There is no reason why church music should be second rate”.....
I ‘might’ agree if the object is to lift up Christ among the Worshipers. But this has not been my observation in most of the contemporary services I’ve been to. The Worship “teams” are focused entirely ‘on entertaining before an audiance’ rather than leading the congregation in worship via music and song.
There is a stark difference between those who are focused on their “mission of leading in song worship” and those who are there for their own glory and “entertainment”......and that is always revealed through how they project themselves in their stage presence to the congregation....or lack of in being self-absorbed.
As a “worship team” the work is to raise the hearts of the people from whatever they walked in with to that of “seeing Jesus” among them and worship of Him in song rather than being entertained as so often the case. This is not to say there isn’t a time for such entertainment....many churches have special evenings of entertainment where the music is intended to do that and as well reveal Christ. But what I’ve seen in contemporary churches is mostly entertainment.
What they presented as a Christmas program would put many of the contemporary church services to shame. These teenagers recognized the difference between playing ‘for’ the Christmas Season and who it was they were celebrating....and that of what would be otherwise entertaining an audience alone.
I think the issue is not so much the style or music as it is “worship teams” have the same temptation Pastors do, in that they can fall to the idea “they” are the focus and their “mission” then becomes secondary.
These young teenagers played to their audience who were there for a Christmas Celebration of the Birth of Christ....even if they didnt’ believe they recognized what the audience wanted....it was not about them as much as appealing to the minds and hearts of the audience....it worked.
I am just repeating history. I am sorry if that upsets you. The introduction of organ music into churches is traditionally ascribed to Pope Vitalian (657-672). The Protestant reformers generally condemned instrumental music as a Catholic heresy. It was not until the 20th century that many Protestant churches adopted instrumental music.
You might have made your comment without thinking it through.. the Hymns that INDELIBLE GRACE performs, are actually taken from very old Presbyterian, Baptist, and Methodist hymnals. Many of these hymns are well over 200 years old, ALL of them were used in Church services at one time.
Kevin Twit, (founder of Indelible Grace)has said,”Our hope is to help the church recover the tradition of putting old hymns to new music for each generation, and to enrich our worship with a huge view of God and His indelible grace. Our hope is to be a voice calling our generation back to something rich and solid and beyond the fluff and the trendy. We want to remind God’s people that thinking and worship are not mutually exclusive, and we want to invite the Church to appreciate her heritage without idolizing it. We want to open up a world of passion and truth and make it more that just an archaic curiosity for the religiously sentimental. We believe worship is formative, and that it does matter what we sing.”
Indelible Grace “MARRIES” the texts of these precious old Hymns, to NEW Music.. this is HARDLY Christian Contemporary Music. These albums would NOT merit a second glance at most Christian radio stations.
When these hymns were originally composed..they often used tunes that were somewhat popular in that era..usually something that folk would be able to sing and remember with ease.. Indelible Grace does nothing different here, using the folk music of our own era (country flavored folk and light rock) in their recordings. Indelible Grace invites everyone to listen to the hymns, but while doing so, CONTEMPLATE what these lyrics are saying.. This is real Worship music.
Although we may not use the same instrumentation that INDELIBLE GRACE does in their recordings.. we sing these many of these Hymns in our Church service.
A few years ago, a documentary was made about INDELIBLE GRACE..with a good portion of a concert they performed at The Ryman Auditorium in Nashville.. you might enjoy seeing them perform.. this is quite good = http://youtu.be/dfAD8oofyM0
What the hell are you complaining about? You young rockers have already taken over the music programs of most churches and chased out the organs, choirs and hymns.
A teenage girl once was telling me about the mega-church that she attended, and I asked her if it had an organ. She responded with a blank stare, and I realized that she had no idea what an organ was.
To you, that’s just dandy!
“To you, that’s just dandy!”
Not so. I like the piano and organ old fashioned hymns very much. I’m just not going to push that style as the only real “sacred music”.
Variety is enjoyed by most people. Churches where only the modern, what you call 24/7 music is played are excluding the people that enjoy “traditional” hymns, and that is just as selfish as those that want anything written after 1939 banned.
I, personally, don’t like the blood excluding, love songs turned religious about how wonderful God is, sing the chorus 6 times or more, and watch how holy the main actors are modern music. I do, however, enjoy many songs that are well composed and modern that are popular. “Above All” comes to mind as one such banned in your perfect world song.
And what’s this “What the hell are you complaining about?” bovine droppings you spout. You are the one complaining, and banning. I just want to see you calm down and let there be other types of music than what you feel are the only sacred form.
You need to get over yourself or become isolated as a grouchy old windbag.
Time will tell.
"Silent Night"? "O Holy Night"? Those songs are all for old squares and fuddy-duddies. We need to replace them with disco, rap and "praise" music.
Instead of the Isaac Watts/Lowell Mason version of "Joy to the World," so beloved by old fogies and musical elitists, Christmas Eve services should from now on feature this version:
Blue Collar Christian, it's good to know that you are filled with the spirit of hope, love, joy and peace of the season.
Happy holidays!
“Never been a sinner. Never sinned. I’ve got a friend in Jesus...”
That contradicts 1 John Chapter 1, which says that if any man says that he has never sinned he is a liar.
Secondly, if I am not mistaken, Greenbaum at the time did not consider Jesus Christ to be the Messiah.
Based upon both of these, or either one, you made an unBiblical and bad choice. perhaps now is a time of repentance for you... :).
Secondly, if I am not mistaken, Greenbaum at the time did not consider Jesus Christ to be the Messiah.
I can't say for certain. Greenbaum was raised Jewish, but I have never seen quotes attributable at the time over the last 35 yearws that he didn't accept Christ. If you can direct me to some, I would appreciate it.
I believe Greenbaum's full thoughts remain an enigma. Greeenbraum was insprired to write the song after listening to a Porter Wagner gospel song.
The only true criticism came from the Christian side who were not very pleased with his lyric… “Never been a sinner I never sinned.” Greenbaum says, “I just didn’t know better at the time.”
Excellent album, cva66snipe. Excellent album.
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