(from April 18, 2011) The hidden exodus:Catholics becoming Protestants

National Catholic Reporter ^ | Apr. 18, 2011 | Thomas Reese

[daniel1212]

Many left the Church-- not due to doctrine or in a search for truth-- but for personal reasons. These include living in a sinful lifestyle like adultery

The same can be said for those who leave evangelical churches. But if anything, there is less reason for such to leave Rome, as such are treated as members in life and in death. How was Ted Kennedy treated?

Many were lazy and just found the moral and disciplinary laws of the Church too demanding...These are the type that say "the Church has too many rules"

Moral and disciplinary laws too demanding?! Are you longing for thinking of the day of the Inquisition and all its means? The majority of RCs can hardly be said to find moral and disciplinary laws of the Church too demanding, as it abounds with liberals. Back in the 60s i remember my mom saying how strict the RC church was, in support of it, as were devout practitioners, yet while having a high moral code in our family, Catholics where in and out of church in an hour, could smoke, drink, even had their own KoC barooms, and could work and play on Sunday, etc., and had no home devotions outside of the Lent rituals, and less faithful had no problem getting the sacraments. That was being strict.

In contrast, we had some Nazarene neighbors, also with kids, and they were gone to church most of the day, and the kids could not even play on Sunday, and no drinking etc. That was what seemed strict to me, and today if i lived by Catholic rules i would have a lower standard of conduct.

People who say they left the Church for "doctrinal reason" are usually liars. Fact is, the average Catholic is so ignorant of their own faith they wouldn't know a theological fallacy if it fell on them.

Actually, while the average Catholic is very ignorant, as that is what Rome breeds, most who leave Rome for evangelical churches do not do so much as due to doctrinal reasons, but do so because of the spiritual deficiency they found in Rome, myself being one of them.

Only 20% of former Catholics now evangelical were unhappy about Catholicism's teachings on abortion/homosexuality (versus 46% of those now unaffiliated); and 23% also expressed disagreement with teaching on divorce/remarriage; and only 12% were dissatisfied with teachings on birth control.

And 46% of evangelical converts from Catholicism said the Catholic Church did not view the Bible literally enough. And if they ever read their study notes in their NAB beginning in 1970, they would have even more reason.

Like I said, this is based solely upon about 30 years of first hand experience, but it is borne out consistently again and again

But which is largely meaningless as regards these reasons being exclusive to Catholicism, while what is abundantly evident is that being liberal, divorced, etc. is not much of a hindrance for Catholics, as some here have testified.

And it is my 40 year experience as a born again, former RC, that Catholics are overall not only liberal, but far interested in talking about Christ, salvation and things of the Bible, except to promote their church. If that.

[MeganC]

Interesting comment given that the current pope is a Jesuit.

[daniel1212]

There's a simple way to measure this. As Catholics move into Protestant denominations (or vise versa) does that body vote more / less conservative?

This may help:

• Religiously unaffiliated voters - the fastest growing block - 61% identified with or leaned toward the Democratic Party, versus 27% for Republicans. - http://www.pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/Trends-in-Party-Identification-of-Religious-Groups-affiliation.aspx

• 65% of Catholics supported a tax increase for the wealthiest Americans in 2006, up from 52 percent in 2002. Majorities of Catholics support issues traditionally considered planks of the Democratic Party platform: universal healthcare, pro-labor policies, access to abortion, and social welfare programs for the poor. http://cara.georgetown.edu/NewsandPress/PressReleases/pr061808.pdf

• 10% of Evangelical Protestants reside in the NE, 23% in the Midwest, 50% in the South, and 17% in the West. Catholics: 29% NE, 24% Midwest, 24% in the South, 23% in the West. “Muslim Americans: Middle Class and Mostly Mainstream,” Pew Research Center, 2007. http://religions.pewforum.org/comparisons#

• The population of Massachusetts ranks as the most liberal, with Boston and Cambridge being the most liberal large cities (100,000 or more), followed by California. http://www.epodunk.com/top10/liberal/index.html

• The 16 most Catholic states contain 24 of the most liberal cities. Excluding (Maryland 26th), predominately Roman Catholic states contain all but one (Seattle WA) of the 30 most liberal cities. Of states in which S. Baptists are the single largest denomination none (of the 30 cities) were found. (the term “liberal” being defined according to individual contributions to PACs, election returns and the number of homosexual households: http://www.epodunk.com/top10/liberal/index.html http://www.glenmary.org/grc/RCMS_2000/Catholic_findings.htm , http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html.

