Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: markomalley; Kolokotronis; Mrs. Don-o
I exorcise thee, unclean spirit, in the name of the Father + and of the Son, + and of the Holy + Spirit, that thou goest out and depart from this servant of God, N.

To me, that sounds very much as if the rite is treating the newborn child as if he were possessed by the devil. The condition of original sin is not the same as demonic possession.

It would be interesting to learn the Orthodox position on this, since (as far as I understand) they regard original sin rather differently: not as "badness dumped on top" but "sanctification not on yet."

3 posted on 01/08/2014 2:44:03 AM PST by Tax-chick (The superpowers ascribed to "feminists" make me wish I was one.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: Tax-chick; Mrs. Don-o; Kolokotronis
To me, that sounds very much as if the rite is treating the newborn child as if he were possessed by the devil. The condition of original sin is not the same as demonic possession.

Exorcism prayers are used a lot in the extraordinary form where one wouldn't consider them.

For example, look at salt:

P: O salt, creature of God, I exorcise you by the living (+) God, by the true (+) God, by the holy (+) God, by the God who ordered you to be poured into the water by Elisha the prophet, so that its life-giving powers might be restored. I exorcise you so that you may become a means of salvation for believers, that you may bring health of soul and body to all who make use of you, and that you may put to flight and drive away from the places where you are sprinkled; every apparition, villainy, turn of devilish deceit, and every unclean spirit; adjured by him who will come to judge the living and the dead and the world by fire.

Or water:

O water, creature of God, I exorcise you in the name of God the Father (+) Almighty, and in the name of Jesus (+) Christ His Son, our Lord, and in the power of the Holy (+) Spirit. I exorcise you so that you may put to flight all the power of the enemy, and be able to root out and supplan t that enemy with his apostate angels, through the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will come to judge the living and the dead and the world by fire.

Or candles:

O candles, I exorcise you in the name of God (+) the Father Almighty, in the name of Jesus (+ ) Christ his Son, our Lord, and in the name of the Holy (+) Sp irit. May God uproot and cast out from these objects, all power of the devil, all attacks of the unclean spirit, and all deceptions of Satan, so that they may bring health of mind and body to all who use them. We ask this through the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is coming to judge both the living and the dead and the world by fire.

Or St Benedict medals:

I exorcise (this medal / these medals) in the name of God, the Father Almighty, who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them. May God uproot and expel from (this object / these objects) all power of the adve rsary, all attacks of the devil, and all deceptions of Satan, so that (it / they) may bring health of mind and body to all who use (it / them). We make this prayer in the name of the Almighty (+) Father, of Jesus (+) Christ, his Son our Lord, and of the Holy (+) Spirit, the Paraclete. We pray also with love for our Lord Jesus Christ, who will come to judge the living and the dead, and to purify the world by fire.

And so on...

4 posted on 01/08/2014 2:58:34 AM PST by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies ]

To: Tax-chick

This link seems to answer your question:

http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7078


8 posted on 01/08/2014 3:45:47 AM PST by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies ]

To: Tax-chick

“To me, that sounds very much as if the rite is treating the newborn child as if he were possessed by the devil.”

In a sense that child is possessed by the devil since he is the prince of the world and that child has not received the grace of baptism.


11 posted on 01/08/2014 4:17:28 AM PST by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies ]

To: Tax-chick
It would be interesting to learn the Orthodox position on this,

The Byzantine Rite of baptism has some pretty graphic exorcism prayers in it, IIRC.

15 posted on 01/08/2014 5:29:59 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies ]

To: Tax-chick; markomalley; Kolokotronis; Mrs. Don-o

To see what the effect of dropping most of the exorcism prayers at baptism was, let us ask ourselves this question: “Is a man baptized after 1969 more likely or less likely to revert to godlessness at some point in his life, compared to the man baptized prior to 1969?”


17 posted on 01/08/2014 5:33:17 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies ]

To: Tax-chick; annalex; Mount Athos; markomalley; vladimir998

You’ve received some very accurate responses to your question TC. I hasten to point out, however, that differing concepts of the Sin of Adam/Ancestral Sin/Original Sin have little to do with dealing with demons at baptism.

Here’s a link to our Baptism rite. You’ll see that Ancestral/Original sin really doesn’t enter into it. but dealing with demons and airy and invisible specters does. We take demons very seriously, TC.

http://www.goarch.org/chapel/liturgical_texts/baptism


22 posted on 01/08/2014 7:42:24 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies ]

To: Tax-chick

There are spiritual realities involved here. Combat in the spiritual realm is a reality, and man’s nature has a spiritual component. It is absolutely necessary that the Church, speaking as the body of Christ, claim what is hers and preserve it pure and safe.


25 posted on 01/08/2014 8:30:26 AM PST by Romulus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies ]

To: Tax-chick

All unbaptized children are not necessarily possessed of the devil. But they are open to possession because of original sin. So it does no harm to use these rites.

Presumably, as Monsignor Pope says, the Sacrament of Baptism will do the job anyway, but it does no harm to include specific language in the surrounding rite.


27 posted on 01/08/2014 9:03:05 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson