Is Pluralism a Threat to Catholic Survival?

Crisis Magazine ^ | May 7, 2014 | James Kalb

[NYer]

Ping!

[Arthur McGowan]

The purpose of Catholicism isn’t to occupy any particular kind of place in society, or to “have a voice,” or even to “survive.”

The purpose of Catholicism is to teach the faith, celebrate the Eucharist and other sacraments, and to unite people in love with God.

Sometimes, in carrying out her mission, the Church must die, and that means both institutionally and individually.

What does not do anybody any good is giving Communion to Nancy Pelosi. That’s just a mortal sin.

[ansel12]

American Catholics have given up on the dream of a Catholic society.

No they haven't, they still support the left and immigration.

[DesertRhino]

Treason. An American should aspire to a society faithful to the founders vision and to the Constitution. And be thankful that this is a society in which a Catholic can thrive and be free.
It’s quite different than aspiring to a Catholic society that scowls at pluralism and begrudgingly realizes that protestants must have a place.

Want a Catholic society? I give you Mexico and Italy.

[NYer]

Want a Catholic society? I give you Mexico and Italy.

Actually, the best example would be Malta ..

The Constitution of Malta declares Catholicism as the state religion although entrenched provisions for the freedom of religion are made. Freedom House and the CIA World Factbook report that 98% of the population is Catholic.

[Bayard]

You do know that Mexico and Italy are heavily identified secular-socialist states correct?

The Mexican persecution of Catholics was pretty severe, and the country has never recovered from it.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Just today our assistant pastor, Fr. Manuel Perez, told us a bit about his grandfather, who survived the Cristero War in Mexico. When he was a child, his grandfather took him to see the sites near his own home where priests and nuns were shot dead, where churches were dynamited, and where catechists had to hide their Bibles, prayer books and hymnals.

As long ago as the Revolution of Ayutla (1854), nearly all of the top figures in the government were fierce anticlericals. In 1917, a new Constitution was enacted, hostile to Church and religion, which promulgatedthe same kind of draconian anti-clericalism that characterized the French and Russian Revolutions. The 1917 Constitution

• outlawed teaching by the Church,
• gave control over Church matters to the state,
• put all Church property at the disposal of the state,
• outlawed religious orders,
• outlawed foreign born priests,
• gave states the power to limit or eliminate priests in their territory,
• deprived priests of the right to vote or hold office,
• prohibited Catholic organizations which advocated public policy,
• prohibited religious publications from commenting on public policy,
• prohibited clergy from religious celebrations and from wearing clerical garb outside of a church and
• deprived citizens of the right to a trial for violations of these provisions.

Many of the anti-Church provisions were not evenly enforced past the 1930's, but they were not eliminated from the Mexican constitution until 1992.

Mexican society and politics have been profoundly shaped by over a century and a half of government hostility toward the Catholic Church.

So: not a good example of a "Catholic society".

[verga]

With few exceptions, American Catholics have given up on the dream of a Catholic society. Instead, they have come to aspire to a seat at the table: a respected position in public life that lets them bring their insights and values into public discussion within a pluralistic system.

Right now I would settle for a Christian society. By that I mean one that doesn't go around killing based on the color of skin, particular faith (or no faith), Country of origin, or appearance. One that promotes equal opportunity at the beginning and doesn't demand equality of outcome at the end.

Yeah I know I am dreaming.

[Salvation]

PLURALISM, THEOLOGICAL

 

The multiplicity of theological positions present within the Catholic Church. These positions vary according to which premises or postulates are used in reflecting on the sources of revelation, according to the methodology employed, and according to the cultural tradition within which theology does its speculation. On the first bases, the two principal philosophical premises are the Platonic, stressed in Augustinianaism; and the Aristotelian, emphasized in Thomism. On the second level, theologies differ in terms of their mainly biblical, or doctrinal, or historical, or pastoral methodology. And on the third basis, the culture of a people helps to shape the theology they develop, as between the more mystical East and the more practical West, or the more reflective Mediterranean and the more scientific Anglo-Saxon. The Church not only permits these diversities but encourages them, always assuming that theologians who are Catholic are also respectful of the rule of faith and obedient to the magisterium of the hierarchy under the Bishop of Rome.

All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.

[Salvation]

PLURALISM, DOCTRINAL

 

The theory that a Catholic may legitimately hold a doctrinal position that is in contradiction to what the Church reaches, either as defined or by her ordinary universal magisterium. This would mean that contradictory doctrines in faith or morals could be professed by different persons, all equally in good standing in the Catholic Church. Doctrinal pluralism was condemned by the First Vatican Council, 1869-70 (Denzinger 3042, 3043).

All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.

[Zionist Conspirator]

The basic problem is that pluralism can’t possibly be pluralist. It proposes a particular form of society with a definite system of law and custom. That form of society bases its unique legitimacy on the claim that all other forms of society, including Catholic society, are at odds with freedom, justice, and the dignity of man, because they suppress and discriminate against reasonable opinions on ultimate issues. In good conscience those who are in charge of such a society must do everything they can to keep such views from affecting social life and thereby causing oppression. They do so by insisting that views such as Catholicism stop being social views and become strictly private opinions. So pluralism turns out to be as unitary and dedicated to suppressing alternatives as any other outlook. The difference is that it believes it can legitimately avoid having to argue for its own particularities by claiming it allows all views to flourish freely.

Bravo! About time someone said this.

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Treason? LOL, talk about hyberbole.

trea·son ˈtrēzən/Submit noun the crime of betraying one's country.

Thinking that it would be nice if all your countrymen shared your faith hardly fits the bill.

"Want a Catholic society? I give you Mexico and Italy."

Want a Protestant society? I give you Scandanavia, England and Scotland. There is no such thing in the west anymore as a society defined by the religion of its members.

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

FYI, American Protestants, through the KKK, offered thousands of dollars to the socialist government of Mexico to fight the Cristeros.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I didn’t know that. Disturbing.

[ansel12]

Better yet, I know how American Catholics vote, and just like I said, they support the left and immigration.

[D-fendr]

Better yet, I know how American Catholics vote, and just like I said, they support the left and immigration.

You know how hispanics and younger males and especially females vote. Regardless of their religious affiliation.

You're boasting about demographics, not religious affiliation.

[ansel12]

I’m not boasting about anything, I merely know how Catholics vote, and always have voted.

[D-fendr]

And how do young black female protestants vote?