Image courtesy of HarperOne
Posted on 06/06/2017 3:53:36 PM PDT by ebb tide
In 1992, the Vatican under Pope John Paul II published the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which stated, among many other things, that “homosexual tendencies” are “objectively disordered.” One of the principal theologians who shaped the document was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who would succeed John Paul II as Pope Benedict XVI. He too would take a hard-line stance against homosexuality.
Two decades later, Pope Francis has signaled what many believe to be a softening on the matter.
In 2013, when asked about gay priests, he famously replied, “Who am I to judge?” He has continued to call for the Catholic Church to treat LGBT people with dignity and respect, and to fight discrimination against sexual minorities.
But the church may be on the cusp of another baby step in this ongoing discussion with the publication of a new book by a popular Jesuit priest, James Martin: “Building a Bridge: How the Catholic Church and the LGBT Community Can Enter Into a Relationship of Respect, Compassion, and Sensitivity.”
Martin argues the church must move from a position of tolerance to inclusion when it comes to LGBT people. He criticizes the language of disorder from the catechism, calls on Catholics to stop firing LGBT people from church positions and frequently uses terms like “gay” and “lesbian” that many Catholic officials avoid.
RELATED: Top Vatican and US church officials back new gay-friendly book
The book carries with it a sense of authority. It was approved by Martin’s Jesuit superiors and is endorsed by two Catholic cardinals and a bishop. And Martin was recently appointed by Francis as consultant to the Vatican’s Secretariat for Communication, which manages Vatican TV and radio as well as the pope’s social media presence.
I sat down with Martin to discuss his message, and he told me he isn’t the only person connected to the Vatican who wishes to see the church move toward LGBT inclusion. Here we discuss what that looks like, how likely it is to happen and why he is putting his reputation on the line to fight for it.
Image courtesy of HarperOne
Simply being LGBT is not sinful, according to Catholic teaching. That’s a common misconception. Even the catechism talks about welcoming them with “respect, compassion and sensitivity,” which is the genesis of the book’s subtitle. More basically, LGBT Catholics are baptized, and so they’re as much a part of the church as the pope. Sometimes when LGBT people tell me they feel like they’re being pushed out of the church, I’ll say, “Don’t let anyone push you out. It’s your church too.”
Yes, and many parishes show what this means in practice. Of course, some parishes are more forward-thinking and have LGBT support groups, like the successful “Out at St. Paul” group at the Church of St. Paul the Apostle in New York. But there are quieter ways of welcoming LGBT people — mentioning them in homilies; encouraging them to participate as lectors, ministers of hospitality and in other parish ministries, and getting to know them personally. And, above all, listening to them.
Because those are the terms that LGBT people use. People have a right to name themselves. It’s similar to the reason we no longer use terms like “Negro.” Why not? Because the African-American community opted for terms like “African-American” and “black” over time. Catholics are supposed to treat LGBT people with “respect,” and it’s disrespectful in the extreme to continue to use names that they not only don’t use, but reject.
I’m no theologian, but I would say that some of the language used in the catechism on that topic needs to be updated, given what we know now about homosexuality. Earlier, for example, the catechism says that the homosexual orientation is itself “objectively disordered.” But, as I say in the book, saying that one of the deepest parts of a person — the part that gives and receives love — is disordered is needlessly hurtful. A few weeks ago, I met an Italian theologian who suggested the phrase “differently ordered” might convey that idea more pastorally.
Absolutely. Over the past 20 years, I’ve done what you might call an “informal ministry” with LGBT Catholics. They’ve come to me for spiritual counseling, confession and conversation. And they’ve told me the most appalling stories of being ignored, excluded and insulted — by priests and lay workers in their parishes. There is simply no group as marginalized in the Catholic Church as LGBT people. Sometimes they’re treated like lepers. So yes, I understand their pain.
I hope that the church would more fully embrace Jesus’ call to reach out to those on the margins, those who feel excluded. In the past, when it came to the LGBT community, we led with condemnations. Which is not what Jesus does. For Jesus it is, more often than not, a welcome first. Think of the story of Zacchaeus, the chief tax collector in Jericho, who would have been considered the chief sinner in the city. As he’s passing through Jericho, Jesus sees him and says, “Tonight, I must dine at your house!” It’s a public sign of welcome. That came first for Jesus, and that’s what should come first for the church.
Most likely, some church leaders will think I’ve gone too far, and some LGBT people will think I haven’t gone far enough. A few church leaders might find the call to stop firing LGBT people in same-sex marriages a challenge, and some LGBT Catholics might find my call to treat the hierarchy with respect a challenge. On the other hand, the book has been endorsed by two cardinals, one of them an official in the Vatican. So I think there’s an opening here. And the LGBT people who have read it have thanked me for writing it. So something is changing in the church. Something new is happening. I think it’s the right time for a book like this.
I will take you up on that bet. No pope will ever OK gay “marriage”.
Schism isn’t the solution. Schism is the problem.
Did you also believe no pope would ever approve of giving Holy Communion to unrepentant adulterers?
Schism?
No.
The Catholic Church stands. The catechism is very clear on homosexuality
There is the Church and there are heretics.
That’s all
Giving Communion to unrepentant adulterers isn’t a doctrine of the Church. As we’ve discussed before, it is a pastoral distortion rooted in strategic ambiguity.
Corrupt as hell.
I’m guessing Pope Francis would change the doctrine if he could. But he can’t. That’s exactly why he depends so heavily on obscure footnotes and plausible deniability.
Let's not dance around Bergoglio's material heresies.
Not only did God destroy Sodom, but Matthew 18:15-17 shows that Jesus taught that Christian congregations are to ultimately expel unrepentant sinners.
In fact, 1 Corinthians 5:13 shows that Paul reflected on Jesus’ teaching of Matthew 18 by instructing the Corinthians to expel the sexual offender.
Paul later clarified in 1 Cornithans 15:33 that bad company corrupts good character.
"Plausible deniability" flew out the window when Bergoglio approved of Schonborn's, the Argentinian, Italian, and Maltese bishops' "interpretation" of AL. Bergoglio is a stealth heretic.
Exactly. It’s a pastoral distortion of doctrine.
Exactly. Bergoglio is a stealth heretic.
catholic teaching seems to always fall short of the theologians here at Frre Republic
Suffice it to say that the catechism teaching is just fine Expelling is a weird term. Inncatholicism admonishing the sinner, instructing the ignorant and keeping good company, including not reading crappy books nor watching bad movies, is sufficient
Not good enough for the protestants who will endlessly seek fault with Catholicism but good enough for many
The Catholic Church stands. The catechism is very clear on homosexuality
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The current version is, yes, but if the present leadership of the Catholic Church has taught us anything, it’s that anything can be changed, if the leadership desires it to be.
And both were probably sodomizing the little boys-—like the pederasts that the pope protects and moves around. For Marxism, they have to destroy the Natural family and make it so you can buy and sell little children and that they have no biological connections for their radical egalitarianism (total dehumanization and destruction of ALL Natural instincts in children.).
They need to force little children to “think” it “natural” that sodomizing others is “good” and “natural” so that they can ERASE the Christian worldview-—the only worldview which rid the world of slavery, pederasty, incest, etc. The Satanists want orgies with the children/babies like in the pagan, Babylonian days so they can eat and drink their blood for eternal youth after they sodomize them (it is the “sex magic” of Crowley and Pike (Freemasonry). Read their books. All the elite bloodlines practice incest and sodomy in their secret societies (for bonding/domination/control). Sodomizing others is NEVER about “love”, only about demonic warped, unnatural desires caused by being abused as children.
Homoheresy by Fr. Oko. The Vatican/Catholic Church was taken over by homosexuals (satanists/”homomafia” as Fr. Oko named them) who were fed into the system by Bella Dodd in the 30s as a communist agent. She admitted it. The Marxists needed to get total control of the Catholic Church-—they owned the Jesuits for centuries.
The homosexualists worship Lucifer. I don’t remember who stated it, but someone major in the Catholic Church stated that the Smoke of Satan entered the Vatican with VII. Pope John Paul I was killed after 30 days because he was going to take back the Vatican Bank from the Marxist/Freemason cartel who took control of it by the 40s or before.
Control the money/banks and you can control the WHOLE system as Jefferson stated, and why the Federal Reserve has ALWAYS been unconstitutional and a Marxist takeover (Rothschild/CFR/Freemasons) of the USA. Rothschild bribed and controlled Pres. Wilson and put him into the presidency by having TR run to destroy Taft’s chances. It was all planned-—the unconstitutional Fed Reserve, the Marxist unconstitutional “income tax”—WWI and WWII-—all funded and controlled by the banksters so that Christian nations would be destroyed so they could get total control of the countries after the wars.
The current leadership of the Catholic Church has changed nothing. That is a farce that the news media has placed in the current events cycle
They have made a lot of statements and have changed nothing
They have made a lot of statements and have changed nothing.
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Other than openly giving communion to non-Catholics, allowing individual synods to offer communion to public adulterers, and working to legitimize same-sex relationships....no....they haven’t done much.
I would submit some food-for-thought. The leadership of our own country has -arguably - changed nothing (regarding the Constitution). Still think that nothing has been changed in practical terms since its inception?
Church leaders have changed nothing.
They call for more immigration and whatever mob-thinking idea suits their purposes but anyone who knows the Word of God can see they are acting heretically, that they go in a bad direction not to be followed
The Church cannot be compared to the US government, but people do it all the time. Catholics in name only in the US do it ridiculously. They say what they think the Church should do and if it doesn’t follow their thinking they reject it. They stop going to Mass and receiving sacraments
They believe that tte outcome will be that the Church will change, the way things change in the US through voting - for and against.
But the Church is not a democracy. It is much greater that that, much older than that. And founded by God Himself.
The Church has not allowed synods to give Communion to anyone outside the Church. Those who have done so in the name of the Church have done so heretically. Tge will pay. The Church doesn’t pay. Church teaching does not change nor does it depend on attendance or any approval or voting. Church leaders either follow Church teaching or they do not. But they pay in the end.
Followers of Church teaching know the Word of God either attend and receive the sacraments like they are required to do or they do not. It’s a choice. But when they do not, they end up lacking the discernment to know where Church leaders are wrong, and to follow the Word of God for themselves, not just their feelings
Followers of the Constitution know what it says they know when leaders are wrong. Whe people don’t follow the Constitution the Constitution doesn’t change. The country could change, though. The leadership can change the basis of what people believe it to be and change the country, throwing out the Constitution by mob rule which was about to happen with Hillary the Constitution depends on people to defend it
The Church always has God to defend it. It will always be there it cannot change. The leaders have not changed a thing. You cannot point to a single line in the catechism that they have changed.
This Country has God to defend it as long as people in it pray for Him to defend it
Two different things
“The Church has not allowed synods to give Communion to anyone outside the Church.”
and
“The leaders have not changed a thing. You cannot point to a single line in the catechism that they have changed.”
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Bergoglio [The HIGHEST leader in the RCC] doesn’t seem to think very highly of the Catechism on this point as he absolutely HAS allowed Holy Communion to be given to non-Catholics (in this case Finnish Lutherans). This happened at the Vatican.
Ok. A two day debate with another anti catholic freeper
Your statement says in itself that he hasn’t changed the Catechism. He has not.
The Church will always withstand such things It is bigger than people and bigger than one person
A not so casual reading of scripture will tell you that wherever sodomists are, Our Father will not be. If you allow “the dogs” in your camp, or “the price of a dog”, payment for homosexual prostitution, “I will not be with you.” So Father will not help during times of war, peace or in worship if the Sodomites are there. What could go wrong?...sarcasm off....
A not so casual reading of scripture will tell you that wherever sodomists are, Our Father will not be. If you allow “the dogs” in your camp, or “the price of a dog”, payment for homosexual prostitution, “I will not be with you.” So Father will not help during times of war, peace or in worship if the Sodomites are there. What could go wrong?...sarcasm off....
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