• The highest percentages of residents who describe themselves as Christian are typically in the South, including: Shreveport, LA (98%), Birmingham (96%), Charlotte (96%), Nashville (95%), Greenville, SC / Asheville, NC (94%), New Orleans (94%), Indianapolis (93%), Lexington (93%), Roanoke-Lynchburg (93%), Little Rock (92%), and Memphis (92%). http://www.barna.org/faith-spirituality/435-diversity-of-faith-in-various-us-cities

• 73% of the populations of Charlotte and Shreveport held scripture in high regard, versus only 27% of the residents of Providence, Rhode Island [the most Catholic state] and San Francisco [the most homosexual large city]. ^

• The lowest percentages of self-identified Christians inhabited the following markets: San Francisco (68%), Portland, Oregon (71%), Portland, Maine (72%), Seattle (73%), Sacramento (73%), New York (73%), San Diego (75%), Los Angeles (75%), Boston (76%), Phoenix (78%), Miami (78%), Las Vegas (78%), and Denver (78%). Even in these cities, however, roughly three out of every four residents align with Christianity. ^

• The highest percentage of souls who tended toward being atheist or agnostic were in Portland, Maine (19%), Seattle (19%), Portland, Oregon (16%), Sacramento (16%), and Spokane (16%)

• Commitment to evangelism (agree strongly that a person has a responsibility to share their beliefs with others) saw the greatest percentage of endorsement by residents of Birmingham (64%) and Charlotte (54%), in contrast to residents of Providence (14%) and Boston (17%).

• (See HERE for a table of casual Religious-Political relations. And HERE for correlation between faith, ideology, politics, environment, money.) TOC

[daniel1212]

You will notice no citations were posted to back up that claim!

I indeed noticed, and thus supplied what is documented.

Also relevant,

• A combined 15 percent of the clergy polled identified themselves as "gay (9%) > or more (6%) on the homosexual side." Among younger priests 23 percent did so. Los Angeles Times (extensive) nationwide survey (2002). http://www.bishop-accountability.org/resources/resource-files/reports/LAT-Priest-Survey.pdf

• 17 percent of the priests said "definitely" , and 27% said "probably," a homosexual subculture'--defined as a `definite group of persons that has its own friendships, social gatherings and vocabulary'--exists in their diocese or religious order. ^

• After examining the official web sites of 244 Catholic universities and colleges in America, the TFP Student Action found that 107 – or 43% have pro-homosexual clubs. TFP Student Action Dec. 6. 2011; studentaction.org/get-involved/online-petitions/pro-homosexual-clubs-at-107-catholic-colleges/print.html

• 39 percent of Roman Catholics and 79 percent of born-again, evangelical or fundamentalist American Christians affirm that homosexual behavior is sinful. LifeWay (SBC) Research study, released Wednesday. 2008 LifeWay Research study. http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080606/survey-americans-divided-on-homosexuality-as-sin.htm

• 79 percent of American Jews, 58 percent of Catholics and 56 percent of mainline Protestants favor acceptance of homosexuality, versus 39 percent of members of historically black churches, 27 percent of Muslims and 26 percent of the evangelical Protestants. U.S. U.S. Religious landscape survey; Copyright © 2008 The Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. http://religions.pewforum.org/comparisons#

• 56% of Catholics overall (and 46% of the general public) believe that sexual relations between two adults of the same gender is not a sin, while 39%. of Catholics say homosexual behavior is morally wrong, (versus 76% of white evangelicals and 66% of black Protestants, and 40% of Mainline Protestants). 41% of Catholics do not consider homosexual behavior to be a moral issue. (Pew Research Center, Religion & Politics Survey, 2009; PRRI/RNS Religion News Survey, October 2010; http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Catholics-and-LGBT-Issues-Survey-Report.pdf)

• Catholics testify [2010] to showing more support (in numbers) for legal recognitions of same-sex relationships than members of any other Christian tradition, and Americans overall. Almost three-quarters of Catholics favor either allowing gay and lesbian people to marry or allowing them to form civil unions (43% and 31% respectively). Only 22% of Catholics said there should be no legal recognition of a gay couple’s relationship. (PRRI, Pre-­-election American Values Survey, 9/2010; http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Catholics-and-LGBT-Issues-Survey-Report.pdf.)

• This 2010 survey of more than 3,000 adults found that 41% of White American Catholics, 45% of Latino Catholics (versus 16 percent of White evangelical Christians, and 23% of Black Protestants) supported the rights of same-sex couples to marry, and 36% (22% of Latino Catholics) supported civil unions (versus 24% of White evangelicals, and 25% of Black Protestants). Among the general public the rates were 37 and 27 percent.

• 69% of Catholics disagree that homosexual orientation can be changed, versus 23% who believe that they can change. ^

• 19% of White Catholics, 30% of Latino Catholics, 58% of White evangelicals, 52% of Black Protestants and 29% of White Mainline Protestants oppose any legal recognition of homosexual marriage. ^

• 60% of Catholics overall, and 53% of the general public favor allowing homosexual couples to adopt children. ^

• 73% of Catholics favor laws that would protect gay and lesbian people against discrimination in the workplace, and 63% favor allowing homosexuals to serve openly in the military. For the general public the figures are 68% and 58% respectively. ^

• 49% of Catholics and 45% of the general public agree that homosexuals should be eligible for ordination with no special requirements. ^

[Partisan Gunslinger]

The new testament of KJV of the bible completed in 1611 after the reformation was based on the translations of Erasmus a Dutch roman catholic priest and a Greek scholar who used greek byzantine era texts to create the “Textus Receptus”

Read this and/or watch this if you dare. The Catholic bible and the KJV are two different bibles. God's Word was refined 7 times like silver, and this matches the KJV from Antioch, not Alexandria.

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

1. Tyndale

2. Matthew's

3. Coverdale's

4. Great Bible

5. Geneva

6. Bishop's

7. KJV

[xone]

that Rome was/is the instrument and stewards of Scripture,

If true, then some of the Catholics here failed that humility test from St whatever that was posted. Rather than receiving the honor of of being God's instrument in perpetuating the Scripture in humility there is a tendency to brag. As if God who could raise up children for Abraham from stones couldn't have raised another to safeguard His Word. With such a relationship, it is amusing to find so many touted doctrines that have no origination in Scripture, or required the stretching of the same until it is unrecognizable.

[Salvation]

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther

[fidelis]

That’s great news, VK. Praise God. :)

[savagesusie]

Exactly. I love the Catholic Canon-—Love St. Thomas Aquinas, Anselm, Boethius and the solid philosophy/theology behind the Catholic Canon that came from them and Pope Pius X and many others. Every word in the Canon was argued for centuries-—and using the Bible to analyze Good and Evil and the “truths” that the Bible intended to convey. Debated since the Churches inception and only debate can lead to the Truth as Socrates stated—outside of Revelation.

We need people to be taught Catholic Theology-—esp. the “priests”. Many, like in my parish, contradict themselves constantly, with “good Marxist” type “thinking-—which eliminates Reason-—and this Marxist concept of “social” justice as if Justice needs an adjective. They should realize with subsidiarity and the Natural Family—that government “welfare” destroys the soul—and is NEVER charity. It is force and theft and our paper advocates these “social” programs which are government run.

