Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Why do Protestant lay people hate clergy?

Posted on 07/26/2014 4:41:46 AM PDT by michaelwlf3

I am coming up on my first year as an ordained minister in a continuing Anglican church, and I have noticed that participating on political forums (even when the topic is religious) I find that my opinions and postings more often than not generate more hatred than anything else. Among the things I often hear are that the laity are the real priests and that I am a Pharisee, that my vocation disqualifies me from offering an opinion on anything Christian because I am too narrow minded, and (my personal favorite) because I look too Catholic I must be a child molester.

Are these people really Christians?


TOPICS: Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: cathvsprot; clergy; laity; sectarianturmoil; theology; whiningwhiners
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 1,101-1,112 next last

1 posted on 07/26/2014 4:41:46 AM PDT by michaelwlf3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

I have asked myself that question many times over when I read the commentary on different websites. I’ll probably lurk off and on to find out what others say. Good luck, and God bless!!


2 posted on 07/26/2014 4:47:30 AM PDT by FamiliarFace
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

Interesting idea. I used to be Catholic and am Lutheran. I now understand the priesthood of all believers and the fact that all of us Christians are saints — ones set aside for God’s use. I don’t see the pastor of a church as bad, just don’t think of him the way I was supposed to revere the priests I used to work with who were in that church’s hierarchy.


3 posted on 07/26/2014 4:54:39 AM PDT by Moonmad27 ("I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way." Jessica Rabbit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

I have a couple of friends who went to Dallas Theological Seminar (DTS). Their views on most things (except the Eucharist and a hand-full of others) are very Catholic. However, they recoil in horror at being told that. They have all-but admitted that their basic theological position is that the Catholic Church has it wrong... let’s go find another answer. When they find the same answers the Catholic Church has taught for 2,000 years? They say even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then...


4 posted on 07/26/2014 4:57:49 AM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3
Are these people Christians?

1 Corinthians 13:1

5 posted on 07/26/2014 4:59:18 AM PDT by Oratam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kalee

For later


6 posted on 07/26/2014 5:02:35 AM PDT by kalee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

That’s absurd. The majority of the men in my family (starting with Roger Williams in the 1600s) are and have been “protestant” (Baptist, actually — but people incorrectly call that “protestant”) ministers. That includes, Dad, uncles, cousins, etc.

All have had 100% positive relationships with the lay people within their churches. Successful clergy realize the church can’t function without capable, dedicated lay ministers.


7 posted on 07/26/2014 5:04:09 AM PDT by MayflowerMadam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3
In the "continuing Anglican church" you have already aligned yourself with a group who think they have superior knowledge and piety and don't want to play with others. You may wish to consider what you are saying/doing to invite disresepct.
8 posted on 07/26/2014 5:09:28 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

Scripturally church members are supposed to submit to a pastor’s authority, treat them with honor and love, pay them well, and fulfill their obligations by using their God-given talents to grow the body of Christ.

If church members would spend as much time in prayer for their pastors as they do complaining about them, they would find (to their surprise) little to complain about.


9 posted on 07/26/2014 5:14:12 AM PDT by stars & stripes forever (Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

Just the condescending term “lay people” is enough to realize this jerk thinks more of himself then he should, especially someone that claims to be a man of God.


10 posted on 07/26/2014 5:19:06 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

I just had to make a comment here, unfortunately it doesn’t answer your question. However this is important to me.

In my county the vast majority of children reside in homes that one or more members receive ‘assistance’ of one sort or another. Our school board recognizes that and tries to help out where it can.

Earlier this week there was a going back to school event where they hand out school supplies, back packs things like that, there was also a mobile dental clinic that was there for the kids.

My granddaughter wanted to go so she could see some of her friends from school. So I took her. The line was huge it snaked out the entrance to the building for almost the length of a football field.

That’s not what bothered me the most, what bothered me was that a local church had a sound truck and a flatbed trailer and a ‘preacher’ was blasting the people with a speaker system I heard from almost a mile away. “Hellfire, Damnation, Hold your hands up for Jesus and Be Saved, etc”

I got a headache almost immediately from the volume of the PA system and we didn’t get closer than 100 hundred yards before My Granddaughter and I turned around and left.

I found out later that the ‘church’ had donated a large amount of the items that were going to the kids, School Supplies that is. And as their ‘price’ they were allowed to preach the gospel outside the building.

There are appropriate venues for this and also inappropriate ones too. To my mind this was inappropriate, not because of the message, Free speech, etc. but the manner it was presented in and the venue it was at. It was almost like they were hijacking the event and knew they had a quasi-captive audience.

Well... anyway, thank you for letting me vent.


11 posted on 07/26/2014 5:19:15 AM PDT by The Working Man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

>>I am coming up on my first year as an ordained minister

Usually it takes decades for a pastor to develop the us vs them (with “us” being the clergy and “them” being the folks in the pews) attitude. I predict that you will have a very unfruitful career unless you can learn to love them for all their warts. A shepherd works constantly for his flock, but the flock never does anything for him. Nothing, that is, but survive and thrive. And that is the shepherd’s mission.

It isn’t that laity hates the clergy. They don’t. I don’t know how Anglicans do things, so I will use my experience as a Methodist.

Pastoring is a full-time vocation that is paid well when you factor in housing allowances and such. They say it needs to be full-time (and they look down their noses at those Part-Time Local Pastors) because they need to be able to work around the clock on pastoring. OK, I get that.

So, they insist that the church form small groups so the laity can teach and exhort one another.

They insist we form care teams to look in on the homebound and take them communion.

They insist that the laity mow their grass or pay for a lawn service.

They do not work on church work days.

If they go on vacation, they get one of the Certified Lay Speakers to fill the pulpit.

They schedule office hours around their family schedule (including having to leave promptly at a certain time to pick up their kids at school). Unless you are in the hospital for an emergent life-threatening problem on the weekend, you will not see him until Monday because Friday and Saturday are his days off, and Sunday after church is his personal “me time” to wind down from preaching.

So, it isn’t that Protestants hate their clergy. Its just that the clergy has delegated so much of his office to the laity that we often wonder why he is there.


12 posted on 07/26/2014 5:19:42 AM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyranni)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

Most of the people that post on religious forums are nutcases.

First thing they do is attack the Pope and Catholics

Its stupid.

The schism happened, its over, live and let live


13 posted on 07/26/2014 5:19:48 AM PDT by Rome2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pgyanke

One of the prayers we use is that we ask God to lead all people who call themselves Christian into the way of truth. It’s in one of the older Prayer Books, I don’t think it is used any longer. Those seeking the truth will find it.


14 posted on 07/26/2014 5:22:33 AM PDT by michaelwlf3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: hinckley buzzard

Really? How is that?


15 posted on 07/26/2014 5:22:33 AM PDT by michaelwlf3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: CodeToad

Thanks for proving my point.


16 posted on 07/26/2014 5:22:33 AM PDT by michaelwlf3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

17 posted on 07/26/2014 5:22:39 AM PDT by HangnJudge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

Your point was that clergy are pious?


18 posted on 07/26/2014 5:23:54 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3
Former Catholic - current non-denominational. I believe that religion in and of itself is sinful in nature because each religion has its own requirements that belie the statement made about those who tried to be worthy by continuing to abide by the Law of the Old Covenant had fallen from grace. Religions, being concocted by men, all have a slant that requires some creative interpretations of the Bible. As far as I'm concerned, those who elevate their priests missed the bit where Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites because they acted holier than everyone else and hid their defects from public view.

Knowledge of Christ's amazing sacrifice and what it means is all one needs to turn to Him and be saved - yet some think that without their priests, one cannot be saved. Surely they put themselves above God Himself when they make such a declaration...

Teach the Word of God, in context and focus on Jesus Himself, and you will be a member of a congregation (I use congregations vs. church because we all are members of His Church) that grows and flourishes. My church's congregation has grown to the point we need a bigger building and have donated over $300K to missionary work this year alone. My pastor's stated purpose is to end each service with someone who didn't know Christ to now be aware and to start to love Him and for those who know and love Him to know and love Him a little more than when it started. He keeps things in context and reminds us that the best of us (including him) is no better than the worst of us and the worst of us is no worse than the best of us - IOW, keep it real.

God Bless

19 posted on 07/26/2014 5:26:00 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pgyanke

That’s not a surprise. DTS is primarily an Arminian seminary. And as Augustus Toplady wrote 250 years ago, Arminianism is the “road to Rome.”
The free will idea that man is capable of choosing to be saved is a most Roman Catholic idea. That’s why most “Protestants” who are comfortable with the ecumenical movement are Arminian.

The brilliant Dr. S. Lewis Johnson was a rare reformed professor, but he has been gone from DTS from DTS since the 80’s.


20 posted on 07/26/2014 5:27:26 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3
Are these people really Christians?

They must be, they keep telling us that others aren't Christians without any idea of what is in the "other's" heart.

In fact, I think they must be the elite of the elite when it comes to being Christians - like the chastised hypocrites called Pharisees, they are often only too eager to tell us how dang Christian they are.

21 posted on 07/26/2014 5:29:03 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3
"Are these people really Christians?"

I ask myself that same question when I see someone trying to incite a flame war between Protestant and Catholic Christians.

22 posted on 07/26/2014 5:30:57 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males---the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

Interesting for sure. As a Catholic who used to be a Lutheran, the question of authority has historically been perhaps the most divisive, leading to continual fragmentation of Protestant denominations. Being a pastor is a tough job. God bless you in your journey.


23 posted on 07/26/2014 5:34:21 AM PDT by Reo (the 4th Estate is a 5th Column)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

“With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin… Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by absolute necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.”2

Pope Clement V, Council of Vienne, Decree # 30, 1311?1312, ex cathedra:


24 posted on 07/26/2014 5:37:15 AM PDT by HangnJudge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CodeToad
The point is that many clergy are self-righteous not righteous. They tend to be wolves, not shepherds. I know from personal experience. For many modern protestant clergy the saying of the president of Gettysburg Seminary is apropos: “Those that can do, those that can't do teach, and for those that can neither do nor teach, God created the sheltered workshop called the ministry.”
25 posted on 07/26/2014 5:37:46 AM PDT by ricmc2175
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

The reason you feel this way is because you are far too focused on self than on Christ. You take yourself far too seriously. Complaining on an internet forum about “them?” Teach us, o holy one, how we should reverence you!

Sincerely,

An ordained Baptist preacher and former pastor


26 posted on 07/26/2014 5:37:53 AM PDT by refreshed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

I don’t think God calls any of us to earn a paycheck peddling Him.


27 posted on 07/26/2014 5:38:11 AM PDT by greatvikingone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HangnJudge

http://www.onetruecatholicfaith.com/Roman-Catholic-Articles.php?id=443&title=1.+The+Chair+of+St.+Peter+on+Outside+the+Catholic+Church+There+is+No+Salvation&category=Outside+the+Catholic+Church+there+is+no+Salvation&page=1


28 posted on 07/26/2014 5:39:01 AM PDT by HangnJudge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

Hi, Michael. I note that you have said you are an ordained minister. Does that mean you are a pastor or does it mean that you are a deacon?


29 posted on 07/26/2014 5:40:03 AM PDT by johniegrad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3
The preacher-man who runs the church next door to me is a jerk. We've almost come to blows over his destruction of my property with unlawful drainage changes that made an arroyo out of my drive.

A lawyer and a couple of cops helped with that.

Being the grandson of a Baptist minister and the son of a Deacon, I have to ask if that SOB is really a Christian.

Some are just jerks that need an arse whipping.

/johnny

30 posted on 07/26/2014 5:40:43 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: refreshed

“The reason you feel this way is because you are far too focused on self than on Christ.”

Yep. Some clergy tend to wonder what people think of them instead of what they can contribute to what people think of Him.


31 posted on 07/26/2014 5:42:03 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

Because the entire concept of “Protestant” invites each individual to be their own “Pope”.

One interpretation is as good as another, as long as I convince myself that I am being guided by the Holy Spirit.

Thus, anyone claiming to be in authority, who disagrees with me is an anathema.


32 posted on 07/26/2014 5:50:02 AM PDT by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bryanw92

Usually it takes decades for a pastor to develop the us vs them (with “us” being the clergy and “them” being the folks in the pews) attitude. I predict that you will have a very unfruitful career unless you can learn to love them for all their warts. A shepherd works constantly for his flock, but the flock never does anything for him. Nothing, that is, but survive and thrive. And that is the shepherd’s mission.”

Well said - I am not Methodist but a clergy person serves Christ by serving His people. Clergy expecting constant gratitude will be disappointed - don’t look for it. One must just love the flock where they are - and pray that God will give you all you need to follow His lead.


33 posted on 07/26/2014 5:54:57 AM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: greatvikingone

You seem to be forgetting the Holy Apostle Paul’s plea on behalf of himself and Barnabas in which he appealed to the Mosaic Law’s prohibition on muzzling an ox.


34 posted on 07/26/2014 5:55:44 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

I’m a lapsed Protestant who’s lapsed precisely because so many of the Protestant clergy insist on supplanting the bible with Marxism and sodomy and enthusiastically support truly subversive activities like the current invasion by illegal alien minors.


35 posted on 07/26/2014 6:04:48 AM PDT by libstripper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

Don’t worry about these people on FR. They are mostly Catholic-haters. Anything, then, that looks remotely Catholic is something they will attack.

Prayers for you.


36 posted on 07/26/2014 6:25:04 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Moonmad27

Once baptized a Catholic, aren’t you always a Catholic? You may be an inactive Catholic, but you are still baptized (and maybe confirmed) in the Catholic Church. Those marks stay on your soul.


37 posted on 07/26/2014 6:26:52 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

The Left is disproportionately represented in church matters. They have an agenda, and want to have a deciding role in church affairs.


38 posted on 07/26/2014 6:29:18 AM PDT by popdonnelly (The right to self-defense is older than the Constitution.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Moonmad27

Perhaps you should reread the first chapter of the Acts of the Apostles.


39 posted on 07/26/2014 6:35:15 AM PDT by Ge0ffrey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: G Larry; michaelwlf3

G Larry has it pretty much right. On Planet Protestant, the clergy are the hired help, coming and going at the say of the congregation — which is not amused when the help gets up on its hind legs and behaves like it has authority. This is an ecclesiological problem common to all reformation sects. Pope Francis has spoken more than once about clericalization of the laity.

Bottom line: on some level, you believe in the Sacrament of holy orders. Your congregation, like most protestants, does not. Think about that for a while.

I’ll pray for you.


40 posted on 07/26/2014 6:38:57 AM PDT by Romulus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: greatvikingone

” I don’t think God calls any of us to earn a paycheck peddling Him”
I don’t think G_D calls any of us to build big buildings.
I don’t think G_D calls any of us to be over others.
I don’t think G_D calls us to pay someone to pray for us.
I don’t think G_D calls us to pay someone to read the Word to us.
Leave the milk people and look for yourself for the meat of the Word.


41 posted on 07/26/2014 6:39:29 AM PDT by lostboy61 (Lock and Load and stand your ground!.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: michaelwlf3

Why are you concerned with political forums?


42 posted on 07/26/2014 6:41:32 AM PDT by InvisibleChurch (http://thegatwickview.tumblr.com/ http://thepurginglutheran.tumblr.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bryanw92

I pretty much do everything, along with my Bishop, music, liturgy, hospital visitation, jailhouse ministry. I earn no salary and haven’t even recovered any of my expenses in about four years. I throw money into the collection plate I earn on my day job. I paid for my own education, my own vestments, my own books, and so forth.

OUR laity is not the problem. The problem is the laity that does not attend my church but answer me in places like this.


43 posted on 07/26/2014 6:44:34 AM PDT by michaelwlf3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: CatherineofAragon

I am afraid you have misjudged me.


44 posted on 07/26/2014 6:44:34 AM PDT by michaelwlf3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: refreshed

By all means, show me the way of humility...


45 posted on 07/26/2014 6:44:34 AM PDT by michaelwlf3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: johniegrad

I am a Deacon, a servant. I will stay in this station if God allows it.


46 posted on 07/26/2014 6:44:34 AM PDT by michaelwlf3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Thank you.


47 posted on 07/26/2014 6:44:34 AM PDT by michaelwlf3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: .45 Long Colt
The free will idea that man is capable of choosing to be saved is a most Roman Catholic idea

LOL ... If you mean that a man, apart from enabling grace given through the Holy Spirit, is capable of choosing to be saved, then that's the definition of the heresy of semi-Pelagianism, infallibly condemned by Rome 1400 years ago.

You hate what you do not even begin to understand. It's sad.

48 posted on 07/26/2014 6:49:28 AM PDT by Campion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: CodeToad

I must say, I have to agree. The proper term is “the ministry of the laity.” Using the term “lay people” implies an inferior position, and in Christ their are no inferior positions.


49 posted on 07/26/2014 6:50:00 AM PDT by impactplayer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: libstripper
Coming Home Network

Find a story similar to yours here.

50 posted on 07/26/2014 6:51:46 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 1,101-1,112 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson