Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

On the Punishment of Complete Loss
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 08-19-18 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 08/20/2018 9:07:44 AM PDT by Salvation

On the Punishment of Complete Loss

August 19, 2018

In Mass for Monday of the 20th Week of the Year we read from the prophet Ezekiel. The reading warns of the possibility that moral conditions in the Church and the world can get so awful that God must take the strongest and most severe of measures.

Ezekiel experienced the coming disaster upon Israel very personally as a last warning to the people.

Thus the word of the Lord came to me: Son of man, by a sudden blow I am taking away from you the delight of your eyes …. That evening my wife died (Ez 24:15, 17).

Ezekiel wrote in the period just before the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem. The loss of his wife was a portent of the coming disaster. God instructed him not to mourn but to turn to the people and say,

Thus says the Lord God: I will now desecrate my sanctuary, the stronghold of your pride, the delight of your eyes, the desire of your soul. The sons and daughters you left behind shall fall by the sword. Ezekiel shall be a sign for you: all that he did you shall do when it happens. … you shall rot away because of your sins and groan one to another.

As for you, son of man (Ezekiel) truly, on the day I take away from them their bulwark, their glorious joy, the delight of their eyes, the desire of their soul, and the pride of their hearts, their sons and daughters …. Thus you [are now] a sign to them, and they shall know that I am the Lord (Ezekiel 24, selected verses).

The tragic moment for Judah came in 587 B.C. The Babylonians utterly destroyed Jerusalem. The Temple was burned, and the Ark of the Covenant was lost, never again to be found (until its fulfillment in the Blessed Mother Mary). One could not imagine a more unlikely or complete destruction. Why would God allow His glorious Temple to fall at the hands of an unbelieving nation?

God is not egocentric. He does not need buildings or holy cities to show His power. His most central work is to fashion a holy people and to draw each of us to holiness. God cares more about our holiness and salvation than His own external glory or buildings and shrines in His honor.

The terrible state of affairs of ancient Israel and Judah is well documented by the prophets. God’s own people had become depraved in many ways. There was idolatry, injustice, promiscuity, and a tendency to imitate the nations around them. Further, they had become incorrigible. God often described them has having necks of iron and foreheads of brass; He called them a rebellious house. Moreover, they made the presumption that God would never destroy His own temple or allow Jerusalem to fall.

There comes a time when warnings and minor punishments are no longer effective; only the most severe and widespread of losses will purge the evil. Surely this is evident in the smoking ruins of Jerusalem in 587 B.C. Those who survived were taken to live in exile.

By the waters of Babylon, there we sat down and wept, when we remembered Zion. On the willows there we hung up our harps (Ps 137:1-2).

We should not delude ourselves into thinking that such a terrible event could only occur in the ancient world. We must consider that our condition can become so debased, so corrupted, that the only solution is the most severe of punishments, one so onerous that we cannot possibly return to our former ways, one that levels the very sources of our pride and many of our occasions for sin.

Today, we kill shocking numbers of children in the womb; no amount of preaching or teaching of medical truth seems capable of ending this shedding of innocent blood. Our families are collapsing; we are suffering the ravages of our sexual sins. In our national and international greed, we cannot seem to control our spending or ever say no to ourselves. We are saddling future generations with insurmountable debt. No matter the warnings, we don’t seem to be able to, or will not, stop. Many of the clergy have also become lost in sin; some even go about teaching error and misleading God’s people. There is indeed confusion and silence in the Church, where one would hope for clarity and words of sanity. Corruptio optimi pessima (The corruption of the best is the worst thing). Many of the faith are silent, weak, and divided, while the wicked and secular are fierce, committed, and focused.

All the while, in our affluence, we cannot imagine that a crushing end might come. Yet God said to the ancient, affluent city of Laodicea,

You say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see (Revelation 3:17-18).

It becomes hard to see how God might bring us to conversion without the severest of blows.

Nevertheless, do not wish for this. Continue to pray for conversion! The alternative is almost too awful to imagine. Most of us are too comfortable to endure what might come. Saints, sinners, and everyone in between will suffer. Ezekiel was the first to suffer in the collapse of his times, even though he was one who tried to listen and to warn.

The message of this week’s readings from Ezekiel is clear: Pray, pray, pray. Be sober that God will not hesitate to inflict severe blows if necessary, so that He might save at least some, a remnant.

This song says,

Ne irascaris, Domine, satis (Be not angry, O Lord, enough)
et ne ultra memineris iniquitatis nostrae. (And remember our iniquities no longer)
Ecce, respice, populus tuus omnes nos. (Behold, see, we are all your people)
Civitas sancti tui facta est deserta. (Your Holy City is deserted)
Sion deserta facta est, (Sion is deserted)
Jerusalem desolata est (Jerusalem is destroyed)


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic
Video
1 posted on 08/20/2018 9:07:44 AM PDT by Salvation
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Monsignor Pope Ping!


2 posted on 08/20/2018 9:10:19 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
The Temple was burned, and the Ark of the Covenant was lost, never again to be found (until its fulfillment in the Blessed Mother Mary).

A Roman Catholic belief, but not supported by the Old or New Testament.

The Roman Catholic can seemingly do nothing without Mary.

3 posted on 08/20/2018 9:12:38 AM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ealgeone

It is believed that after the Queen of Sheba came home after visiting King Solomon, she had a son by the name of Menilek. 20 years later he came to Judah and took home the original Ark of the Covenant to what became the country of Ethiopia.


4 posted on 08/20/2018 9:48:30 AM PDT by Biggirl ("One Lord, one faith, one baptism" - Ephesians 4:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ealgeone; Salvation; Claud
In Biblical exegesis, this is what is called a foreshadowing, a prophetic "type."

Mary IS the NT the Ark of the Covenant.>

Mary was beautifully prefigured by the Ark of the Covenant.

The Ark carried sacred objects --- flakes of manna and the tablets of the Law --- associated with God's saving work toward the Hebrew people. And Mary carried not manna, but the Living Bread; not the Law, but the Lawgiver; she carried not just the saving of the Hebrew people, but the Savior of the World.

5 posted on 08/20/2018 9:55:16 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (O Mary, He whom the whole Universe cannot contain, enclosed Himself in your womb and was made man.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

You would be more accurate if you said Roman Catholic eisegesis.....not Biblical exegesis.


6 posted on 08/20/2018 11:18:56 AM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: ealgeone
Biblical exegesis: as in reading a Biblical text with Biblical context, with Biblical intentions, and a Biblical Worldview, to get the Biblical Big Picture.


7 posted on 08/20/2018 11:37:59 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (O Mary, He whom the whole Universe cannot contain, enclosed Himself in your womb and was made man.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o
Biblical exegesis: as in reading a Biblical text with Biblical context, with Biblical intentions, and a Biblical Worldview, to get the Biblical Big Picture.

Only from a Roman Catholic perspective.

The RC eisegesis of the Scriptures regarding Mary has resulted in a terrible lot of in-Scriptural theology that has led to so many errors and false doctrine.

As an example....

The wearing of the Scapulars to avoid the hell-fire.

There is absolutely NO Scriptural support for this approved idolatry allowed by Roman Catholicism. NONE.

********

SCRIPTURE DOES NOT CHANGE.....Roman Catholic "tradition", has, does, and will change.

8 posted on 08/20/2018 12:29:31 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: ealgeone
" The wearing of the Scapulars to avoid the hell-fire. There is absolutely NO Scriptural support for this approved idolatry allowed by Roman Catholicism. NONE."

A good example of you totally misconstruing a Christian devotion.

[I will insert here my daily plea: Don't TELL Catholics what they believe. ASK Catholics what they believe. It's only common courtesy and common sense, and you will both learn something, and save yourself from your daily eye-rolling errors.]

A scapular is not an amulet like a rabbit's-foot; it is a sacramental LIKE A WEDDING RING. (If you're wearing a wedding ring, you're wearing sacramental. Suddenly I feel like smiling.)

The purpose of a sacramental is to be a physical object or practice which reminds us of our dedication to God, renews the significance of a Sacrament (such as a wedding ring being significant because of the Sacrament of Matrimony) and which provides us frequently with occasions to pray and profess our faith.

In addition to scapulars and other sacramentals include wedding rings, crosses worn on the person (like cross pin on the lapel) and some used in the New Testament such as blessed prayer cloths (Acts 19:11-19:12) and holy oil (James 5:14).

Sacramentals do not confer grace: I don't care how many scapulars you're wearing, if you are not in a state of grace they will not enable you to avoid hell-fire. No sacramental will do you one iota of good if they do not prompt prayer and devotion and you are estranged from God by sin.

