Posted on 01/24/2016 7:24:09 PM PST by ebb tide
If, as the post-conciliar popes are fond of saying, “The Jews are our elder brothers,” does not that make the Islamists our younger brothers?
Correction:
If, as the post-conciliar popes are fond of saying, “The Jews are our elder brothers in the faith of Abraham,” does not that make the Islamists our younger brothers?
Several centuries ago, the Pope decreed that all the Jews had to convert or leave Italy. There was a huge outcry from the Jewish community, so the Pope offered a deal. He would have a religious debate with the leader of the Jewish community. If the Jews won, they could stay in Italy, if the Pope won, they would have to leave.
The Jewish people met and picked an aged but wise Rabbi, Moishe, to represent them in the debate. However, as Moishe spoke no Italian and the Pope spoke no Yiddish, they all agreed that it would be a “silent” debate.
On the chosen day, the Pope and Rabbi Moishe sat opposite each other for a ful! l minute before the Pope raised his hand and showed three fingers.
Rabbi Moishe looked back and raised one finger.
Next the Pope waved his finger around his head.
Rabbi Moishe pointed to the ground where he sat.
The Pope then brought out a communion wafer and a chalice of wine.
Rabbi Moishe pulled out an apple.
With that, the Pope stood up and declared that he was beaten, that Rabbi Moishe was too clever and that the Jews could stay.
Later, the Cardinals met with the Pope, asking what had happened.
The Pope said, “First I held up three fingers to represent the Trinity. He responded by holding up one finger to remind me that there is still only one God common to both our beliefs. Then, I waved my finger to show him that God was all around us. He responded by pointing to the ground to show that God was also right here with us. I pulled out the wine and wafer to s! how that God absolves us of all our sins. He pulled out an apple to remind me of the original sin. He had me beaten and I could not continue.”
Meanwhile the Jewish community was gathered around Rabbi Moishe. “How did you win the debate?” they asked. “I haven’t a clue,” said Moishe, “First he said to me that we had three days to get out of Italy, so I said to him, Up yours! Then he tells me that the whole country would be cleared of Jews and I said to him, we’re staying right here.”
“And then what,” asked a woman.
“Who knows?” said Moishe, “He took out his lunch so I took out mine.
ZC, Did you ever read the minutes of that debate I posted above? (Between the pope and moishe?)
I’m with the Rabbi on this one. This Pope has sought to water down his own faith and may be trying to do the same to others. No deal.
The pope of what?
Who is Jesus Christ..
I guess they want to corrupt the Jewish faith is all I could think of. No was a good answer now and a good answer tomorrow.
No. They worship a different God. They are pagans who have chosen to be orphans.
Hahaha! Great story! Thanks!
Ebb Tide Not liking a Pope since 1960.
lmao!!
Old, but still good.
Kudos to the Rabbi for nipping this rude and invasive effort by the Pope to subvert Judaism in the bud.
If the Catholic church really is no longer trying to proselytize the Jews, then why does the Pope find it so important for Jews to debate him about the faiths and find a way for them to come together? Or did the Pope just say that in order to trick the Jewish community into seeing the Jewish faith through the prism of Catholicism?
The world would be a better place if gentiles did not try to force the Jews into theological discussions that they had no interest in pursuing.
The world would be a better place- if islam was shut out, from any conversation.
Are you an islamic soul?
Subvert Judaism? Just how do you think it is "subversion" when someone is trying to preach Christ Crucified. Are you a Christian, or just a Roman Catholic? Christians are compelled to share the Gospel, the Good News of Jesus Christ!
Just what did Jesus tell us? What does Paul tell us to do? Did Peter not preach to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles in order for them to find the Messiah they sought, to receive the promise of eternal life?
That claim in your post is nonsense and ignorance at the least.
Mark 16: 14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.
15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
***
Galatians 2: ... 6 As for those who were held in high esteem (Jews)- whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism-they added nothing to my message. 7 On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised,a just as Peter had been to the circumcised.b 8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. ...
***
Ephesians 2: 11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (which is done in the body by human hands)- 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. ...
What does Islam have to do with this thread? I don’t think that Islam was a part of this conversation. If you read the first post, this thread is about the sly way that the Pope is trying to convert the Jews of Rome through soft coercion and smiles, and the staunch way that the Rabbi told him not to do that.
Thanks for your correction.
What would I know about heavenly matters?
Compared to you?
I am not a Christian and I am not a Roman Catholic. I am a Jew, and I am very comfortable in the way that I, as well as my people, worship G-d and try to follow his commandments.
So many anti-Semites through the ages have begun by smiling at us and trying to get us to embrace their faith, and when they realized that we are not going to sacrifice our relationship with G-d and accept the one they are offering, they become our enemies and set out to destroy us. We still are here, and the Pope’s “warm” efforts at coercion likewise will not succeed.
Good question.
We can all know about Heavenly matters if we study. Some say we can by feeling. In my opinion feeling without study leads to general spirituality at best, and not religious faith, since — left to their own — most people will tend to take the easy or fun or near-term rewarding parts and leave the hard work on the shelf.
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