Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 03/19/2016 3:12:27 PM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: Tax-chick; GregB; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; Salvation; ...

Catholic ping!


2 posted on 03/19/2016 3:12:52 PM PDT by NYer (Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy them. Mt 6:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer

Right is that which is in conformity with our human nature. Our human nature informs every atom and every cell. It is not subject to change by governments.


4 posted on 03/19/2016 3:29:16 PM PDT by I want the USA back (The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it. Orwell.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer

Very good. I’m a big fan of presenting an argument that is both succinct and rational. Bravo.


5 posted on 03/19/2016 3:31:33 PM PDT by TradicalRC (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer

Humans operate from cost versus benefit.
Morality/gods are constructs to make us versus them, so it must benefit,but everything has a downside to it.

Example: would Hitler getting aborted been moral,would assassinating him been moral and just at any point in his time line? How about if his parents were killed?


6 posted on 03/19/2016 3:41:27 PM PDT by HWGruene (REMEMBER THE ALAMO! Really, no kidding.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer

Without moral law, the rule is, if it feels good, do it.


7 posted on 03/19/2016 3:42:39 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer

I believe there is a reason God tells us of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden. Also His admonition not to eat thereof, lest we would surely die.

Every human being now has that knowledge in them.

It is a fundamental problem, because that ability to discern good and evil, is too easily confused as a counterfeit substitute for our direct relationship with God through faith in Christ. As soon as we slip into that reliance, instead of through faith in Christ first, we fall out of fellowship with Him.

It manifests the nature of sin.

One step removed, morality can either be used as a counterfeit substitute for being in fellowship with Him, or it can scar us into legalism and good works without faith, which are simply good for nothingness in His Plan.


8 posted on 03/19/2016 3:49:04 PM PDT by Cvengr ( Adversity in life & death is inevitable; Stress is optional through faith in Christ.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer

In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.


10 posted on 03/19/2016 4:02:35 PM PDT by Scrambler Bob (As always, /s is implicitly assumed. Unless explicitly labled /not s. Saves keystrokes.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer
"There is a consensus about ... right and wrong: a consensus that prevails surprisingly widely”

You mean like homosexuality, a practice that is almost universally condemned in every society around the globe and has been for all of recorded history, but that is now being labeled as "normal"?

12 posted on 03/19/2016 4:05:37 PM PDT by IronJack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer
Ultimately, these relativists end up defeating their own arguments, since they argue that their relativism is an absolute.

"God does not exist" is an absolute statement.

13 posted on 03/19/2016 4:07:56 PM PDT by IronJack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer
""But the most remarkable thing is this. whenever you find a man who says he does not believe in a real right and Wrong, you will find the same man going back on this a moment later. He may break his promise to you, but if you try breaking on to him he will be complaining 'It's not fair' before you can say Jack Robinson. A nation may say treaties do not matter, but then, next minute, they spoil their case by saying that the particular treaty they want to break was an unfair one. But if treaties do not matter, and if there iis no such ting as Right and Wrong--in other words, if there is no Law of Nature--what is the difference between a fair treaty and an unfair one? Have they not let the cat out of the bag and shown that, whatever they say, they really know the Law of Nature just like anyone else?""

~CS Lewis

15 posted on 03/19/2016 4:11:05 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Qui me amat, amat et canem meum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer

“consensus” is just another way of saying “mob rule”.

Another reason to appreciate our founders framework of a the US being a republic - not a democracy.


16 posted on 03/19/2016 4:15:19 PM PDT by jonno (Having an opinion is not the same as having the answer...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...
When discerning appropriate human behavior, we must ask, “What is good for man?” The answer to that question is found in human nature. Human nature is inherently directed to certain ends or goals and the achievement of those goals is what constitutes human flourishing (e.g., self-preservation, knowledge of the truth, propagation and education of the species, and social existence). Therefore, correct human behavior—that which is good for man as such—is behavior that allows and helps human nature to achieve those ends. It is this standard of human nature from which morality must be derived in order for it to be rational and truly objective. Of course, for such a law to be morally obligatory, there must be a transcendent being from which human nature derives it dignity, i.e., God. But that’s for another time!

Another time indeed, as atheists can argue that correct human behavior is that which is good for man to achieve self-preservation, knowledge of the truth, propagation and education of the species, and social existence...

It is what ultimately defines these things that is the issue. Stalin and the like would argue achieving these goals required their policies, as would popes who required the extermination of those Rome decreed were heretics, as did early Prots.

However, at least the latter could appeal to a document that came to be established as the supreme s wholly God-inspired standard on faith and morality, bue to its Divine qualities and attestation, even though, as with a Constitution, it can be subject to varying degrees of interpretation.

In contrast, in atheism the individual is the supreme standard, not simply in deciding he will assent to one and interpret it, but atheism collectively rejects any one sure and supreme standard, and each can autocratically assert his own morality is superior to all moral documents, even that of God.

18 posted on 03/19/2016 4:22:23 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer
There are no objective moral principles, but rather all valid moral principles are justified by virtue of their cultural acceptance" (Ethics: Discovering Right and Wrong, 23).

That is an example of disintegrated mode of thought which results in subjectivism, emotionalism, whim worship,relativism, and skepticism.

Objective moral principles are the consequence of a rational standard of value, such as preservation of life, operating in a particular context.

21 posted on 03/19/2016 4:35:29 PM PDT by mjp ((pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, natural rights, limited government, capitalism}))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer

There is an intrinsic human nature, inherent in what Homo Sapiens is.

A moral code which aligns with that nature will produce a society which works and lasts.

A moral code which goes against human nature will produce a society which quickly collapses under its own contradictions.

As an example, Communism requires people who all practice altruism, or order to not collapse. It collapses.

The Free Market takes the intrinsic human nature to want to benefit the survival of self and family, and channels it in ways where people benefit themselves by producing products and services which satisfy the desires of others. The society grows and prospers to the extent that it stays within reality.


28 posted on 03/19/2016 5:01:55 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Big government is attractive to those who think that THEY will be in control of it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer

Why not both?

Americans are unusual in that they divide the ideas of morality and ethics. And this goes all the way back to the founding of America. At the time, the kings and princes of Europe claimed that they were anointed by God, which gave them the legitimacy to rule. Even worse, they claimed that because of this, *their* laws were written in heaven; so to oppose them was not just to break the law, but acts of defiance against God.

Ptui!, said the founding fathers. While giving full faith and credit to the morality of heaven, they were quite clear that our constitution and laws are written by men, so they could be changed by men without offending God.

But this caused a divide in the law. And while there is considerable overlap, Americans equate morality with the laws of heaven. But they are less trustful of it, because it varies from faith to faith, and even from church to church. And they get downright distrustful of politicians who frequently proclaim their morality.

Ethics, on the other hand, Americans see as conforming to the secular law. They see it as far more objective, so if a politician touts his ethics, they can get a clear view as to whether he is ethical or a liar.


31 posted on 03/19/2016 5:33:47 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer

If there is no God it is all just made up.


37 posted on 03/19/2016 7:39:02 PM PDT by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer

Thanks for posting this.


50 posted on 03/19/2016 10:22:21 PM PDT by redleghunter (Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer

“Si Dieu n’existait pas, il faudrait l’inventer” (”If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him”) Voltaire 1768


57 posted on 03/20/2016 8:31:52 AM PDT by jpsb (Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied. Otto von Bismark)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: NYer

If society cannot determine right and wrong, it is not a society.


67 posted on 03/20/2016 4:41:50 PM PDT by Jim Noble (Diseases desperate grown, are by desperate appliance relieved, or not at all)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson