Posted on 09/09/2017 8:11:37 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
The response to the Nashville Statement continues with some scholars now saying it damages the church's already negative reputation with homosexuals, and lacks pastoral wisdom even though they agree with the document theologically.
Writing on his website Sunday, New York Times bestselling author Preston Sprinkle, who is currently a full-time speaker, noted that although he stood with the authors and signers of the Nashville Statement — a document published last week by the Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission that promotes the long-held Christian view of marriage and sexual ethics — it falls short on important fronts.
"I do believe that [the signers have] gone about this all wrong and it will tarnish the church's already tarnished reputation with LGBT+ people," Sprinkle wrote, saying that the statement came across as "one-sided" and that it "fails to own up to the many—MANY—mistakes that theologically orthodox believers have made in this conversation."
Sprinkle took particular issue with the "impersonal" and "outdated" language in several of the statement's articles as well as its narrow focus, as others have, especially with article 7, which argues against "adopting a homosexual or transgender self-conception."
Although former homosexuals Christopher Yuan and Rosaria Butterfield are among the statement's initial signatories and do not identify as "gay," Sprinkle maintains that what one opts to call oneself presents a more complex issue.
"[T]here are many original signers of the NS that have taken a very hard line against ever adopting the term 'gay Christian'—even if the person believes in a traditional view of marriage," Sprinkle said.
Documents like the Nashville Statement, which by their nature demand adherence, unnecessarily exclude these faithful Christians, he went on to say. He has spent many hours reading on sexuality-related topics and speaking with friends who identify as all sorts of things and concluded that "this specific conversation is ten times more complicated than most people realize, and a thousand times more complicated than article 7 makes it out to be."
About the same time as the publication of the Nashville Statement, Sprinkle released a 20-minute film called, "Dear Church: I'm Gay." While the film makes a point to endorse the historic Christian view of sexuality, it delves deeply into the pastoral nuances and complexities, telling the stories of several Christians who have had various levels of experience with same-sex attraction and homosexuality. Also included in the short film is the story of a noncelibate gay man who no longer believes his Christian faith but whose parents are Christian and have stayed in relationship with him even as they do not agree with homosexual practice.
"While we absolutely need to celebrate and promote Christianity's historic view of marriage and sexual expression," Sprinkle reiterated, he emphaized that "we need to do so much more thoughtfully and much more holistically—pounding the pulpit for truth and grace."
In similar fashion, Pastor Josh Daffern of MTV Church in Columbus, Mississippi, thought the Nashville Statement lacked pastoral wisdom and that it contained a few "fatal" flaws that gave him enough reason to never sign it.
"This statement reminds me of a married couple that constantly has arguments," Daffern wrote on his Patheos blog Tuesday, noting that as a conservative evangelical pastor he had "no qualms with the individual tenets" of the statement but, like Sprinkle, objected to some of the language used in it. And, he continued, the Nashville Statement was crafted mostly by academics and scholars who are mostly sealed off from people who do not think like them and that the document ultimately impedes the Great Commission.
Daffern mentioned that he has a lesbian woman who has been attending his church for about a month and is reportedly battling addictions and is struggling with several other issues in her life.
"If I preached on the Nashville Statement and declared my allegiance, would that help or hinder her own spiritual journey?" he asked. "Why would I be more comfortable with pastors and not Christian academics creating this document? Because orthodoxy divorced from relationships can many times lead to rhetoric that hinders (not helps) us achieve our overall mission, to lead all people to Jesus," he said.
"I don't disagree with the document. I disagree with the tone in which it was presented. I disagree with the vacuum within which it was created, and I disagree with the rhetoric this will now create that will only further drive a wedge between evangelical Christians and the LGBT community."
Yes. But I don’t recall any of those three ever repenting.
The difference between Christians and Churchains.
Christains, the Bible says what it says and means what it means.
Churchains, the bible is suggestive only and my religion is a social club where popularity is all that matters.
Tares among the wheat.
They lived private, secluded lives, as most strongmen do, so who can say? Hitler and Stalin were Catholics as children.
And Jesus said, "as the world has hated me, so it will hate you." Homosexuality, like other immorality, will NEVER be right. It is sin, and the church should call it out, just like our Lord called out immorality.
Oh good grief. Over analyzed yet again. This PC crap has got to stop. I may hurl.
Nashville Statement trended on Twitter a few days ago...and of course all the libs were fuming.
If for honesty, you want apologies
I don't sympathize
For kindness, you substitute blindness
Please open your eyes
I often hear it when processing leftism. Oh crap I'm hearing voices.
Slouching Towards Gomorrah full of self-doubt. Leftism infuses self-doubt and masks it as introspection.
Make straight the way of Lord!
How long till that is considered hate speech oh wait it probably is.
I'm beginning to understand how God can be a god of wrath as well as love.
I would be amazed if the men you mention had repented.
I would not be amazed to discover when the books are opened during the second judgment that those individuals had been turned over to reprobate hearts at some point before physical death.
But the reason they will be in the lake of fire for all eternity is because their names are not found in the Lamb’s Book of Life, not because of the things in the other books.
In that they will be no different than anyone else who does not repent, for whatever reason they did not repent ... which INCLUDES people who chose their perversions over the Savior.
And that is and will be THEIR problem.
What more could be done for them than Christ has done? Should they receive Heaven without repentance too? May as well ask if sin should increase that grace abound all the more. May it never be!
So you, why did you think to bring up such grossly wicked men as if they were the only comparisons?
Do you not realize that there are men that many people deem to be really great guys who also have perished (if we go by the witness they gave about their beliefs rather than by the wishy-washy sentimentalism of a world that thinks “good people” go to Heaven even though they reject the Gospel)?
To this I will add: it is not remarkable that people who were wicked in ways the culture deems less offensive may be damned in the very same manner to those whose crimes offends men the most.
For the natural state of men apart from Christ is not “holy”. And the culture is polluted, its judgments faulty.
Rather, if you want to marvel and be offended: YES ... there are people whose sins are legitimately among the most offensive to mankind who have repented, and they will be in the Kingdom ... even as “good men” who did not repent perish. It is even likely that some of the victims of those bad men (who repented), victims who themselves never repented, will also be damned. Just a matter of statistics that this is gonna happen.
Again, going back to your post, I’ve never seen evidence or credible claim that the men you rattled off repented. When they are judged any forced confusion on the matter will remain impossible to maintain.
But that is not your problem.
Your problem, and indeed your opportunity is have you repented? Have you been saved?
I certainly hope you have (I’m not judging you), or if not yet, that you will. The sooner the better.
So do you believe that Adolf Hitler could be in Heaven after repenting? Josef Stalin? Mao?
= = =
Do you have any evidence that any of them did repent?
When I was selling mobile homes about 16 years ago I was taken aback when a potential customer asked me out of nowhere over the phone if I had a church home. Then I remembered I was in Mississippi.
Of course not. That would be the story of the century if I did. But is it not a possibility, however slight?
Theoretically, it is possible, but for them, and other totally evil scum bags, I would say the chances of that happening, are between slim and none. Usually, by the time these jerks reach their death bed, they have already made their final decisions concerning Jesus. Deathbed conversions, though they may happen sometimes, I believe they are rare.
Another factor, is no one knows when they will reach their deathbed. They could step off the curb and get hit by a bus.
Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” - Mark 1
What Jesus did NOT preach: “I know you are having a tough time with sin, but My Father is your best friend and He loves you just as you are! I’m here to help you on your growth journey...”
The video linked within the article isn’t as poorly rendered as the article. The video gets to the point that there can be ways to bear the crosses of same-sex attraction or gender dysphoria but still live holy lives.
Unfortunately, it seems like too many Christians are still working on getting the distinctions right — the LGBT movement has hijacked all of those terms to mean “actively and shamelessly living the Lesbian/Gay/Bisexual/Transgender lifestyle.” A Christian suffering from same-sex attraction but pursuing celibacy or who has entered into a real marriage with someone of the opposite sex should NOT identify as “LGBT”, but rather is a Christian bearing the cross of same-sex attraction or gender dysphoria.
Hehe!
Some years ago I would occasionally point out the one flaw of posting the 10 Commandments in a place frequented by criminals and those of low character ... like trial lawyers and politicians (bada*boom*kisk) ... that as Paul indicated they would look on the Commandment and be reminded of things they may have been slack in violating.
The Law is good, as Paul wrote, but sin is bad and takes those opportunities to make itself worse.
In season or out of season, our responsibility is to present the Gospel.
And repenting early is always better than repenting late. That is true if “early” is today rather than tomorrow (for we ain’t promised those).
“So do you believe that Adolf Hitler could be in Heaven after repenting? Josef Stalin? Mao?”
If God lied about their possible salvation then He lied to you also about your salvation. It’s either all true and the thief on the cross went to Heaven on his death bed confession to Christ or it isn’t and we are all dead!
Me personally, absolutely they could have repented and accepted Christ at the last minute and be in Heaven right now.
This is discussed in this parable Matthew 20:1-16.
Good for them! Probably gonna involve pot luck at some point.
Though where the Kingdom is involved it is Christ who provisions the table for the marriage supper of the lamb as well as the clothes for all those in attendance.
So remember to get your pot luck lunches will y’all are still able! :)
That’s why I used the term “forced” in relation to any confusion about such individuals. Yes, ANYONE can repent. I just don’t know why these guys keep getting dredged up by all sorts of folks as if “anyone” comes to a point that it’s too scandalous for Christ just because it’s too scandalous for men.
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