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To: vladimir998

Your arguments are doctrinal and not historical. The Catholic Church did indeed sell indulgences whether or not you call them donations in kind or sales they were not just given away without remuneration. They clearly were not banned by all the Popes since they were originated by a Pope.

Infallibility is God’s and the Holy Spirit’s but you are saying that the Pope has a special direct line to God in “narrow circumstances” but your analogy to fact is idiotic. The Pope claims infallibility based on a belief that he receives the Word of God because of his office. In fact, he is a priest and a man and therefore inherently flawed. You are making the analogy between a fact i.e. that George Washington was the first President of the United States and the doctrine that the Pope has special insight into God’s will that no one else has. This is a matter of faith and doctrine and not fact. It’s your right to believe it and mine to not.

The infallibility of the Bible is not the same as the infallibility of a man - the Pope unless you believe that the Pope is more than a man. You are equating the Pope with the Holy Spirit. I don’t think you will find a Pope who claims this.

Please go back to the original article which seems to attack Protestants as the origin of this discussion. It was not Protestants attacking the Catholic Church.

The Bishop of Rome was first among EQUALS among the Bishop, not their Pope or Pontifex Maximus so it was not unusual to seek his guidance in disputes but not in terms of having to follow his edicts.

You are free to argue the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin to your heart’s content but the true threats to Christianity are those who would divide us, the atheists, Muslims and Communists. I personally accept Catholics as Christians and hope for the same in return.


70 posted on 01/28/2014 12:48:10 AM PST by JMS
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To: JMS; vladimir998
I personally accept Catholics as Christians and hope for the same in return. - JMS

You are indeed a Christian (assuming that you've been baptized), as demonstrated in the "Middle Ages" portion of the article. But that does not mean that you are in no need of doctrinal or moral correction.
115 posted on 01/28/2014 10:55:55 AM PST by matthewrobertolson
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To: JMS

“Your arguments are doctrinal and not historical.”

Nope. That’s why I demand evidence from history from those who make the accusation that the Church sold indulgences. I have yet to be shown any such evidence by anyone.

“The Catholic Church did indeed sell indulgences whether or not you call them donations in kind or sales they were not just given away without remuneration.”

Again, false. The Church never sold indulgences. Unscrupulous people might have, but the Church never did and in fact officially opposed the sale in its canon law.

“They clearly were not banned by all the Popes since they were originated by a Pope.”

Again, false.

“The Bishop of Rome was first among EQUALS among the Bishop, not their Pope or Pontifex Maximus so it was not unusual to seek his guidance in disputes but not in terms of having to follow his edicts.”

Again, you might want to read Soloviev’s book. He was Russian Orthodox and he clearly knew more about the subject than you appear to.


199 posted on 01/29/2014 4:52:32 AM PST by vladimir998
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