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Protestants & Contraception
Answering Protestants ^ | 3 January 2014 | Matthew Olson

Posted on 01/03/2014 8:59:21 PM PST by matthewrobertolson

Protestants opposed contraception until the 1930 Lambeth Conference. After this, positions changed. So, did the Bible change, or did they?




TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; History; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: abortion; bible; birthcontrol; bluestatecatholic; christian; sex
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To: ConservativeMind; ifinnegan
1Co 7:3 The husband should fulfill his duty toward his wife, and likewise the wife toward her husband.

4 A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife.

5 Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control.

seems pretty clear.

61 posted on 01/04/2014 3:06:13 AM PST by verga (Poor spiritual health oftern leads to poor physical and mental health)
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To: boatbums; metmom
While you're gathering all those passages for us, why don't you also defend the Natural Family Planning method the Roman Catholic Church DOES approve of from the Bible.

I am also pinging metmom on this since she has expressed the same position previously

As you (should) already know, the Bible is not the only source of Holy truth. But since you asked I will give it to you for at least the second time.

1 Cor 7:3 The husband should fulfill his duty toward his wife, and likewise the wife toward her husband.

4 A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife.

5 Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control.

I am still praying for both you to have Jesus come into your hearts.

62 posted on 01/04/2014 3:16:52 AM PST by verga (Poor spiritual health oftern leads to poor physical and mental health)
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To: boatbums
It would just be nice if you could do a little historical search of the archives so you aren't starting up discussions that have already been beat to death. It's kinda boring.

Well we hope to bring you the truth, which will allow Jesus to come into your hearts. but I have to wonder if it is so boring why do you feel the need to post? It seems that if you ignore the thread it will die.

63 posted on 01/04/2014 3:19:34 AM PST by verga (Poor spiritual health oftern leads to poor physical and mental health)
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To: RegulatorCountry; kvanbrunt2
Well, no. Moravians, the Unitas Fratrum, precede Luther by over a century. Followers of Jan Hus, the Hussites from whom the Moravians descended, are earlier still. Then, you have the Waldensians, earlier still.

It goes back even to the Bible. In part the Council of Jerusalem was called to put down the Judaizers. You had Adoptionism, Apollinarism, Arianism, Docetism.

The Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople were called to defend against these. The result was the Nicene Creed.

64 posted on 01/04/2014 3:29:05 AM PST by verga (Poor spiritual health oftern leads to poor physical and mental health)
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To: matthewrobertolson; metmom; Alex Murphy
I can't speak for “Protestants,” whatever that even means today. But I can make the following observations:

1. In conservative Reformed circles, which is where I hang my hat, chemical contraception is frowned upon.

2. In my practice I see far more Roman Catholics seeking contraceptives than one would suspect, FWIW I don't write prescriptions for contraceptives.

3. The rhythm method is just another game Roman Catholics play to bend the rules in their favor.

65 posted on 01/04/2014 3:47:03 AM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
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To: Gamecock
The rhythm method is just another game Roman Catholics play to bend the rules in their favor based on teaching found in the Bible and is therefore scriptural. Fixed it for you, see posts 61 and 62.
66 posted on 01/04/2014 4:31:17 AM PST by verga (Poor spiritual health oftern leads to poor physical and mental health)
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To: boatbums; matthewrobertolson; vladimir998; Jim Robinson; verga; St_Thomas_Aquinas; Salvation
Why don't you show us where the Bible condemns any and all forms of contraception? While you're gathering all those passages for us... You know, it's obvious that you are chumming for hits on your blog with the provocative label of "Answering Protestants" as well as the history of your posting threads that are meant to stir up the Protestant vs. Catholic divide. Jim, in his generosity and in the interest of making Free Republic a site where religious as well as political views can be debated among Conservatives, allows this kind of thing to go on, and your peeps sure aren't shy about taking advantage of that generosity. It would just be nice if you could do a little historical search of the archives so you aren't starting up discussions that have already been beat to death. It's kinda boring.
[emphasis mine]

The whole world hates a "wise guy," boatbums. Read Matthew's About page, and I think you will see that he is trying to educate his reader, and is not "chumming for hits." As far as searching for articles already posted on the topic, those threads (for the sake of inputting commentary) are for the most part dead. And on a topic as important as birth control/abortion, one can never "beat [it] to death."

And "boring" you say? That is an insult to all OPs. This has been an illuminating thread, in my opinion, for those both Catholic and non-Catholic, as knowledgeable Catholics have commented throughout. As a Catholic, I always learn something when they do. (Also, as an aside, I think you're supposed to ping Jim Robinson when you mention him in commentary.)

Some further information on the topic of birth control:
Consequences of Artificial Methods 17. Responsible men can become more deeply convinced of the truth of the doctrine laid down by the Church on this issue if they reflect on the consequences of methods and plans for artificial birth control. Let them first consider how easily this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards. Not much experience is needed to be fully aware of human weakness and to understand that human beings—and especially the young, who are so exposed to temptation—need incentives to keep the moral law, and it is an evil thing to make it easy for them to break that law. Another effect that gives cause for alarm is that a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection... ENCYCLICAL LETTER HUMANAE VITAE OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF PAUL VI http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

67 posted on 01/04/2014 5:03:55 AM PST by mlizzy ("If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic Adoration, abortion would be ended." --Mother Teresa)
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To: verga

Leviticus 12:1-6

I guess the bible does bend the rules in the Catholic’s favor.


68 posted on 01/04/2014 5:42:00 AM PST by impimp
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To: impimp
Leviticus 12:1-6

I guess the bible does bend the rules in the Catholic’s favor.

An explanation of the term, "unclean," from a Jewish perspective.

69 posted on 01/04/2014 5:48:02 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: quadrant

“The rest of the Protestant world - esp Baptists and evangelicals - has nothing to do with the conference or the decisions made there.”

Right. Anglicans and Episcopalians are what my Episcopalian friend calls, “J.V. Catholics”, but consider themselves Protestant for some odd reason. Evangelicals generally shouldn’t be grouped with them on most issues. Baptists are not Protestants.


70 posted on 01/04/2014 5:50:56 AM PST by MayflowerMadam ("If you think healthcare is expensive now, just wait until it's free." P.J. O'Rourke)
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To: matthewrobertolson

Birth control within marriage is one of the very few subjects where all liberal Catholics and many conservative non-Catholic Christians will agree.

But if you search for ‘Evangelicals/Protestants/fundamentalist Christians against birth control within marriage’ you will find that the ones that don’t accept it are invariably very conservative in their political and cultural views about other things. I take it there is a growing group of non-Catholic Christians who are rejecting bc within marriage. The Amish have never accepted bc within marriage either, as well as some of the old order Mennonites, to my understanding.

On the other hand, try to find one member of any faith that is into things like abortion, ‘gay marriage,’ and female clergy that also thinks birth control within marriage shouldn’t be accepted. Seems to me there is a connection there.

Freegards


71 posted on 01/04/2014 5:57:11 AM PST by Ransomed
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Yes, and also evidence that periodic marital abstinence isn’t a contrived Catholic way to get around contraception rules.


72 posted on 01/04/2014 6:24:59 AM PST by impimp
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To: boatbums
So, even the Roman Catholic Church has to admit that some things are the couple's business - between them and God - and not the church's?

The principle of subsidiarity applies. Those at the lowest appropriate level of decision-making generally should have the authority and duty to make those decisions. The reason is that they have the best understanding of the facts at hand.

But prudential decisions (such as whether abstaining from intercourse is justified by truly grave reasons) must always be guided by the natural law, and by the principles laid down by Christ's Church. People and institutions do not have the authority to create their own moral order.

73 posted on 01/04/2014 6:33:19 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: kvanbrunt2
do rubbers kill babies?

A form of Onanism. Satan's attempt to preclude/prevent the birth of David/Mary from Judah's seed. Hated by The God.

74 posted on 01/04/2014 6:33:55 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: Smokin' Joe
I suppose, if you look anywhere you will find that none is without sin, of some sort or another.

No earthly visible church has been pure, except the church at Jerusalem for part of a day. Augustine's knotty problem.

75 posted on 01/04/2014 6:37:29 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: verga
The Moravians were forcibly converted by the Habsburgs to Roman Catholicism from the Eastern Orthodox beliefs of their original conversion to Christianity. They sought a return to the orthodoxy of the two Eastern Orthodox missionaries, Cyril and Methodius, who converted their ancestors in the 9th Century, i.e. early Byzantine-inspired practices:
- liturgy in the language of the people (i.e. Czech)
- having lay people receive communion in both kinds (bread and wine - that is, in Latin, communio sub utraque specie)
- married priests
- elimination of unorthodox Roman novelties such as indulgences and the idea of Purgatory.
Show me the heresy in any of this using the Bible and you may have a point. You won't be able to do so, though.
76 posted on 01/04/2014 6:42:34 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: MacNaughton

Thanks for that information.

Helps me wander through the smoke. hee hee hee


77 posted on 01/04/2014 6:42:44 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: DannyTN

The Church’s teaching is clear ... even if the people disagree with it. Simply posting stats from a poll does not change the Church’s teachings. The OP was focusing on what various churches have approved ... not on what their followers think.


78 posted on 01/04/2014 7:04:01 AM PST by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: Gamecock

Nobody uses the “rythm method” anymore. NFP institutes what is called the Sympto-thermal Method. And the Church teaches that it should not be used selfishly. Do some Catholics do that? Sure. But it’s wrong.

My wife and I used it in order to achieve pregnancy. It worked. We have two beautiful daughters. But now being past the age for having kids we now use it to avoid pregnancy. All within the boundaries set by the Curch.


79 posted on 01/04/2014 7:16:49 AM PST by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

I wasn’t talking about you, but rather about the original poster. but it seems you assumed I was talking about you so I guess the shoe fits.


80 posted on 01/04/2014 7:27:03 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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