Some Biblical Truths

“And the Lord saw his faith..”

This is merely a conflation of faith and works, which is nowhere supported in the scripture, which clearly differentiates between the two, and places justification not in the “showing,” though that comes naturally to all those who believe, but BEFORE anything is shown:

Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

This circumcision, or this “showing,” is merely the sign of that which he possessed prior to it already:

Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised:

Thus, the faith that is credited is seen in the heart, and is had before the act, though the act is inevitable.

Another problem with your post is that you have no place for grace, but seem to place EVERYTHING within a fantastical, and horrifically false, belief in there being an internal goodness or power in man to believe or to do anything good in regard to religion. It is this opinion that I find to be the most disgusting of them all, the most vain, the most self-righteous, this idea that we have some goodness in us, and can do some good in and of ourselves, in the things that pertain to God and our salvation. The scripture is quite clear, number one, that no one is good:

Luk_18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

No one is capable of even seeking God or understanding God:

Rom_3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

And that is because we are enemies of God, by nature dead in sin and the children of the devil:

“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”
(Eph 2:1-3)

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Therefore, it is necessary then that we, who have no native goodness of our own, must receive our faith from outside of ourselves, from the God who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure:

1Co_12:3 ... no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

And this has never been different, but even the Hebrews, who experienced the miracles of God in ways we cannot even imagine, could not see, hear, or appreciate them in ANY WAY until God gave them a heart to perceive, and ears to hear:

“And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land; The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles: Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.”
(Deu 29:2-4)

Thus salvation is, and always has been, a product of the work of God on the soul of man, which then believes, which then does works:

Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Joh_6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Therefore we safely conclude, that both faith and works must bow to grace, and all your pretty ideas about your own abilities and internal righteousness is worth a dung heap.

**Rom_3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.**

Including you possibly?? (just thinking of your humble screen name)

**This circumcision, or this “showing,” is merely the sign of that which he possessed prior to it already:**

How far back...before he moved a muscle in Haran? He was still being tested for faith in a way you or I would never dream of, AFTER circumcision:

“And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou anything unto him: for NOW I KNOW that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.” Gen. 22:12

Acts 2:38...is it from heaven, or of men?

Don’t blame me that it is there for you and I to obey, not to discount or ignore entirely. Have you chosen not to obey God’s will (is Acts 2:38 HIS will for you? Peter says it is.)

“But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to the second, and said likewise, And he answered and said, I go sir: and went not. Whether of them twain did the will of his father?....” Matt. 21:28-31

Your references: (Eph 2:1-3), Col 2:13, Eph_2:10, were written to people that had already been born again (saints).

**Thus salvation is, and always has been, a product of the work of God on the soul of man, which then believes, which then does works:**

What works ...your own works? Baptism in the name of Jesus is not our own works. HE ordained it for remission of sins. But, maybe you don’t happen to believe that.

**work of God on the soul of man, which then believes, which then does works**

Like Mark 16:16? He that believeth (no comma) and is baptized (no comma) shall be saved. (which harmonizes nicely with Luke 24:47 and Acts 2:38)

Acts 2:38 is a missing instruction manual for many, as it was for me. The thing is, people don’t realize that it’s missing, because it isn’t taught to them, and so it goes unnoticed. Just as Josiah was shocked to hear the words read from the lost, then found, book of the Law, that he was unaware existed; so too are souls startled that God would require obedience to Acts 2:38

**your pretty ideas about your own abilities and internal righteousness**

Still classy, GPH.

**4:41:21 AM by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)**

Bet you were in a nice warm place at whatever time zone you live in. At that time, I was out in -30 wind chill, headlight strapped on, getting the 18 wheeler pre-tripped, load secured, and ready to roll. You should try it...it really builds temperence.

“And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou anything unto him: for NOW I KNOW that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.” Gen. 22:12”

God is omniscient, and so knew, well in advance, that Abraham had “fear” of the Lord, or would have it, and that this “test” would play out exactly as it did; and far in advance of what He would do within and for Abraham, from before the foundations of the world even. Thus the interpretation is not that God, who was ignorant, is “now” aware. Rather, God here speaks after the manner of men, which He does frequently, and thus, the Jews understand this verse as meaning: “I have made known”, in other words, made it known to Abraham, or to others, and, indeed, all the readers of the scripture even to this day, that Abraham has proper fear of God (Saadiah Gaon, Apud Aben Ezram, in ver. 1., qted in John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible, Gen 22:12).

Had Abraham died, perhaps, before that incident, or before being circumcised, he would have been well justified, upon the basis of the faith that existed prior to it. That is the clear meaning of Paul’s verse, which allows no other interpretation.

This is the only way that men may be called righteous. That is, by faith. Not by their works, as Paul, who we can certainly call righteous, declares himself wretched:

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Therefore, righteousness is attributed to where there is faith, and not by where there is works, though faith and works always join together, where there is time for it. (Unlike for the Thief on the cross).

” Have you chosen not to obey God’s will”

I wasn’t sure what you were before, but since you’re apparently a Papist, I get to quote Augustine at you:

“Can you say, ‘We will first walk in His righteousness, and will observe His judgments, and will act in a worthy way, so that He will give His grace to us’? But what good would you evil people do? And how would you do those good things, unless you were yourselves good? But Who causes people to be good? Only He Who said, ‘And I will visit them to make them good,’ and, ‘I will put my Spirit within you, and will cause you to walk in my righteousness, and to observe my judgments, and do them’ (Ezek.36:27). Are you asleep? Can’t you hear Him saying, ‘I will cause you to walk, I will make you to observe,’ lastly, ‘I will make you to do’? Really, are you still puffing yourselves up? We walk, true enough, and we observe, and we do; but it is God Who He makes us to walk, to observe, to do. This is the grace of God making us good; this is His mercy going before us.”
Augustine - Against Two Letters of the Pelagians, 4:15

“Your references: (Eph 2:1-3), Col 2:13, Eph_2:10, were written to people that had already been born again (saints).”

Which is irrelevant, and it doesn’t appear you are even capable of telling me what they mean then, if you think they mean anything at all.

“What works ...your own works?”

God’s works, ultimately:

Php_2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Though I both “will” and “do,” it is only a result of God working in me for that purpose, as He has saved my soul, born me anew by the power of His Spirit, and has given me the ability that I might obey the law of God “in my mind,” albeit I fail in the flesh quite frequently, with Paul.

All of this would have been impossible, had God not given me His Spirit, and made me a new creature in Christ:

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

And I did not do this to myself. It was God who created me, regenerating my spirit, and giving me new life, so that I may be properly called “His WORKMANSHIP unto good works.”

“You should try it...it really builds temperence”

Apparently, it does not build you humility. You started thumping your chest about how great you are for being sprinkled as a baby, almost the same moment I mentioned the dread thing known as Grace. And if we are saved by grace, it is not of merits, but is, by definition, a gratuitous gift from God, given despite our wickedness.

Well, you didn’t touch this:

Acts 2:38...it it from heaven, or of men?

or this:

(your words)**work of God on the soul of man, which then believes, which then does works**

Like Mark 16:16? He that believeth (no comma) and is baptized (no comma) shall be saved. (which harmonizes nicely with Luke 24:47 and Acts 2:38)

**God is omniscient, and so knew, well in advance, that Abraham had “fear” of the Lord, or would have it, and that this “test” would play out exactly as it did;..**

So God goes about, making people do things that they REALLY don’t need to do....

Your commentary folks have a right to THEIR opinion. (I supposed I have offended you....again)

**Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.**

Paul wrote those things “To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints...”. They were already born again. He reminded them at times of their conversion:

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism INto death..”. Rom. 6:3,4

Baptized into his death?? What happened at his death,...his blood was shed. That is why, not Zuriel, or any other BELIEVER in the command of Acts 2:38, would deny that baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for the remission of sins. If you haven’t been baptized in his name, you don’t have his blood on you.

“But GOD BE THANKED, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have OBEYED from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness”. Rom. 6:17,18

The context of the epistles is laid out plainly, in that they are written to those that are born again; hence the salutations to the saints at the beginnings.

**since you’re apparently a Papist**

Nice words by Augustine; as though he’s talking to born again folk just like Paul did in his epistles.

**Which is irrelevant, and it doesn’t appear you are even capable of telling me what they mean then, if you think they mean anything at all.**

**You started thumping your chest about how great you are for being sprinkled as a baby, almost the same moment I mentioned the dread thing known as Grace.**

And you want to judge humility?

Peter tells you (and everyone) that you need to repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sins. Are you offended at him as well? Are you from the ‘shoot the messenger’ school of thought?

There is no mention of the Ethiopian eunuch being taught the importance of water baptism, yet when they came by a ‘certain water’, the eunuch asked “what doth hinder me to be baptized. And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God......and was baptized”. Acts 8:36-38.

Sounds a lot like Mark 16:16. “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned”. If you don’t believe Acts 2:38, then don’t obey it.
Peter demanded the immediate baptism of the household of Cornelius. The tortured Paul and Silas, promptly baptized the keeper of the prison, and his entire household. Paul commanded proper baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus, which was done right after those in Ephesus being told of it’s importance.

It is by the grace of God that he sends preachers to preach to the lost, telling them about God’s plan of salvation; about how God made a way of escape from the penalty of sin. Acts 2:38 is His conversion plan, not mine, or anybody else’s.

And so, I ask you again: Is it from heaven, or of men?

“Well, you didn’t touch this:”

Of course I didn’t, it is irrelevant. I am absolutely indifferent to it.

“Your commentary folks have a right to THEIR opinion. (I supposed I have offended you....again)”

You do a lot of mind reading. You haven’t offended me at all.

” If you haven’t been baptized in his name, you don’t have his blood on you.”

IOW, the Thief is in hell and Cornelius was improperly regenerated by the Holy Spirit. He didn’t follow the Roman Catholic sacrament system:

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?”
(Act 10:44-47)

Baptism is a sign and seal of a spiritual act that occurs invisibly, but it in no way causes regeneration. Both the thief and Cornelius were doing great without baptism, though to be baptized is not to be neglected; it is meant to be viewed spiritually, as representing spiritual things; it is the same as taking on Christ publicly, as a statement of faith and conversion, which in the case of the Thief and Cornelius, already occurred without it the moment they believed. Such is how the Jews used baptism for those who were converts, and some of the sects even required baptism just to move from one sect to another. It is an act of conversion, which only those who have not been converted, would neglect.

“The context of the epistles is laid out plainly, in that they are written to those that are born again;”

Why do you waste my time with this worthless spam? At least bother explaining how the context in any way makes a difference. At least attempt to make some kind of exegesis.

**Of course I didn’t, it is irrelevant. I am absolutely indifferent to it.**

Just like you’re indifferent to Act 2:38. You must be indifferent, you won’t say, yea or nay, if “..be baptized EVERY ONE of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the REMISSION of SINS..” is from heaven or of men. IT IS obvious to me that you don’t believe that it means EXACTLY what it says, or that maybe you consider it to be ‘worthless spam’.

Kinda like Obama using his reliable excuse: Nobody told me about it.

**IOW, the Thief is in hell**

Jesus wasn’t dead yet. The Law was still in force: Without the death of the testator a testament is of none effect.

**and Cornelius was improperly regenerated by the Holy Spirit.**

Did Peter forgo water baptism? And they were immediately baptized in the name of the Lord. There is one rebirth.

**Why do you waste my time with this worthless spam? At least bother explaining how the context in any way makes a difference. At least attempt to make some kind of exegesis.**

Well, give me your address, since you don’t mind your mail being read by people other than who it is addressed to.

The apostles were told to go and preach the gospel to every creature, but NOT until the Spirit was poured out.

Acts is the only only book that shows the verbatum preaching to lost souls, since this ‘new and living way’ was established by the outpouring of the Holy Ghost.

The epistles were written to saints. That’s the context. Unsaved should be instructed that the content there applies to them when they too are born again: Romans(1:7), 1 Corinthian(1:2), 2 Corinthians(1:1), Galatians(1:2; ‘churches’, where you find saints), Ephesians(1:1), Philippians(1:1), Colossians(1:1), 1 Thessalonians(1:1;’church’), 2 Thessalonians(1:1; ‘church’).

In 1&2 Timothy and Titus, Paul gives instruction on church doctrine, guidelines for the church hierarchy, church standards of behavior, etc. Not exactly evangelistic stuff.

Hebrews gives excellent teaching to the Hebrew Christians.
James writes to the ‘brethern’.
Peter writes to the ‘Elect’ (sanctified by the Spirit).
John writes to ‘my little children’.
Jude writes to ‘them that are sanctified’.

Is that worthless spam?

**Baptism is a sign and seal of a spiritual act that occurs invisibly,**

That’s right, the blood is applied to the soul when one is ‘buried with him’.

**but it in no way causes regeneration.**

That doesn’t match Acts 2:38 “FOR the REMISSION of SINS”.

One last time: Is it from heaven, or of men?

“Did Peter forgo water baptism? And they were immediately baptized in the name of the Lord. There is one rebirth.”

As I said, baptism is not to be neglected, but not for the reasons you think; the fact that regeneration preceded baptism puts to death baptismal regeneration, which you preach, and therefore must put baptism in its proper place. It is conversion which results in the remission of sins, not baptism, which is only a sign and seal of conversion or induction into the body of Christ.

“Jesus wasn’t dead yet. The Law was still in force: Without the death of the testator a testament is of none effect.”

Are you trying to say that the Thief is in hell, or that he was saved by the law of Moses and not by Christ?

“Well, give me your address, since you don’t mind your mail being read by people other than who it is addressed to.”

I have a feeling I’m talking to a crazier than usual Papist.

“The epistles were written to saints. That’s the context. Unsaved should be instructed that the content there applies to them “

Notice, this will be the third time, that I ask you to actually apply some exegesis to the text in question. Just by saying “It does not apply to the unsaved” does not tell me what you think it is even saying, if anything at all. Just spamming me with a bunch of irrelevant statements (all of which you repeated before) doesn’t address anything I said or asked you to do.

The thief was still under the Law. The Holy Ghost was not yet given for Jesus was not yet glorified; which took place after the resurrection. Now we live under: If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his (remember how Paul addressed the Roman saints (or any saint for that matter) in chapter 8....But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit.

**It is conversion which results in the remission of sins, not baptism, which is only a sign and seal of conversion or induction into the body of Christ.**

It is the grace of God that provided the atonement that God required, but by the Lord’s own command the individual doesn’t receive that remission until baptism (buried with him in baptism):

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..

Luke 24:47 And that REPENTANCE and REMISSION of SINS should be preached in his name, BEGINNING at Jerusalem.

And it BEGAN in Jerusalem with Peter preaching Christ and him crucified. The listeners replied: Men and brethern, what shall we do? And Peter said unto them: REPENT, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the REMISSION of SINS, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

**Just by saying “It does not apply to the unsaved” does not tell me what you think it is even saying, if anything at all.**

That’s just pure dodge on your part. If the concept of letters written ‘to the saints’ is that hard for you to grasp, then you truly fit the apostle’s description of ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

**doesn’t address anything I said or asked you to do.**

Talk about spam!

Is it from heaven, or of men? (Maybe you should just rewrite Acts 2:38 in your own Bible)

“The thief was still under the Law. The Holy Ghost was not yet given for Jesus was not yet glorified; which took place after the resurrection.”

A certain measure of the Holy Spirit had always been with the church:

Luk_1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Luk_1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

And the Apostles performed their miracles with the Holy Spirit within them.

It is by the ministration of the Holy Ghost that anyone is even able to come to faith:

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered [his confession] and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

The difference between before and after Christ’s crucifixtion, is that the Holy Spirit, afterwards, was now given “to all flesh” in a fuller, more powerful way, to men, women, and children, who operated in all the miraculous gifts, including all the ordinary ones, which are promised to all those who believed, for the great work of establishing Christianity.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

When Christ declared that:

Joh_11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

He was not saying “but only after I die, in the meantime you will be judged by the law and will go to hell, as ‘accursed is anyone who does not do all that is in the law” it is a promise applicable just as readily then as it was afterwards.

And so the thief is not in hell, and God was not cheating when He gave Cornelius the Holy Spirit and saved Him prior to baptism.

“That’s just pure dodge on your part. If the concept of letters written ‘to the saints’ is that hard for you to grasp,”

It’s not hard for me to grasp. It’s just that I don’t think you know how to connect thoughts together or sentences for a single, comprehensive argument that actually gives a meaning. Whatever you think those verses mean, it is locked within your mind, and that’s only assuming that you even have anything in your mind at all.

I certainly thank you for your civilized replies.

**What is the purpose of the Law?**

“Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye all”.. (remember, Paul’s writing to the brethern at the church in Galatia. They’ve already been born again)..”are the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ. FOR as many of you as have been BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST have PUT ON CHRIST.” Gal. 3:24-27

There seems to be this obsession to show absolutely NO effort by the individual in order for one to have saving faith. Repentance and confession of faith with your mouth is a physical effort. But, that’s acceptable; water baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins (ordained by none other than Jesus Christ) is ‘works of the law’.

Long before the Law was this: “By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, BY WHICH HE OBTAINED WITNESS that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts..”. Heb. 11:4

Beginning with Adam and Eve, the faith was the promised ‘seed’, but, the sacrifices were required under covenant with God. Jesus Christ offered the long awaited perfect sacrifice. “Without the shedding of blood is no remission”. Heb. 9:22

Yet, by his very commands, remission of sins (which is by his blood) is completed in baptism in his NAME. THAT’S when his blood is applied to the individual’s soul. Else, why would he command it to be done exactly that way? IF you believe his words, then you will obey his words:

“By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, OBEYED..”. Heb. 11:8

Everyone is called to obey Acts 2:38. It’s a ‘place’ many have heard about, but are afraid to go to. Many more haven’t even heard about it. But, after ‘going there’ one receives an ‘inheritance’ (the Holy Ghost).

**A certain measure of the Holy Spirit had always been with the church:**

Yes, the Spirit was upon many through the years, such as Samson, King Saul, Elijah, Elisha, etc. Some were ‘filled’, but it was not a 24/7/365 thing (except possibly John the baptist).

And no argument with this:

**The difference between before and after Christ’s crucifixtion, is that the Holy Spirit, afterwards, was now given “to all flesh” in a fuller, more powerful way, to men, women, and children, who operated in all the miraculous gifts, including all the ordinary ones, which are promised to all those who believed, for the great work of establishing Christianity.**

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 15:7

**And so the thief is not in hell,**

Of course not, Jesus hadn’t died yet: “But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power UPON earth to forgive sins..”. Luke 5:24

**God was not cheating when He gave Cornelius the Holy Spirit and saved Him prior to baptism.**

Cheating? LOL! No, but he was operating with a preacher, raised in the LAW, that almost had to be dragged to Gentile Cornelius’ house. Peter wasn’t alone, either. The others tagging along hadn’t received the vision, and were probably hesitant to be doing that mission. They just may have tried to stop Peter from baptizing those folks. But, God made sure there would be no mistake made. And even after that, those preachers were disagreeable with Paul later on, concerning matters of the Law.

So, Peter baptized them pronto. It’s water and Spirit rebirth, just like the Lord told Nicodemas.

Do you frown on people that put their pants on before their socks, or vice versa?

**Joh_11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.**

Do you believe his ALL his words? (Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38, to name a few)

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