Posted on 12/12/2019 8:59:30 AM PST by ebb tide
Romans Chapter 1:20 to 1:32 gives a pretty good insight into the issue
Regrettably, not a pleasant explanation
Laugh all you want, it doesn’t make your premise true.
Exactly.
There can be little question that that's precisely what he's doing today. As someone (maybe around here) said recently, "Looking for the Chastisement? This is it!"
God is simply allowing us go our way without him and its not working out so well for us.
Even agnostics and atheists are coming to the realization that a world absent of God is not a very good place to be
Chastisement? More like revelation, revealing what is at the heart of the Roman Catholic religion.
How many times will this canard be trotted out after it has been repeatedly pointed out that this is not Catholic teaching?
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Nonsense. At some level it MUST be part of Catholic teaching. The authority of Rome rests on the assumption that the hierarchy (taken as a body) cannot be wrong on matters of central importance (like dogma). If God can permit it to be wrong, then it implies that any aspect of Church teaching could be wrong due to the “’fallibility of men”. That’s a very shaky foundation to build ‘The True Church”’ upon.
The conflation of True Church and Catholic Chruch needs addressing. The One True Church is made up of ALL BELIVERS since the day of Pentecost when The Holy Spirit began indwelling believers. The Roman Catholic Church is a sham designed to use Christ to empower a hierarchy of men spouting traditions.
All I’m saying is that Roman Catholicism (traditionally) does equate itself in totality with the True Church. But IF (and this is an important IF) it is going to do that, then they must -at some level - be infallible in determining dogma and doctrine. If not, then at any point (including the early history of the Church), fallible men could pervert the teachings of Christ without repercussion from God and lead all future generations’s of men and women astray with false doctrine.
To put it another way, would Christians of all modern denominations say that God spoke to the Apostles and Early Church Fathers, but they all largely chose to ignore God AND God simply permitted them to ignore him without “righting the ship”’. It’s unthinkable if we are to maintain the integrity of teachings going back to Christ. Furthermore, it seems incomparable with God’s Providence to hold that only a small group of people through time have taught “True Christianity”, while the vast majority of those wishing to be Christians have practiced falsehood.
Paul warned that those who add anything to faith in Christ alone for being born again, that is anathema. Catholic Apologists are all over the map when one cites the sacraments as Catholic necessity to be among the 'going to heaven'. They even use the 'sin of presumption' to stear adherents from the joy of knowing in the here and now that their personal belief in Jesus as savior and Lord has them individually counted among the born again. Catholicism PRESUMES one cannot know they are heaven bound until they have been faithful to the sacraments! And even then at death they have been taught that their soul goes to 'purgatory' for final cleansing before Heaven is a reality for them.
The WORK that Jesus did suffering on that cross for them is then twisted to infer they must suffer in purgatory to be worthy of heaven. THUS the time in purgatory is infact works, to obtain eternal reward.
Salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone, with no works of suffering in a mythical purgatory to be clean enough for Heaven. Roman Catholicism is an anathema to Christ alone.
I’m very fond of Paul, but even the belief of what Paul says about Christ is based upon the presumption that Paul’s sinfulness did not get in the way of communicating the truth about Christ. Furthermore there is a presumption that EVEN IF Paul got some things wrong (for example, understating the importance of works as a sign that one possesses saving-faith), that God inspired other New Testament writers (such as James) who provided further perspective on the importance of the “fruits of faith” (namely works), and that this perspective was also included in the New Testament. In the end ALL orthodox Christians must assume that at least some faith-leaders down through the ages preserved the true teachings of Christ (either through their own free will OR because God himself intervened to insure that the true faith was not corrupted).
I meant to say “understating the importance of works”. I really wish FR had an edit function.
Looking at the state of humanity in Paul’s day, it is safe to say that much of what is said about ‘works which show one is born again’ can be seen as the behavioral changes of those to whom God has imputed the righteousness of Christ. Those who take the meaning to be ‘social justice’ type deeds (feeding the poor, clothing and sheltering the needy, etc.) miss the lengths to which Paul, and John, and Peter went to focus upon change of personal behavior.
Catholics have the most bizarre thinking on how Jesus treats His church.
He will rebuke His church as He did in Revelation 2&3 but He does not send wolves in sheep’s clothing who ravish the church to *chastise* His bride.
Besides, God has already given us instructions in His word on church discipline and how to deal with immorality in Scripture. It’s up to those who claim to follow Him to follow those instructions that He left. When your religion’s leadership starts obeying what God has already clearly laid our before them, THEN you can expect to see God act, but i don’t see how He’s under any onligation to bail you guys out as long as you continue to disobey Him.
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