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To: agrarianlady; yldstrk
What God's angel said she was. Kecharitomene.

Means "full of grace." The opposite of "full on sin."

To put it in the strongest way, the angel precedes it with "Chaire," which grammatically is always followed with either a name or a title, which in English would be capitalized.

So, "Hail, O Lady Full-of-Grace!"

Unique in Scriptures.

Only one other human person, Stephen, is described as "full of grace," but-- different words -- as an adjective phrase, not as his NAME or TILE. (Name and title are highly significant in Scripturees: when God addresses you by a new name, that's how God sees your identity.)

No, Mary's not a goddess. Jesus her Son is God and is her Savior.

She needed a Savior because He saved her from sin-- before she even fell into it. Its He who filled her with grace.

Hence we learn of this through the beautiful and unparalleled greeting of the Angel.

Tagline.

55 posted on 07/29/2014 5:34:22 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Chaire, Kecharitomene.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
What God's angel said she was. Kecharitomene. Means "full of grace." The opposite of "full on sin." To put it in the strongest way, the angel precedes it with "Chaire," which grammatically is always followed with either a name or a title, which in English would be capitalized. So, "Hail, O Lady Full-of-Grace!"

Nope...the Greek doesn't have it that way. It literally reads: Greetings, you favored with grace! The Lord is with you.

you favored with grace is not in caps as the word Lord later is.

you make the error of using English norms to translate Greek.

Besides in not one of the major translations is this in caps.

In fact, none use the phrase "Hail, O Lady Full of Grace as you did.

Again, another false interpretation by catholics attempting to prove something that's just not there.

The root word charitoo is also use in Ephesians 1:6.(echaritosen). In both instances is means God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor). From Helps Word Studies

Bottom line: It is not a tile for Mary

116 posted on 07/30/2014 5:41:21 AM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

” Response #1: Nonsense like this “bugs” me too! Let me begin by pointing out that Mary too was a bit confused by this greeting, wondering “what kind of greeting this might be” (Lk.1:29 NIV). The angel Gabriel himself responds with the explanation: “But the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor (charis-grace) with God’” (Lk.1:30). The word italicized here, favor or “grace”, is the root word of the verbal form in question. That is to say, kecharitomene is “grace”, charis, made into a verb (to be specific, a verbal participle). Thus we have from God’s messenger himself an answer to this question, if we are but ready to receive it, namely, Mary is called by this epithet because she had “garnered grace” in God’s eyes through her exemplary spiritual life (cf. the similar praise given to her cousins, Zechariah and Elizabeth earlier in the chapter: Lk.1:6). And that, after all, is the literal meaning of kecharitomene, namely, “having been graced”. Further, because Mary had “found” this favor/grace/charis at some point in the past, by definition she was not born with it. This favor came about from something she did, namely, believing in the Lord and walking in a way pleasing to Him through spiritual growth and service. This explanation from Gabriel proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that his appellation in question here does not imply sinlessness, but rather demonstrates Mary’s spiritual prominence, divine favor of the sort available to all believers but, sadly, appropriated by few.

It really irritates me when people who are used to dealing with others who don’t have degrees in Greek use their insufficient knowledge as a sort of sledge hammer to “settle” all arguments. Based on the above, a simple answer to give your respondent would be: “hogwash!”, but I suppose we should go into the details:

1) Transliterated the actual form of the word in question would be kecharitomene, but anyone dealing with Greek would describe it as what it is, a participle of the verb charitoo.

2) Of all Indo-European languages of which I am aware, Greek is the most root-focused. The import of that fact here is that this verb is based on a root meaning “favor” (cf. Greek charis); that is what is at the core of charitoo’s meaning, and that is the key to discovering what this particular form of the verb means or might mean in turn. To put the matter in terms of its essential accidence, charitoo is merely a factitive verb, that is, it’s what someone does when they want to take a noun and turn it into a transitive/causative verb. Therefore, by its structure and root the verb ought to mean “to give or bestow favor-grace to or on someone”. In the case of a perfect participle in passive voice (such as we have here), the form would then mean “someone who has had favor-grace given/bestowed to/on them (i.e., from some source)”.

3) To call this word a “hapax” in an attempt to bestow some sort of uniqueness on it is disingenuous. Not only does this verb occur throughout Greek literature - it also occurs elsewhere in the Bible at Ephesians 1:6:

Having foreordained us for adoption to Himself through Jesus Christ according to the good pleasure of His will, for the purpose of producing (at salvation) praise for the glory of His grace which He has graciously bestowed on us in the Beloved [One].
Ephesians 1:5-6

Another way to put the italicized phrase is “the favor-grace with which He has favored-graced us”; in the Greek its charin hes echaritosen. In other words, the verb in question from Luke 1:28 has as its first or internal object “favor/grace” and as its second or true direct object “us”. We get / have gotten favor/grace from God in Jesus Christ. We know that here because the verse says so explicitly, but that is not any kind of surprise for anyone who understands that grace is favor, and specifically and importantly in the Bible it is God’s favor, His beneficence, good will, grace, kindliness, etc. directed our way because of our relationship with His Son. We are all said to have this grace in Ephesians 1:6 expressed by exactly the same verb as is used in Luke 1:28. That doesn’t mean, of course, that we never sin!”

“5) The idea that one can read into this word meaning “object of grace/favor” any degree of sinlessness or perfection on the basis of a “perfect” verb form indicates a complete misunderstanding of what “perfect” means in grammatical terms. In verbs, it only means “completed action” – not sinlessness!”

http://www.ichthys.com/mail-Mary-full-of-grace.htm


221 posted on 08/03/2014 11:50:46 AM PDT by Mr Rogers
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