Posted on 01/04/2014 1:17:16 PM PST by NYer
Ping!
Very interesting.
Jesus, Luke 11:43
Upon his receiving the honorific of Monsignor, I asked our pastor how many priests gain that title.
He replied, “We have a saying: for every one who wears the purple, four will have the blues.”
As for Pope Francis, does the movie “Shoes of the Fisherman” apply here?
And so begins another round of “Sunnis and Shias”.
PFL
Good. I want to see the ring-kissing go away too. It has nothing to do with religion. It’s from the times when bishops were a secular power.
If someone is truly great, as is Francis, he doesn’t need artificial trappings that once belonged to princes and princesses.
If someone is truly great, as is Francis, he doesn’t need artificial trappings that once belonged to princes and princesses.
Post of the century. You are so right. I think Francis is the best thing to happen to the Catholic Church practically forever. He is so refreshing. I could care less what the haters think. He is perfect!
Bishops are princes and the Pope is a monarch. Manners change over time, but this is not subject to change.
The world has known plenty of humble monarchs, and His Holiness is one of them.
My first reaction was, what, more changes? But on further consideration, I agree with him here.
This was a late development in the Church, stemming from the time when Popes tended to think of themselves as the height of the nobility.
” I want to see the ring-kissing go away too. It has nothing to do with religion. It’s from the times when bishops were a secular power.”
I want more of the hand-kissing since it goes back to BEFORE bishops were a secular power. In the Orthodox Churches it is still the custom in many places to kiss the hands of a priest and bishops. The difference is that with the priest they say
“Father bless” and with the bishop they say “Master bless.”
If you hate to see people kissing a priest’s hands, then don’t watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqUHY0_Cq-c&feature=related
S, we’ll do what you want - not kiss the bishop’s ring - but now everyone will have to kiss the hands of every Catholic and Orthodox priest or bishop they meet. How’s that?
Eliminating careerism?
Term limits in the Catholic Church?
They do have mandatory retirement of either 65 or 75 for priests.
Interesting. I grew up in the New York Archdiocese. Just about every parish pastor was made a monsignor, especially if they had built a new church building or school.
Now, I have lived in California for over 40 years. Monsignors are few and far between out here. In our Diocese of San Bernardino, which is the 4th or 5th largest diocese in the US, there are only a handful of priests with the monsignor title. I only know of two, so perhaps there are a couple more, and one of those two passed away last year at a very old age. We have some very successful parish pastors here who have accomplished a great deal in establishing new parishes. None are monsignors.
” In the Orthodox Churches it is still the custom in many places to kiss the hands of a priest and bishops.”
It’s our custom everywhere so far as I know. Whern we meet a priest or hierarch, we kiss his right hand. We will all line up and kiss the priest’s hand tomorrow after the Divine Liturgy’ He will give us anditheron and bless us. It’s a good thing.
“And so begins another round of “Sunnis and Shias”.”
I quoted Christ’s comments on “respectful greetings” without personal comment.
I agree. It is a good thing.
In the post-Carolingian era, high born laymen would treat bishops and priests who were commoners as if they were servants and inferiors.
One of the ways in which the Church responded was by conferring titles of honor on clergy to insist that titled laity treat their pastors with more respect.
Another way, of course, was by selecting bishops and abbots from among the nobly-born clergy.
I for one am glad that the Church asserted itself by creating its own nobility rather than just allowing secular nobility to dominate and direct the Church as if it were a mere adjunct of earthly politics.
But yes, these titles and distinctions are less meaningful in an era when the ability to deliver blocs of votes is more important than birth as a measure of social power.
The same problem remains, however: how will the Christian clergy develop the proper esprit de corps to challenge the disdain and disrespect they increasingly receive from secular politicians?
Ending outmoded honors does not provide a full answer.
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