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The Moral and Immoral Both Alienated from God (Celebrating 2000 Threads!)
Monergism ^ | 12/18/2013 | John Hendryx

Posted on 06/09/2014 6:36:17 PM PDT by Gamecock

Both moral and immoral people are alienated from God. God is offended by both. This may be counter-intuitive but moral people are lost because of their "goodness". Why? It is often the case that goodness keeps people from God. In fact many people avoid Jesus by avoiding sin because they are trying to become their own saviors ... attempting to justify themselves. But the gospel is neither moralism nor relativism so it is equally offensive to the moral and the irreligious. But Christ calls us to repent of both our good and bad works, for we have no righteousness of our own.

As an example of Jesus dislike of people who trusted in their own morality, Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, 'We see,' your guilt remains." (John 9:41) Those who think God will accept us based on goodness actually understand only part of the truth. Yes, God loves what is good. But since He also loves the truth, we must confess that, in light of God's holy law, we are not good and have woefully failed to do what is pleasing to God, replacing God with worthless self-pleasing idol substitutes, and so we justly deserve to be punished for it. Those who think they have done enough to please God have not understood or considered the seriousness of their condition. John Calvin once said, "Man is never sufficiently touched and affected by the awareness of his lowly state until he has compared himself with God's majesty." In light of the holiness of God all persons, even the best of us, would become undone. This was the case even with the holiest of the saints of the Bible. When it pleased God to reveal himself to them, they fell at his feet as though dead. God created us to enjoy and glorify Him, but humans voluntarily rebelled against God falling into the bondage of the self-centeredness of sin and cannot help themselves out of it.

For clarification, no one would here dare to somehow reason that because we cannot trust in morality that we thereby should be content to be immoral. Those who are regenerated by the Spirit of God will want to obey God and the commands are not burdensome because such persons have been born of God. (1 John 5:1-4). We obey because we are saved, not in order to be saved. To those who, by the quickening grace of the Spirit (John 6:63), come to faith in Jesus (John 6:65), the commands taste like honey as we are no longer slaves but children.

A Christian is not only one who, by the grace of God, has repented of his immorality, but, even more importantly, has repented of his morality. The more self-righteous one is, the worse it is for him. Our own merits are of no value for salvation, but will damn us. Whoever relies on his own goodness for salvation will suffer complete ruin.

Puritan Quotes:

[Some people being very moral have] "nothing to do with the business of repentance. They are so good, that they scorn God's offer of mercy. Indeed these are often in the worst condition: these are they who think they need no repentance (Luke 15:7). Their morality undoes them. They make a "savior" of it, and so on this rock they suffer shipwreck. Morality shoots short of heaven. It is only nature refined. A moral man is but old Adam dressed in fine clothes. The king's image counterfeited and stamped upon brass will not go current. The moral person seems to have the image of God—but he is only brass metal, which will never pass for current. Morality is insufficient for salvation. Though the life is moralized, the lust may be unmortified. The heart may be full of pride and atheism. Under the fair leaves of a tree, there may be a worm. I am not saying, repent that you are moral—but that you are no more than moral. Satan entered into the house that had just been swept and garnished (Luke 11:26). This is the emblem of a moral man, who is swept by civility and garnished with common gifts—but is not washed by true repentance. The unclean spirit enters into such a one. If morality were sufficient to salvation, Christ need not have died. The moral man has a fair lamp—but it lacks the oil of grace."

From Thomas Watson, The Doctrine of Repentance

---------------------------

[Some people end up] "Trusting in their own righteousness. This is a soul-ruining mischief. When men trust in their own righteousness they do indeed reject Christ's. Beloved, you had need be watchful on every hand, for not only your sins—but your duties may undo you. It may be you never thought of this; but so it is, that a man may as certainly perish by his seeming righteousness and supposed graces—as by gross sins; and that is, when a man trusts to these as his righteousness before God, for satisfying His justice, appeasing His wrath, procuring His favor, and obtaining His pardon. This is to put Christ out of office, and make a Savior of our own duties and graces. Beware of this, O professing Christians; you are much in duties—but this one fly will spoil all the ointment. When you have done most and best, be sure to go out of yourselves—to Christ; reckon your own righteousness as filthy rags (Phil 3:9; Isa 64:6)."

Joseph Alleine, A Sure Guide to Heaven


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS:
But the gospel is neither moralism nor relativism so it is equally offensive to the moral and the irreligious. But Christ calls us to repent of both our good and bad works, for we have no righteousness of our own.

1 posted on 06/09/2014 6:36:17 PM PDT by Gamecock
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To: Alex Murphy; daniel1212; metmom; Larry Lucido; F15Eagle; Elsie

Celebrating 2000 threads started by Gamecock!
Joy to some, source of consternation to others!


2 posted on 06/09/2014 6:39:58 PM PDT by Gamecock (#BringTheAdultsBackToDC)
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To: Gamecock

Are those fireworks delighting some, or dandelions causing consternation to others?


3 posted on 06/09/2014 7:00:02 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Gamecock

This begs the question of Free will ?


4 posted on 06/09/2014 7:19:45 PM PDT by Zeneta (Thoughts in time and out of season.)
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To: Gamecock; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; CynicalBear; ...

Great thread topic.

Indeed, it was those in Scripture who appealed to their own good works to whom the Lord will say, “Depart from me, you workers of iniquity. I never knew you.*


5 posted on 06/09/2014 7:34:10 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: Gamecock

How do you get a count of your threads or posts? Thanks


6 posted on 06/09/2014 8:20:38 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: metmom
Paul said we are saved by God's grace through faith alone. James said faith without works is dead. Jesus said, "If you love me feed my sheep." "If you would be saved sell your goods and give them to the poor and follow me."

This kind of self-righteous pharisaic sanctimony makes me puke. The Christian Gospel is about the redeeming love and mercy of God. This rubbish has nothing of love in it, it is merely clanging cymbals and sounding brass.

7 posted on 06/09/2014 8:33:37 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Gamecock
"Those who think they have done enough to please God have not understood or considered the seriousness of their condition."

Amen! It is akin to standing on the surface of the sun expecting to cast a shadow.

What is thy servant, that thou shouldest look upon such a dead dog as I am?
Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord
I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee
(2 Samuel 9:8,Luke 5:8,Hebrews 13:5)

8 posted on 06/09/2014 8:56:36 PM PDT by mitch5501 ("make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things ye shall never fall")
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To: All
We must never glance at what is good in ourselves, much less ponder over it, but we should search out what is wrong and what is lacking. This is an excellent way of remaining humble. -- Saint Vincent de Paul
9 posted on 06/09/2014 9:01:12 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Gamecock

A rabbi, a priest and a minister walk into a bar.
The bartender looks up and says, “What is this, a joke?”


10 posted on 06/09/2014 10:43:33 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Gamecock

A little boy was listening to a long and excessively boring sermon in church. Suddenly his eye the red sanctuary lamp caught his eye. Tugging his father’s sleeve, he said, “Daddy, when the light turns green can we go?”


11 posted on 06/09/2014 10:45:11 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: daniel1212

Just click on “Account” at the top of the main forum page.


12 posted on 06/09/2014 11:59:28 PM PDT by deks (Sent from my BlackBerry Q10)
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To: hinckley buzzard

Yup. 1 Corinthians 13 came to mind while I was reading your post.


13 posted on 06/10/2014 12:09:09 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: Salvation
Isaiah 64:6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Which is exactly why our works do NOTHING to contribute to our salvation. They are worthless, like filthy rags in God's sight.

How can any person think that by adding our own polluted works to the gift of salvation God offers us, it will complete our faith and please God and satisfy Him?

God demands PERFECTION from us, something it is absolutely impossible for us to give Him because everything we do is stained and corrupted by sin.

The Catholic church is doing people a disservice by teaching or even implying that our filthy rags works somehow appease God and count towards our salvation. It's a deceit of the enemy.

14 posted on 06/10/2014 12:16:02 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: Gamecock

But the gospel is neither moralism nor relativism so it is equally offensive to the moral and the irreligious.


Good thread.

Many Christians can be moral just because they have no desire to do those things considered immoral, it does not necessarily have any thing to do with faith.

Others try and mostly fail in some way or another, and that is why we need forgiveness.

Proverbs 16
2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the Lord weigheth the spirits.

5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the Lord: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.


15 posted on 06/10/2014 12:46:22 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: metmom

I don’t know if this is true, but I have heard that the filty rags thing is a softened a bit in the translation.

I heard the literal translation is menstrual rags.

Need to look this up.


16 posted on 06/10/2014 3:30:09 AM PDT by Gamecock (#BringTheAdultsBackToDC)
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To: ravenwolf

It is easy to look at the one or two areas of my life that I have some small amount of control over and be proud of that. But even those areas fall way short. Andbthat doesn’t even take into consideration the areas where my life is a total wreck.

The rich young ruler comes to mind. Many people take this passage to mean we should give away our money. No. It shows that he had his stuff in order. Except for one small thing.. His false god was his $$$.


17 posted on 06/10/2014 3:34:46 AM PDT by Gamecock (#BringTheAdultsBackToDC)
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To: Gamecock

Exactly the same here.


18 posted on 06/10/2014 7:06:29 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: deks

Praise God. I never looked at that. Thanks!


19 posted on 06/10/2014 7:11:30 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Gamecock
Celebrating 2000 threads started by Gamecock!

So; how many REPLIES to threads have you got?

20 posted on 06/10/2014 11:14:59 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Better question is how many have gotten me suspended!


21 posted on 06/10/2014 11:25:12 AM PDT by Gamecock (#BringTheAdultsBackToDC)
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To: daniel1212

#1.  Go to YOUR homepage...

#2.  Click on ‘In Forum and you’ll see the following data at the top of the page:

 
 


Free Republic    Forum    Account   You have mail   New posts to you   Post   Sign Out   Pager


 

#3.  Click on ‘Account’ and your information will appear.
 
 
You've posted a total of 47 threads and 116,291 replies.

22 posted on 06/10/2014 11:31:28 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: daniel1212
Now we can have a pi$$ing contest!

;^)


23 posted on 06/10/2014 11:33:44 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Gamecock

>> Celebrating 2000 threads started by Gamecock!

Congratulations, FRiend!


24 posted on 06/10/2014 1:36:48 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Gene Eric; Gamecock; Jim Robinson

A notable achievement that could be made even better if the software would break the total down into Forums.


25 posted on 06/10/2014 3:28:58 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Thanks. Now how about how many words?! And how many unanswered questions?


26 posted on 06/10/2014 9:31:33 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

Are there really any unanswered ones?

The jury knows when someone pleads the FIFTH; whether it is verbalized or not...


27 posted on 06/11/2014 3:41:02 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: daniel1212

How many facepalmed cats? How many boxes of cereal? How many words did NOT lose their lives on the pages of FR; just because a picture volunteered to take their place?


28 posted on 06/11/2014 3:43:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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