Blurring the truth is evil..... exp. to the little boys and girls-—with this altar girl thing, which is sickening.....to confuse children and Natural Law—foundation of Catholic Theology and Truth.

Catholic teaching used to be clear and concise. Truth is Truth-—and you NEVER beat around the bush about sin and evil which the “church of nice” has been doing since Vatican II when they took out the worship of God and inserted their kumbaya worship of man.

Really makes me mad when I think about the destruction of the 400 year Tradition of the CC (Marxism)-—the silliness-quasi-religious feminization of the Church is pure evil. And Bella Dodd wrote about the Marxists homosexuals in the 30’s and 40’s who were deliberately placed into seminaries to work their way up the structure to control “policy”. Looks like they have total control now (the Marxist homosexuals).

[Old Yeller]

Sure the Catholic population is growing because the Latin America countries are 99% Catholic and they reproduce like rabbits. All the while infiltrating into this country.

[metmom]

Ex-Catholics are mostly gays and what are known as “Cafeteria Catholics” They are willing to rejoin on “their” terms.

Well, there's a watertight argument.

If you can't win with the facts, slander your opponent when baseless and unprovable accusations.

What a way to warm the hearts of non-Catholics to join the RCC.......

[Steelfish]

None of this is unprovable. The phenomenon of cafeteria Catholics is well known and much of this has been written about them. And of course Gays and Lesbians and the Feminists find the Catholic Church as the last bulwark against their perversity. Schools, colleges, the professions and media were all successfully brought into the Sodom and Gomorrah orbit where their lifestyle and liberalism was now orthodoxy.

Finally, the Anglican and Protestant Churches began to genuflect at their demands as well to say nothing of the Black Churches and their pastors. The Catholic Church like the Rock of Gibraltar has a Catechism that instructs homosexual conduct to be an intrinsically disordered evil. These then are mostly your ex-Catholics.

[narses]

Looks to me like the Catholic population is growing.

Catholic population (The Official Catholic Directory)
1965 - 45.6m

1975 - 48.7m

1985 - 52.3m

1995 - 57.4m

2000 - 59.9m

2005 - 64.8m

2013 - 66.8m

[daniel1212]

We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all."

So i will ask you the question i have asked thrice in 3 days without a reply,

So your argument is that Rome was/is the instrument and stewards of Scripture, and thus they are its assuredly correct interpreter? Articulate. As for the quite, I am sure i told you as well as others that you should check out such quotes for context, rather than uncritically parroting other ignorant RCs. For if you knew the polemic behind it, then you would realize it avails you nothing.

[daniel1212]

And i am waiting for an answer as to what this stewardship assertion is supposed to prove.

[nickcarraway]

I guess the argument is, if you don’t trust the Catholic Church, then you cannot trust Scripture therewith.

[Some Fat Guy in L.A.]

I grew up Catholic, but it never made much sense to me. The first time I heard salvation preached in a Baptist church, it all came together for me.

I believe that the many denominations are a sign that our God is a big God that can be worshipped in many ways, as long as The Word is in the center of it. Some folks are going to be mighty surprised at the some of the people they meet in Heaven.

[boatbums]

That certainly makes sense. Someone who would intentionally leave a faith tradition they were born into - and which probably all if not most of their family remains there - wouldn’t leave unless they thought they were leaving for something better. The apathetic people don’t bother leaving. For some, leaving is because they no longer believe in ANY of the tenets and for others, probably the majority, because they find a more excellent way. I know that was my reason and most all the people I know, as well. When I read the truth of the gospel from John 10:27-30, I immediately knew I was hearing the truth that I had been searching for. I also knew it was NOT something that my born-into religion taught. It was the Holy Spirit who shined the light into my heart.

[metmom]

None of this is unprovable.

It's not provable either and you have posted NOTHING to support your assertion. No stats, no links, nothing.

Therefore, we can consider it the baseless opinion that it is. No one is obligated to take unsubstantiated opinion with any degree or seriousness.