[SubMareener]

I am not claiming to be a Prophet. I am claiming to be a student of Abba Father YHWH's Word. I have listened to the Bible being read for several years now, and studied the text in Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek at the same time. When you get that familiar with the whole story, you begin to see connections that are often missed.

For example: Why did Jesus walk on the sea to catch up to his disciples? (Matthew 14:24) Just to show that He could? No! He did it to tell us that He was "the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river" (Daniel 12:08) This means that the key to understanding the end-times is in a proper dividing of Daniel 12:11-12.

Daniel 12
8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?”
9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 “Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 “Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
13 “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”

Nelson, Thomas. Holy Bible, New King James Version (NKJV) (p. 875). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

The words in italics were added by the translators, verse 11 reads: “And from the time the daily is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, one thousand two hundred and ninety days." So 1260+30 days after "the daily" is taken away, the anti-Christ will set up the abomination of desolation, and we know that that is 1260 from the start of Daniel's 70th week and 1260 days from the end.

So what is "the daily" that will be "taken away"? Well, it is certainly not the daily sacrifices that the Jews will present in the Third Temple, because that is what the anti-Christ will do at the midpoint. So who offers themselves as "living sacrifices" (Romans 12:1) and asks for "daily bread" (Matthew 6:11) but those who believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior and LORD?

Luke 21:36 “Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
Nelson, Thomas. Holy Bible, New King James Version (NKJV) (p. 1023). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

So, if I am still here in October, 2017, it will be because I was not "found worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass." How about you?

Here is the schedule of coming events. Get ready!

If this doesn't happen, then these dates have all been one big coincidence:

1. Only 2 remaining unfulfilled feasts, Trumpets & Atonement are fulfilled in exact correlation to the number of days given Daniel by the angel Gabriel.
2. Our timeline BEGINS EXACTLY on the beginning of the new Jewish year 5778.
3. 5778/Rosh Hoshana/Feast of Trumpets/Revelation 12 Sign Alignment/Jesus Birth Month.
4. 30 DAY GAP/New Moon again. /Tribulation Begins.
5. Midpoint Passover/AOD/IS THE HISTORIC Crucifixion Date of Jesus Christ.
6. 3.5 years from 1st blood moon 4/15/14 to beginning of trib on the timeline.
7. 7 years (-14 days) 1st blood moon to trib midpoint on the timeline.
8. 10 years from the second blood moon to the Blessed Day Kingdom Age on the timeline.
9. 10 years from first blood moon 4/15/14 to 9/13/24 (Atonement/ 2nd coming) on the timeline.
10. 11/29/47 UN Partitions Palestine to 11/27/2024 on our timeline = 77 years exact.
11. 7 years EXACTLY TO THE DAY from when Jupiter exits the womb of Virgo, to the Second Coming of Christ on our Alpha to Omega Timeline.
12. From the Blood Moon on Feast of Trumpets Sept 13,2015 to Sept 13, 2024 (Second Coming date on our Alpha to Omega Timeline) 9 Years Exact.
13. Exactly 1335 days from Sept 21, 2017 to Pentecost 2021.
14. Balfour Declaration Nov 2 1917 to 10/20/17 (trib begins) on our timeline is 12 days short of 100 yrs exact.
15. 8/21 2017 solar eclipse to the beginning of the tribulation 9/ 20/17 on our timeline: 60 days.
16. Beginning of timeline September 21, 2017 to 2nd Day of Tabernacles 9/21/2024: 7 years exact.
17. Eclipse August 21, 2017 forward 33 days to the Rev 12 Sign.
18. 40 days from the Aug 21, 2017 eclipse to Atonement.
19. Beginning of year 5778 9/21 2017 to the exact time of the Rev 12 Sign alignment = 40 hours.
20. Jesus returns to establish His Kingdom ON THE VERY DAY of the anniversary of which the UN broke ground to establish THEIRS. September 14, 1948.

[MosesKnows]

10 Reasons I Believe In A Pre-Trib Rapture

One 10 Reasons reason I don't believe In A Pre-Trib rapture.

My one reason is that the notion that it lies ahead conflicts with scripture's words that it has already passed.

It was a warning to Christians of that day, not for today's Christians.

[Carriage Hill]

Bmk.

[sasportas]

Typical pretrib tactic, they try to psyche you out, they lay the burden of proof on you, while it is they that have the burden of proof. It is they that have the truth, or so they say, and it is our job to prove all their assertions wrong.

In actuality, the pretrib rapture is built upon nothing but inferences, they have no scripture that actually states that the second coming is to take place in two stages.

It is they that have the burden of proof, give us the scripture that actually states a two stage second coming. Yes, we are aware of the scriptures that may INFER such a thing. But, for such an important concept, the very hope of the church, we need more than a inference, we need proof in black and white.

The pretrib rapture is a theory read into the word of God. The singular second coming of Christ to take place after the tribulation, however, we don’t need a theory for, it IS stated in black in white by none other than the greatest authority on the matter - Jesus Christ...in Matt. 24:29-31.

He said absolutely nothing about any other coming in that discourse than the one “immediately after the tribulation of those days.” Subsequent NT writers - like Paul - simply followed Jesus’ lead. When they wrote of the second coming it was Jesus’ singular coming after the tribulation that was being referenced.

Pretribs, of course, say otherwise. They say Paul revealed an additional coming, a coming before the tribulation, he revealed a two stage second coming. It is the pretribs, then, who have the burden of proof.

They need to bring us the scripture where Paul introduces a two stage second coming. No inference, we want to see it stated in black and white.

[Jan_Sobieski]

We are all hoping and praying for a pre-trib rapture! But you better be prepared spiritually for a mid-trib/pre-wrath rapture because if it comes to it, it is going to be difficult...

[free_life]

God's word proves you wrong.

Matt 24: 29 “

Immediately after the tribulation

...... of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

When will the Lord return for His elect? Immediately after the tribulation! The word of God is clear on the matter....all your references do not refer to when, you add the when in to fit your theology.

[mdmathis6]

“apostasia”.....”apo” in the greek root meaning “from’ as in “farthest point from”(think apogee) snd “stasia” from the greek ROOT “sta” or “to stand”
and stasia is place or a state of “ standing” as in a state of acceptable moral equilibrium.(as in moral stasis)!!

The term apostasia in the Thessalonians context literally means then that the world comes to a state of morality and lawlessness farthest from what God can ever accept.

There are other verses in Thessalonians that support the rapture(such as “harpazo” as you mention correctly which means to be “caught up”) but apostasia should not be teased into a Rapture definition.

If anything there is a harmonic contrast in the greek between the two words and in the context of the Thessalonians passage. As the world “falls away” from all moral standards of decency, Christians are “harpazo” or carried away or “caught up’ from this dark world!

Otherwise an excellent exposition of the Pre-trib doctrines though I think you stretch things a bit for example by citing Daniel symbollically as “ the raptured church” while Shadrach, Meshak, and Abednego are “suffering” Israel”, going thru the tribulation. You have a fine composition without those examples. Mentioning Noah and Lot how ever strengthens your arguments and were proper to mention!!

Anyway my opinions and a dollar 59 gets me only coffee at McDonalds... so good work! (and keep looking up, Christ may be coming this very day!)

[Mamzelle]

The woman in travail is about to deliver the remnant, the 144k — is the conclusion I draw from my studying.

[grumpa]

The preterist view makes a lot more sense to me:

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=D3BD424B0B25B83F!11116&app=Word

[editor-surveyor]

.
Wow, another brain dead pre-trib thread!

Its getting late to be talking this kind of trash, as we are just slightly more than 7 years away from the day of Trumpets as per prophecy.

We’re in the 6th seal period presently, and going fast to the day that Satan is cast out of the throne room.
.

[boatbums]

read for later

[Cronos]

The rapture is not biblical

As 1 Thessalonians 4 says

Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to [a]walk and please God (just as you actually do [b]walk), that you excel still more. 2 For you know what commandments we gave you [c]by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from [d]sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to [e]possess his own [f]vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in [g]lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. 7 For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but [h]in sanctification. 8 So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.

9 Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; 10 for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, 12 so that you will [i]behave properly toward outsiders and [j]not be in any need.

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

This very clearly REFUTES the fake 19th century secrete pre-trib rapture philosophy

What does this actually teach?

St. Paul wrote to the Thessalnian Christians because they were worried about those who died before Christ's return. Many in the ancient world believed that a person simply ceased to exist upon death. These was a rumor in Thessalonica at the time Paul wrote the letter that the dead Christians had lost out on any chance of a physical resurrection. St.Paul assures them that it was not so. In fact, "the dead in Christ will rise first" to meet Christ

The Thessalonians knew their dead would rise again but apparently feared that they would not find them in Christ’s retinue at the time of his glorious return. St. Paul assures them that their dead will indeed be there; “slept through Jesus,” a unique phrase, equivalent to “the dead who are in Christ” of 15, cf. Rom 14:7-8. “In (the) word of the Lord”

Paul The Thessalonians knew their dead would rise again but apparently feared that they would not find them in Christ’s retinue at the time of his glorious return. St. Paul assures them that their dead will indeed be there; “slept through Jesus,” a unique phrase, equivalent to “the dead who are in Christ” of 15, cf. Rom 14:7-8. “In (the) word of the Lord”

As it is clear from his answer to their second question (5:1-12) that neither he nor anyone else knows the time of the Second Coming, there can be no question here of his either teaching or hinting at the imminence of the Parousia, as many moderns have thought. His utilization of Matthew 24 is conclusive of his conformity with Christ’s own teaching on the Parousia,Rapturists make the mistake of thinking "meet the Lord in the air" is about Christ not actually touching the earth.

The word St. Paul uses for meeting the Lord "in the air" is aer the Greek word for atmosphere

This SAME word is used in Ephesians 2:2

And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.

yet no one would claim that, because of this word, Satan wouldn't influence people on the earth

A consistent rapturist reading of this wod here would mean that only airplane passengers are influenced by Satan's power

NO, when Christ returns to the earth's atmosphere, He has returned to earth

Rapturists trying to point to the "coming in the clouds" -- but this ignores the symbol of divinity in the clouds

The Bible uses three Greek words interchangeably

1. parousia - coming
2. epiphaneia appearing
3. apokalupsis revelation

Rapturists think that there is a different usage for each, but that is false - parousia is not used just for some fake "rapture" and the others for the 2nd coming

Paul doesn't mention this 19th century rapture idea as occuring before the appearance of the antichrist and before the second coming is simple: it never entered into his mind that anyone would believe Christ would rapture His Church before the final Eschaton

In the apocalypse, that is referred to as the battle with Gog and Magog, Christians will participate in that confrontation because there will be no secret rapture before it. Our comfort rests in Him who will emerge from that confrontation as the Victor.

THAT is the reassurance Paul offers, not the promise of an escape from the great Tribulation.