Skip to comments.Why do Protestant lay people hate clergy?
Posted on 07/26/2014 4:41:46 AM PDT by michaelwlf3
I am coming up on my first year as an ordained minister in a continuing Anglican church, and I have noticed that participating on political forums (even when the topic is religious) I find that my opinions and postings more often than not generate more hatred than anything else. Among the things I often hear are that the laity are the real priests and that I am a Pharisee, that my vocation disqualifies me from offering an opinion on anything Christian because I am too narrow minded, and (my personal favorite) because I look too Catholic I must be a child molester.
Are these people really Christians?
I have asked myself that question many times over when I read the commentary on different websites. I’ll probably lurk off and on to find out what others say. Good luck, and God bless!!
Interesting idea. I used to be Catholic and am Lutheran. I now understand the priesthood of all believers and the fact that all of us Christians are saints — ones set aside for God’s use. I don’t see the pastor of a church as bad, just don’t think of him the way I was supposed to revere the priests I used to work with who were in that church’s hierarchy.
I have a couple of friends who went to Dallas Theological Seminar (DTS). Their views on most things (except the Eucharist and a hand-full of others) are very Catholic. However, they recoil in horror at being told that. They have all-but admitted that their basic theological position is that the Catholic Church has it wrong... let’s go find another answer. When they find the same answers the Catholic Church has taught for 2,000 years? They say even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then...
1 Corinthians 13:1
That’s absurd. The majority of the men in my family (starting with Roger Williams in the 1600s) are and have been “protestant” (Baptist, actually — but people incorrectly call that “protestant”) ministers. That includes, Dad, uncles, cousins, etc.
All have had 100% positive relationships with the lay people within their churches. Successful clergy realize the church can’t function without capable, dedicated lay ministers.
Scripturally church members are supposed to submit to a pastor’s authority, treat them with honor and love, pay them well, and fulfill their obligations by using their God-given talents to grow the body of Christ.
If church members would spend as much time in prayer for their pastors as they do complaining about them, they would find (to their surprise) little to complain about.
Just the condescending term “lay people” is enough to realize this jerk thinks more of himself then he should, especially someone that claims to be a man of God.
I just had to make a comment here, unfortunately it doesn’t answer your question. However this is important to me.
In my county the vast majority of children reside in homes that one or more members receive ‘assistance’ of one sort or another. Our school board recognizes that and tries to help out where it can.
Earlier this week there was a going back to school event where they hand out school supplies, back packs things like that, there was also a mobile dental clinic that was there for the kids.
My granddaughter wanted to go so she could see some of her friends from school. So I took her. The line was huge it snaked out the entrance to the building for almost the length of a football field.
That’s not what bothered me the most, what bothered me was that a local church had a sound truck and a flatbed trailer and a ‘preacher’ was blasting the people with a speaker system I heard from almost a mile away. “Hellfire, Damnation, Hold your hands up for Jesus and Be Saved, etc”
I got a headache almost immediately from the volume of the PA system and we didn’t get closer than 100 hundred yards before My Granddaughter and I turned around and left.
I found out later that the ‘church’ had donated a large amount of the items that were going to the kids, School Supplies that is. And as their ‘price’ they were allowed to preach the gospel outside the building.
There are appropriate venues for this and also inappropriate ones too. To my mind this was inappropriate, not because of the message, Free speech, etc. but the manner it was presented in and the venue it was at. It was almost like they were hijacking the event and knew they had a quasi-captive audience.
Well... anyway, thank you for letting me vent.
>>I am coming up on my first year as an ordained minister
Usually it takes decades for a pastor to develop the us vs them (with “us” being the clergy and “them” being the folks in the pews) attitude. I predict that you will have a very unfruitful career unless you can learn to love them for all their warts. A shepherd works constantly for his flock, but the flock never does anything for him. Nothing, that is, but survive and thrive. And that is the shepherd’s mission.
It isn’t that laity hates the clergy. They don’t. I don’t know how Anglicans do things, so I will use my experience as a Methodist.
Pastoring is a full-time vocation that is paid well when you factor in housing allowances and such. They say it needs to be full-time (and they look down their noses at those Part-Time Local Pastors) because they need to be able to work around the clock on pastoring. OK, I get that.
So, they insist that the church form small groups so the laity can teach and exhort one another.
They insist we form care teams to look in on the homebound and take them communion.
They insist that the laity mow their grass or pay for a lawn service.
They do not work on church work days.
If they go on vacation, they get one of the Certified Lay Speakers to fill the pulpit.
They schedule office hours around their family schedule (including having to leave promptly at a certain time to pick up their kids at school). Unless you are in the hospital for an emergent life-threatening problem on the weekend, you will not see him until Monday because Friday and Saturday are his days off, and Sunday after church is his personal “me time” to wind down from preaching.
So, it isn’t that Protestants hate their clergy. Its just that the clergy has delegated so much of his office to the laity that we often wonder why he is there.
Most of the people that post on religious forums are nutcases.
First thing they do is attack the Pope and Catholics
The schism happened, its over, live and let live
One of the prayers we use is that we ask God to lead all people who call themselves Christian into the way of truth. It’s in one of the older Prayer Books, I don’t think it is used any longer. Those seeking the truth will find it.
Really? How is that?
Thanks for proving my point.
Your point was that clergy are pious?
Knowledge of Christ's amazing sacrifice and what it means is all one needs to turn to Him and be saved - yet some think that without their priests, one cannot be saved. Surely they put themselves above God Himself when they make such a declaration...
Teach the Word of God, in context and focus on Jesus Himself, and you will be a member of a congregation (I use congregations vs. church because we all are members of His Church) that grows and flourishes. My church's congregation has grown to the point we need a bigger building and have donated over $300K to missionary work this year alone. My pastor's stated purpose is to end each service with someone who didn't know Christ to now be aware and to start to love Him and for those who know and love Him to know and love Him a little more than when it started. He keeps things in context and reminds us that the best of us (including him) is no better than the worst of us and the worst of us is no worse than the best of us - IOW, keep it real.
That’s not a surprise. DTS is primarily an Arminian seminary. And as Augustus Toplady wrote 250 years ago, Arminianism is the “road to Rome.”
The free will idea that man is capable of choosing to be saved is a most Roman Catholic idea. That’s why most “Protestants” who are comfortable with the ecumenical movement are Arminian.
The brilliant Dr. S. Lewis Johnson was a rare reformed professor, but he has been gone from DTS from DTS since the 80’s.
They must be, they keep telling us that others aren't Christians without any idea of what is in the "other's" heart.
In fact, I think they must be the elite of the elite when it comes to being Christians - like the chastised hypocrites called Pharisees, they are often only too eager to tell us how dang Christian they are.
I ask myself that same question when I see someone trying to incite a flame war between Protestant and Catholic Christians.
Interesting for sure. As a Catholic who used to be a Lutheran, the question of authority has historically been perhaps the most divisive, leading to continual fragmentation of Protestant denominations. Being a pastor is a tough job. God bless you in your journey.
With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by absolute necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.2
Pope Clement V, Council of Vienne, Decree # 30, 1311?1312, ex cathedra:
The reason you feel this way is because you are far too focused on self than on Christ. You take yourself far too seriously. Complaining on an internet forum about “them?” Teach us, o holy one, how we should reverence you!
An ordained Baptist preacher and former pastor
I don’t think God calls any of us to earn a paycheck peddling Him.
Hi, Michael. I note that you have said you are an ordained minister. Does that mean you are a pastor or does it mean that you are a deacon?
A lawyer and a couple of cops helped with that.
Being the grandson of a Baptist minister and the son of a Deacon, I have to ask if that SOB is really a Christian.
Some are just jerks that need an arse whipping.
“The reason you feel this way is because you are far too focused on self than on Christ.”
Yep. Some clergy tend to wonder what people think of them instead of what they can contribute to what people think of Him.
Because the entire concept of “Protestant” invites each individual to be their own “Pope”.
One interpretation is as good as another, as long as I convince myself that I am being guided by the Holy Spirit.
Thus, anyone claiming to be in authority, who disagrees with me is an anathema.
Usually it takes decades for a pastor to develop the us vs them (with us being the clergy and them being the folks in the pews) attitude. I predict that you will have a very unfruitful career unless you can learn to love them for all their warts. A shepherd works constantly for his flock, but the flock never does anything for him. Nothing, that is, but survive and thrive. And that is the shepherds mission.”
Well said - I am not Methodist but a clergy person serves Christ by serving His people. Clergy expecting constant gratitude will be disappointed - don’t look for it. One must just love the flock where they are - and pray that God will give you all you need to follow His lead.
You seem to be forgetting the Holy Apostle Paul’s plea on behalf of himself and Barnabas in which he appealed to the Mosaic Law’s prohibition on muzzling an ox.
I’m a lapsed Protestant who’s lapsed precisely because so many of the Protestant clergy insist on supplanting the bible with Marxism and sodomy and enthusiastically support truly subversive activities like the current invasion by illegal alien minors.
Don’t worry about these people on FR. They are mostly Catholic-haters. Anything, then, that looks remotely Catholic is something they will attack.
Prayers for you.
Once baptized a Catholic, aren’t you always a Catholic? You may be an inactive Catholic, but you are still baptized (and maybe confirmed) in the Catholic Church. Those marks stay on your soul.
The Left is disproportionately represented in church matters. They have an agenda, and want to have a deciding role in church affairs.
Perhaps you should reread the first chapter of the Acts of the Apostles.
G Larry has it pretty much right. On Planet Protestant, the clergy are the hired help, coming and going at the say of the congregation — which is not amused when the help gets up on its hind legs and behaves like it has authority. This is an ecclesiological problem common to all reformation sects. Pope Francis has spoken more than once about clericalization of the laity.
Bottom line: on some level, you believe in the Sacrament of holy orders. Your congregation, like most protestants, does not. Think about that for a while.
I’ll pray for you.
” I don’t think God calls any of us to earn a paycheck peddling Him”
I don’t think G_D calls any of us to build big buildings.
I don’t think G_D calls any of us to be over others.
I don’t think G_D calls us to pay someone to pray for us.
I don’t think G_D calls us to pay someone to read the Word to us.
Leave the milk people and look for yourself for the meat of the Word.
Why are you concerned with political forums?
I pretty much do everything, along with my Bishop, music, liturgy, hospital visitation, jailhouse ministry. I earn no salary and haven’t even recovered any of my expenses in about four years. I throw money into the collection plate I earn on my day job. I paid for my own education, my own vestments, my own books, and so forth.
OUR laity is not the problem. The problem is the laity that does not attend my church but answer me in places like this.
I am afraid you have misjudged me.
By all means, show me the way of humility...
I am a Deacon, a servant. I will stay in this station if God allows it.
LOL ... If you mean that a man, apart from enabling grace given through the Holy Spirit, is capable of choosing to be saved, then that's the definition of the heresy of semi-Pelagianism, infallibly condemned by Rome 1400 years ago.
You hate what you do not even begin to understand. It's sad.
I must say, I have to agree. The proper term is “the ministry of the laity.” Using the term “lay people” implies an inferior position, and in Christ their are no inferior positions.
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