Posted on 09/20/2018 4:30:19 AM PDT by marshmallow
The ceremony takes place three times a year, and failure to liquefy is seen as a portent of disaster
The blood of St Januarius has liquefied at the thrice-yearly ceremony – but the officiating cardinal fell ill.
Cardinal Crescenzio Sepe, the Archbishop of Naples, “blanched and had to sit down”, according to the news agency ANSA. The blood of the saint had reportedly liquefied, but the cardinal was unable to take the reliquary outside.
The liquefaction of St Januarius’s blood is said to take place three times a year: once in May, once in December, and once on September 19 – the feast day of the fourth-century bishop and martyr.
Many Neapolitans believe that when the saint’s blood remains solid, it portends disaster. It preceded, for instance, a famine in 1559, a cholera outbreak in 1833, the Allied bombing in 1944, and an earthquake in 1980.
According to a Catholic Encyclopedia entry from 1910, the blood normally liquefies in May and September, but in the December event the blood “remains solid more often than not”.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicherald.co.uk ...
Well, no.
It simply isn’t in the Scriptural text anywhere.
My opinion doesn’t affect what the Greek language actually says.
It is but even if it wasn't, so what? You're working on the wrong ecclesial model. Jesus came to found a Church and the Church gives us the book and its correct understanding. First came the Church then came the book. Read Acts. At this time there was no New Testament. When Paul and Barnabas got into a dispute in Antioch about circumcision, they could not say...."let's see what the New Testament says about this". It didn't exist. Instead, We're told that they returned to Jerusalem to consult with the "apostles and ancients" (Acts 15: 4-6).
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Matt !6:18
The Church is built on Peter.....a man....not on a book. It is the Church which is the primary source of the truth about revelation and salvation.
As for there being no mention of the Communion of Saints in Scripture, that's false.
St. Paul clearly speaks of the one body whose head is Christ (Colossians 1:18), and built on charity (Ephesians 4:16), whose members are the saints, not only of this world, but also of the world to come (Ephesians 1:20; Hebrews 12:22). In that communion the saints are "members one of another" (Romans 12:5), not only sharing the same blessings (1 Corinthians 12:13) and exchanging good offices (1 Corinthians 12:25) and prayers (Ephesians 6:18), but also partaking of the same corporate life, for "the whole body . . . by what every joint supplieth . . . maketh increase . . . unto the edifying of itself in charity" (Ephesians 4:16).
“You’re working on the wrong ecclesial model. Jesus came to found a Church and the Church gives us the book and its correct understanding. First came the Church then came the book. ”
No.
Christ came to die for the souls of men, that they might have eternal life.
His church is comprised of all those men and women who entrust themselves to Him and His gift alone.
2/3 of Scripture was inspired by God, preserved and recognized before the birth of Christ.
God gave the inspired Scriptures via men - all Jews - and worked to preserve it.
All glory is His alone - not the prideful Roman Rooster, who believes his crowing makes the sun rise.
“We’re told that they returned to Jerusalem to consult with the “apostles and ancients” (Acts 15: 4-6).”
Yes. This was before the completion of inspiration and during the Apostles who served as the foundation of the church.
They are now departed for glory. Christ gave us His Word, the Spirit, His presence, and teachers and pastors in local assembies to guide us.
“The Church is built on Peter”
I know Rome promotes that view, but the Church Father’s didnt believe it and the Orthodox Church doesn’t believe it.
Scripture never teaches we are to pray to departed saints, nor that the can even hear us, nor that they have any ability to do anything as good as the newest and weakest believer could accomplish by going directly to the Father.
Best.
Ping to see a second FRoman who does not believe the Roman religion is bound by the Scriptures, but actually outranks God’s Word.
Amazing.
Why bother trying to explain stuff? You are just opening yourself up to all sorts of negative responses.
Embrace your beliefs.
Don’t let anyone tell you their brand is better than yours.
Nope. The church is built on Jesus.
And it also sounds like you’re telling me that we can ignore Scripture if Rome says something different. Is that true?
And it MISSED a HELL of a lot of other things!
HST said...
Not in Brazil
YES!!!
https://www.google.com/search?q=burying+a+Catholic+idol+in+my+yard+to+help+me+sell+my+house&ie=&oe=
18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach[a] to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
Somewhere along this continum is where we'll find C a t h o l i c s .
This NOT the FIRST time you've been shown the ERROR of this statement.
As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the bishops promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1,
Likewise I accept Sacred Scripture according to that sense which Holy mother Church held and holds, since it is her right to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy scriptures; nor will I ever receive and interpret them except according to the unanimous consent of the fathers. — http://mb-soft.com/believe/txs/firstvc.htm
Yet as the Dominican cardinal and Catholic theologian Yves Congar O.P. states,
Unanimous patristic consent as a reliable locus theologicus is classical in Catholic theology; it has often been declared such by the magisterium and its value in scriptural interpretation has been especially stressed. Application of the principle is difficult, at least at a certain level. In regard to individual texts of Scripture total patristic consensus is rare...One example: the interpretation of Peter’s confession in Matthew 16:16-18. Except at Rome, this passage was not applied by the Fathers to the papal primacy; they worked out an exegesis at the level of their own ecclesiological thought, more anthropological and spiritual than juridical. — Yves M.-J. Congar, O.P., p. 71
And Catholic archbishop Peter Richard Kenrick (1806-1896), while yet seeking to support Peter as the rock, stated that,
“If we are bound to follow the majority of the fathers in this thing, then we are bound to hold for certain that by the rock should be understood the faith professed by Peter, not Peter professing the faith.” — Speech of archbishop Kenkick, p. 109; An inside view of the vatican council, edited by Leonard Woolsey Bacon.
Your own CCC allows the interpretation that, “On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ build his Church,” (pt. 1, sec. 2, cp. 2, para. 424), for some of the ancients (for what their opinion is worth) provided for this or other interpretations.
• Ambrosiaster [who elsewhere upholds Peter as being the chief apostle to whom the Lord had entrusted the care of the Church, but not superior to Paul as an apostle except in time], Eph. 2:20:
Wherefore the Lord says to Peter: 'Upon this rock I shall build my Church,' that is, upon this confession of the catholic faith I shall establish the faithful in life. — Ambrosiaster, Commentaries on Galatians—Philemon, Eph. 2:20; Gerald L. Bray, p. 42
• Augustine, sermon:
"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer. — John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327
Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.
• Augustine, sermon:
For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)
• Augustine, sermon:
And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289
• Augustine, sermon:
Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95
• Augustine, sermon:
...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193
• Augustine, Psalm LXI:
Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)
• Augustine, in “Retractions,”
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.
• Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:
'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.
• Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:
You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].
• Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:
'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455
• Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:
Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)
• Cyril of Alexandria:
When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.
• Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):
“For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'
“For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)
• Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II): Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.
It is the Church which is the primary source of the truth about revelation and salvation.
Only TWO?
...for only CATHOLICS can do THAT with absolute assurance!
Call no man father...
Lots of things to take issue with in your post but I'd like to address this.
The point is that Jesus built his Church on men...Peter and the Apostles.....and not on a book. The quote from Matthew's Gospel makes that clear. The book is the custody of the Church and not vice versa. The Orthodox certainly accept this. The differences between Catholic and Orthodox relate to the jurisdiction of those men, especially Peter but Orthodox absolutely reject the Protestant proposition of Sola Scriptura.
History proves this to be true. The Church has always decided questions of doctrine and ministry through Church Councils, e.g. Nicea, presided over by men, just as Paul's issue with the folks in Antioch was decided by a council in Jerusalem before the New Testament existed. This is the model for Church governance which has come down to us from apostolic times.
Thanks for the thread.No put down to you -marshmallow but it would have worked better in caucas.The entire point was missed.
[For Full Story]
From Italian Insider (archives): Cardinal was at center of dispute:
NAPLES — “With this present letter, I’d like to file a complaint against the Archbishop of Naples, Cardinal Crescenzio Sepe, for severe negligence in carrying out his duty.” That’s how victim “Diego” (given this pseudonym to protect his identity) started a letter he sendt to Pope Francis and Perfect Cardinal Marc Ouellet of the Archbishop Congregation last October.
https://spiritdailyblog.com/news/cardinal-collapses-during-miracle-of-san-gennaro
You've already accepted the premise that you're the authentic interpreter of Scripture and that the Catholic Church's teaching must square with your understanding.
That's the problem, right there.
The Great Commission was a mandate to the Apostles and their successors, not a book distribution event.
LOL.....really.....who showed me that? It's certainly not in that wall of text.
Think about the chronology, Elsie. What happened in the times before there was book?
Think about the early Christian communities, such as the folks at Corinth, for instance. The Church was growing and making converts through the preaching of Paul and the other evangelists and when he wasn't with them he wrote them letters. The Christians at Corinth received Paul's letters as instruction from an authority figure; the evangelist who brought them the Gospel. These letters were subsequently canonized and assembled into Scripture by men but the Gospel was already spreading through the Apostles and those whom they consecrated.
The early Christians at Corinth did not have to wait until 1Corinthians became a part of the New Testament in order to listen to its teaching.
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