A very good context for understanding this is how the prophets and Jesus Himself used material objects to impart blessings. Read up on how the prophet Elisha told Naaman the Syrian to bathe in the Jordan to be free of his leprosy(2 Kings 5); and how when Christ healed a blind man, He made a mud paste that He put over the eyes of the man, before telling him to wash in the Pool of Siloam. The mud paste and the Pool of Siloam were both sacramentals.

9 posted on 08/20/2018 1:27:26 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (O ye of little faith.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: ealgeone

Actually it’s supported directly by Revelation 11:19 going into chapter 12. It would be hard for it to be better supported than that.


10 posted on 08/20/2018 2:11:45 PM PDT by Campion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Campion

I don’t think you want to use those as it’s going to call into question the Immaculate Conception.


11 posted on 08/20/2018 3:22:52 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o
<<" The wearing of the Scapulars to avoid the hell-fire. There is absolutely NO Scriptural support for this approved idolatry allowed by Roman Catholicism. NONE."<<

A good example of you totally misconstruing a Christian devotion.

No....it's a good example of Roman Catholicism sanctioning idolatry.

[I will insert here my daily plea: Don't TELL Catholics what they believe. ASK Catholics what they believe. It's only common courtesy and common sense, and you will both learn something, and save yourself from your daily eye-rolling errors.]

I will say here again all I am doing is repeating what Roman Catholic sources are saying. Perhaps you should address your comments to the sistersofcarmel.com if you think they've misrepresented the scapular.

In any case...we are not to be devoted to Mary or any other person in this manner.

A scapular is not an amulet like a rabbit's-foot; it is a sacramental LIKE A WEDDING RING. (If you're wearing a wedding ring, you're wearing sacramental. Suddenly I feel like smiling.)

The purpose of a sacramental is to be a physical object or practice which reminds us of our dedication to God, renews the significance of a Sacrament (such as a wedding ring being significant because of the Sacrament of Matrimony) and which provides us frequently with occasions to pray and profess our faith.

The appeal to the wedding ring example fails for these reasons:

we do not pray TO our spouses

we do not rely upon our spouses to deliver us from the hell-fire

Sacramentals do not confer grace: I don't care how many scapulars you're wearing, if you are not in a state of grace they will not enable you to avoid hell-fire. No sacramental will do you one iota of good if they do not prompt prayer and devotion and you are estranged from God by sin.

Let's examine what the sistersofcarmel say about all of this.

True devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary consists in three things: VENERATION, CONFIDENCE AND LOVE. By simply wearing the Scapular, we can tell her every moment of the day that we venerate her, love her and trust in her protection.

This is more Roman Catholic false doctrine. We are not to "venerate", which in reality, is worship Mary or any other created being.

Mary cannot and does not protect us.

The Christian is to rely upon the Spirit and Christ for their protection (Ephesians 6 has a lot to say about this....and not once did Paul say anything about wearing a scapular or relying upon Mary for anything).

10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.

11Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

13Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

14Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,

15and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;

16in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.

17And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Ephesians 6:10-17 NASB

As Our Lord taught us to say the Our Father, Our Blessed Mother taught us the value of the scapular. When we use it as a prayer, Our Lady draws us to the Sacred Heart of Her Divine Son. It is good, therefore, to hold the scapular in the hand. A prayer offered while holding the Scapular is as perfect as a prayer can be. It is especially in time of temptation that we need the powerful intercession of God’s Mother. The evil spirit is utterly powerless when the wearer of a scapular faces temptation, calling upon the Holy Virgin in this silent devotion. “If you had recommended yourself to me, you would not have run into such danger,” was Our Lady’s gentle reproach to Blessed Alan de la Roche, one of her devoted servants.

Again, more false Roman Catholic dogma. I refer back to Ephesians 6 for how the Christian is to engage in spiritual warfare.

And again....none of the New Testament writers ever, ever note we should "recommend" ourselves to Mary. There is a whole bunch though on being a follower of Christ.

But let's examine the false promises of the apparition claiming to be Mary.

This promise is found in a Bull of Pope John XXII. The Blessed Virgin appeared to him and, speaking of those who wear the Brown Scapular, said, “I, the Mother of Grace, shall descend on the Saturday after their death and whomsoever I shall find in purgatory I shall free so that I may lead them to the holy mountain of life everlasting.”

If the shed blood of Christ is somehow insufficient to cleanse us of all sin then nothing remains to cleanse us.

Paul, led by the Spirit wrote the following: [the astute will notice the complete lack of reference to Mary or scapulars]

13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

19For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,

20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,

22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—

23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister. Colossians 1:13-23 NASB

A very good context for understanding this is how the prophets and Jesus Himself used material objects to impart blessings. Read up on how the prophet Elisha told Naaman the Syrian to bathe in the Jordan to be free of his leprosy(2 Kings 5); and how when Christ healed a blind man, He made a mud paste that He put over the eyes of the man, before telling him to wash in the Pool of Siloam. The mud paste and the Pool of Siloam were both sacramentals.

No...this is more Roman Catholic eisegesis. Both of these examples deal with being healed from an illness. The poor lost Roman Catholic is wearing the scapular to deliver them from the hell-fire.

(married/single).

But this is what the Roman Catholic has to do.....or else....too bad....no deliverance from the hell-fire.

1)Wear the Brown Scapular continuously.

2)Observe chastity according to one’s state in life

3)Recite daily the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin [interestingly, www.bostoncatholicjournal.com has this at the top of their website.]

Would you like to consecrate the hours of your day....and all that is contained within them, to God and to the Blessed Virgin Mary?]

OR

) Observe the fasts of the Church together with abstaining from meat on Wednesdays and Saturdays OR

) With permission of a priest, say five decades of Our Lady’s Most Holy Rosary OR With permission of a priest, substitute some other good work.

Again....there is ZERO scriptural support for any of this. it is just more of the works based salvation approach of Roman Catholicism. Just more evidence that Roman Catholicism is sanctioning idolatry.

**********************

I want to be clear on this.

The Roman Catholic who embraces this has departed from the gospel and is participating in idolatry.

***************

I call upon all Roman Catholics who may have a scapular or even a miraculous medal to throw them away tonight and come to a saving faith in Christ, and Christ alone.

6Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. John 14:6 NASB

24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 5:24 NASB

12 posted on 08/20/2018 5:09:35 PM PDT by ealgeone (SCRIPTURE DOES NOT CHANGE!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: ealgeone
You're not actually engaging with what I wrote.

Sorry.

13 posted on 08/20/2018 5:46:32 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts." - Sgt. Joe Friday)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o
I addressed every point I do believe.

I also compared what Rome advocates with Scripture.

A lot of Roman Catholics don't like it when Rome's beliefs are held up to the light of Scripture.

14 posted on 08/20/2018 6:18:22 PM PDT by ealgeone (SCRIPTURE DOES NOT CHANGE!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: ealgeone

We’re apparently speaking different languages.

So here’s a suggestion.

Why don’t you stop telling me what I believe as a Catholic; and instead, tell me what YOU believe. I hardly think you could go wrong.

You’ve done it before, and I thought it was interesting.

I’d be all ears.


15 posted on 08/20/2018 6:53:13 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts." - Sgt. Joe Friday)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o
We’re apparently speaking different languages.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

When Roman Catholicism says it's ok to have an idol and devote yourself to Mary, in spite of the clear teaching of the New Testament that says otherwise.....it is a different language....worse....it's a different Gospel not found in the New Testament. That is the issue at hand here.

A lot of Roman Catholicism is not found in the language of Scripture.

Why don’t you stop telling me what I believe as a Catholic; and instead, tell me what YOU believe. I hardly think you could go wrong.

As I indicated....what you personally believe about all of this I don't know.

Do you wear the Scapular or the medal?

That's a start.

However, my contrasting the differences between Scripture and the scapular isn't telling you what YOU believe.....it's comparing Scripture and the scapular.

All I can do is read what your fellow Roman Catholics have written on the topic and then compare it to Scripture to see if it's legit.....just like the Bereans did.

And as I have indicated....this whole Scapular/Miraculous Medal business fails when exposed to the Light of Scripture. I know a lot of Roman Catholics don't like that. I can only pray they compare what the apparition has said with what is given to us in the New Testament.

And this is me telling you what I believe.

16 posted on 08/20/2018 7:06:33 PM PDT by ealgeone (SCRIPTURE DOES NOT CHANGE!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: ealgeone
"When Roman Catholicism says it's ok to have an idol..."

Sorry, my eyes just rolled so far I can see the back of my brain.

G'night, dear ealgeone.

17 posted on 08/20/2018 7:10:05 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts." - Sgt. Joe Friday)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

check the freepmail.


18 posted on 08/20/2018 7:30:59 PM PDT by ealgeone (SCRIPTURE DOES NOT CHANGE!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson