The Real Catholic Debate

Center For Law and Religion Forum ^ | 10/2/14 | Robert J. Delahunty

[marshmallow]

Rod Dreher’s post at The American Conservative, Ghosts of Colson & Neuhaus, is exceptionally interesting. It summarizes the discussions at a recent seminar hosted by First Things editor Rusty Reno, including both Catholics and non-Catholics, on the state of the culture, and more particularly on the state of the American Catholic Church. Much of the focus was on the current generation of students. There’s a lot here, but one issue stood out for me: the real debate within American Catholicism.

As one of the participants at the seminar argued, there really is not, despite the media, a major debate between “liberal” and “conservative” American Catholics. There is indeed a political debate between liberals and conservatives, but it does not map on to any important debate within the American Church. “Liberal” Catholics are Catholics on their way out the door. Their children will be either non-Catholic or else serious Catholic believers. “Liberal” Catholicism is like “liberal” Protestantism: a way station to something else. At best, it will survive as a cultural inflection; it has no chance of being a living faith.

The deeper and more fascinating debate is between those who think that American Catholicism is compatible with this country’s political regime, and the “radicals” who deny it. The accommodationists, to call them that, trace back to Fr John Courtney Murray and nowadays include people like Robert George and George Weigel. The radicals include Alistair Macintyre and others less well known to me. The accommodationists think that there is a lot wrong, to be sure, with American culture and politics, and that the problems may have begun as long ago as the Progressive Era; but they also think institutional reform is both necessary and (still) possible. They want to reinvigorate core institutions of American civil society like the family...

[Slyfox]

“Liberal” Catholics are Catholics on their way out the door.

The best visual of this for me was a trip to the Northwest Pacific. We attended 10:00 Mass and I noted as we entered that there seemed to be no other children in the entire church except for mine. By the time Mass started no other children had arrived.

Then I noticed six grey-headed people at the front of the church fixing to play their guitars. I hate guitar Masses. They played various updated versions of Kumbiya.

I got the feeling that this particular church did not see many children at what is in most Catholic Churches is the most populous Mass of the week, when a couple of the grey-headed rockers greeted us as we left the church remarking how nice it was to see our children.

That is the legacy of liberal Catholics who have voted for every pro-abort they could get their hands on.

[defconw]

Interesting article. Do we stay or go? I have been thinking about this for a long time. (I mean in politics not the church).

My spiritual life would certainly be more serene were I to disengage from politics. But do I have an obligation to stay engaged? Debating within myself.

Thanks for the article.

[NKP_Vet]

I despise guitars at Mass and I hate seeing Catholics holding each others hands during the Our Father. This is protestantism pure and simple. When I miss Mass at my parish and have to find another Mass, if the congregation starts the hand-holding I never go back.

[defconw]

Not my cup of tea either. I don't mind a praise and worship band for a youth retreat or Mass, as long as the songs selected are liturgically correct and the band part is muted. Of course I worked with youth for a number of years and it does appeal to them, but even they want it to be Catholic.

[Alex Murphy]

As one of the participants at the seminar argued, there really is not, despite the media, a major debate between “liberal” and “conservative” American Catholics. There is indeed a political debate between liberals and conservatives, but it does not map on to any important debate within the American Church. “Liberal” Catholics are Catholics on their way out the door. Their children will be either non-Catholic or else serious Catholic believers. “Liberal” Catholicism is like “liberal” Protestantism: a way station to something else. At best, it will survive as a cultural inflection; it has no chance of being a living faith.

AFEOCNPTDO