Posted on 05/20/2016 10:46:18 AM PDT by detective
B.S. Lucifer convinced a third of God’s angels to rebel with him against God. If Lucifer had “a clear vision” of the Truth, he would have know he would lose his battle with God.
If you think anyone can be damned for an action that he believes is good and the will of God, then you are a heretic.
List for me the four conditions necessary for a formal mortal sin:
Your thinking about angels is mired in anthropomorphism.
The angels’ intellects are not discursive like ours. All this talk of “convincing” and “battles” is childish.
If you think that “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” means that all people who are not formal, visible members of the Catholic Church are damned, then you are an adherent of a heretical interpretation of “EENS.” You are in conflict with, among many others, the Baltimore Catechism.
Pope Francis is an evil man. His worldview is based on the KGB invention of liberation theology. He sees his goal in life as aiding and abetting the destruction of the Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. The essence of the Catholic faith is the strong and beautiful love between Jesus and the faithful.
We live in a fallen world. There is evil in this world.
Obama is evil. But Obama does not prevent me from loving America. Pope Francis is evil. Pope Francis does not prevent me from loving Jesus and the church he founded.
So it appears you deny the Catholic dogma of extra Ecclesiam nulla salus?
Islamist are doing what they think is “right”. Yet you claim God can’t condemn them if they are only doing what they think is “right”?
What was the purpose of the Great Commission?
Are you one of the ones who suspect Hell could be empty?
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The following is directly from the Baltimore Catechism, and represents what I asset to. Thus, all your questions directed to me are answered.
166. Are all obliged to belong to the Catholic Church in order to be saved?
All are obliged to belong to the Catholic Church in order to be saved.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me.” (John 14:6)
167. What do we mean when we say, “Outside the Church there is no salvation?”
When we say, “Outside the Church there is no salvation,” we mean that Christ made the Catholic Church a necessary means of salvation and commanded all to enter it, so that a person must be connected with the Church in some way to be saved.
168. How can persons who are not members of the Catholic Church be saved?
Persons who are not members of the Catholic Church can be saved if, through no fault of their own, they do not know that the Catholic Church is the true Church, but they love God and try to do His will, for in this way they are connected with the Church by desire.
http://www.cmri.org/baltimore-catechism-no2-lessons11-20.shtml
But the Catholic church has left Him hanging there, on the cross like you said only morons believe.
Then the Catholic church is wrong.
People are not saved by being *sincere* and following their consciences.
People are saved by faith in Jesus Christ.
Catholics harp on *correct* doctrine all the time and yet now, you claim *sincerity* is enough?
The heck with doctrine, right? Just follow your conscience and do what you believe is right.
So if someone claims that the right to abortion is a gift from God, then as long as they are following their conscience, they're saved. They can give abortions and be convinced they are *ministering* to women. They can receive abortions as long as they believe that they are doing the best thing for that child.
As long as the homosexuals believe sincerely that God will honor their genuine love for each other, they can practice all the homosexuality they want and still be saved. After all, they are simply doing what they are convinced is right.
Meanwhile it’s the sedes that are non-Catholic.
Hmmm.....
So, you believe that non-Catholics are merely inculpably ignorant.
The following is directly from the Catechism of Pope St. Pius X:
27 Q. Can one be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church?
A. No, no one can be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic Roman Church, just as no one could be saved from the flood outside the Ark of Noah, which was a figure of the Church.
28 Q. How, then, were the Patriarchs of old, the Prophets, and the other just men of the Old Testament, saved?
A. The just of the Old Testament were saved in virtue of the faith they had in Christ to come, by means of which they spiritually belonged to the Church.
29 Q. But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved?
A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God’s will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation.
Notice that the Baltimore Catechism neglected to mention “baptism” as a necessity to become merely “on the way to salvation”. By the way, I would venture to say that a majority of muslims and jews are aware of the basic tenets of the Catholic faith yet reject that Faith.
But it’s because of people like Pope Francis and many priests today who fail to preach EENS that souls are being lost.
The angels’ intellects are not discursive like ours. All this talk of “convincing” and “battles” is childish.
Sounds like you believe the following is childish:
[7] And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: [8] And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. [9] And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. Apocalyspe of St. John (Revelations)
That is a description of a VISION.
If it delights you to dwell on the prospect of as many people as possible being plunged into Hell, then have at it.
I will stick with the teaching of the Catholic Church.
The idea of the possible number of souls in Hell has never delighted me and it scared the heck out of the Fatima children. Or is that a “vision” also to be disregarded?
And last I checked, Pope St Pius X was a Catholic.
I never hinted that I discount visions. I merely distinguished between the imagery contained in a vision, and what may be literally true in technical theological language. For instance, many people have had visions of angels. It remains true, in theology, that angels do not have bodies.
It is obvious that you are determined to construed what I say in as negative a manner as possible, rather than in the way I meant it. You started out with the premise that I am some sort of modernist and you are determined to find evidence of this in everything I say, even when I quote the Baltimore Catechism!!!! Or, rather, if I quote the Baltimore Catechism, it, too, is modernist!!!!!
Meanwhile Piusv’s posts have been ignored. I see this is the way sedevcantists are treated here at FR by their fellow “Catholics”.
Hey, at least you aren't a sedevacantist! /s LOL
But seriously...I know I'm not one of ebb's faves but I do have to defend him here. He never said the BC was modernist. He merely stated that it did not mention baptism in answering the question you quoted.
Sure you did. You described my mentioning of a battle between Lucifer and God's angels as being "childish".
I was not referring to what people have seen in visions. I was talking about people’s mistaking figurative language about angels for the literal truth.
Angels do not have bodies, or a discursuve intellect. That is my only point.
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