Maybe like this?
Posted on 04/25/2014 8:17:25 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
If Pope Francis really said that, then as to whether the Church is governed by a manifest heretic, all bets would be off.
Would Fr Lombardi please clarify at least that the Pope definitely didn't say that?
Someone left a comment on my blog saying it is 'impossible that he said that'.
It's not impossible. Before he became Pope, remember that Francis was a Cardinal, before that a Bishop, so, in fact, anything's possible.
A Norbertine brother once said to me that every major crisis in the Church has been about the Real Presence. And the crisis of the Church is a crisis of Bishops.
Indeed, the first crisis among Christ and the Apostles (though it was not a crisis for Jesus) was in the immediate wake of the Eucharistic discourse. Many disciples left Jesus after that and it was left to Peter (first Il Papa) to speak up on the Apostles behalf, saying, 'Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the message of eternal life.' That's kind of like what giving religious assent to the incredible is.
If this Pope doesn't believe that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, Humanity and Divinity of Our Lord, then that wouldn't just explain things a little. That would explain everything.
If he didn't believe that doctrine, or openly opposed it, that would pose serious problems for Catholics across the World, because that would make the Pope outside of Communion with the Divine Head of the Church, Jesus Christ. The implications are terrifying.
The Vatican must, at least, confirm that the Pope did not say that because if Pope Francis did say that, the Pope shouldn't be receiving Holy Communion.
Jesus also said He was bread, the shepherd, the vine and the door.
And only one is not a metaphor?
I don’t think so.
God is clear in Scripture that blood is NOT to be eaten. Jesus could not have had His disciples eat it or commanded them to eat it (sin) or He would not have been sinless. He would have sinned in making others sin, thereby rendering Himself incapable of being the spotless lamb of God.
Reading it as a metaphor and recognizing the act as symbolic is the only way to read it without twisting or distorting or disobeying the rest of Scripture.
The theological gymnastics needed to justify Jesus commanding others to sin is staggering.
Jesus says right here that it's a metaphor, that eating does not impart life, the Spirit does. The flesh is NO HELP AT ALL.
Eating does not do it.
He is the door. With hinges literally on his side.
Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.
And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
DB is only saying what Jesus said when he says it's a ceremony in remembrance.
And it is the fruit of the vine that Jesus gave His disciples to drink. He says so HIMSELF.
Bread and wine in remembrance. Just what we've been saying.
Maybe like this?
You are in error. First there is no re-enacting of the crucifixion. You are reliving the same crucifixion at that single moment in time. There is no resacrificing taken place. Second he didn’t just say eat and drink in remembrance of him. He clearly stated that this is his flesh and blood it is what caused all but 12 followers to get up and leave and one of those 12 who stayed did not believe as Jesus said and its not hard to figure out who that was. A larger point is that Jesus did this multiple times before his death and after his resurrection. Is he now re-sacrifing himself each and every time especially when he plainly stated that is his body and blood in scripture?
One additional point, we do not pretend that this is flesh and blood, we fully accept that this is his flesh and blood under the appearance of bread and wine. Why? If we are to have life we must do so and accept it as such even though the bread and wine still look/feel/taste like bread and wine. Have you forgotten that prior to is first Eucharist/Communion he has lead up to that moment through the miracles by just asking people to believe he could do it? He did not reveal to all the full truth as of yet. And if He can raise the dead yet cannot have his flesh and blood look exactly like bread and wine and require us to simply believe as he did with those he performed miracles.? Your not looking at scripture very well.
Jesus also said that if we ate or drank, we’d live forever.
What’s with all the Catholics dying then?
If you’re going to be literal, be consistent.
He is referring to this: "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth, out of which thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return."
The body dies, the spirit lives forever.
"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you."
These words of His are unequivocal: "Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you."
Jesus is the bread of life.
you said:
“Bread and wine in remembrance. Just what we’ve been saying.”
now all you’ve got to do is rationalize away that Christ said “My Body” and you said “bread” and your good to go...
For the Greater Glory of God
Wrong. The work on the cross is DONE. Jesus said *It is FINISHED*, and the curtain in the temple was torn in two.
He breathed His last.
He is now seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven. He is not still being sacrifices because if He hadn't died, salvation would not have come.
It's only in His death that He conquered death. It's not His dying that saves us, it's His death and resurrection.
Utterly false and slanderous.
Utterly false and slanderous.
So now it’s figurative when it suits the church?
That is very poor hermeneutics.
Either the passage is literal or it’s not. It’s not on again off again depending on how one wants to interpret it to support their pet doctrines.
If it’s literal eating in the body, consistency demands literal living for ever in the body.
If it’s spiritual living forever, it’s spiritual eating.
Is the mass not a continuation and participation in the death of Jesus?
Then they are killing Him every mass.
Besides, it’s His death on the tree that fulfilled Scripture.
Sacrificing Him on an altar doesn’t do a thing.
The Mass is an unbloody remembrance.
Christ said: Do this in remembrance of me.”
If one does not believe his word, he is none of his. He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err. 8 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Heaven is outside time, therefore everything is eternally present, at once "done" and "not yet done" and "still being done".
And Hebrews says that Jesus is now in the heavenly Holy of Holies -- which, it says, he will leave "at the end of the age" -- offering his own blood to the Father on our behalf.
Utterly false and slanderous.
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