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To: Cronos

Do not forget that the truly miracle-generated bread (Jn. 6:26-27) or the miracle-generated “wine” (= non-alcoholic grape juice)(Jn. 2:7-8) was neither really Jesus’ Flesh nor Jesus’ Blood, and saved no one that ate of it; indeed, did not seem to even promote their spirituallty, at most only their temporal body and soul.


6 posted on 04/14/2021 9:53:30 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: imardmd1; ADSUM
"grape juice"? Have you any inkling how this is impossible due to fermentation?

You can drink grape juice only within a couple of weeks of the fall harvest season.

the only kind of wine was alcoholic wine. The Greek word, oinos, or wine, means wine. The Greeks had another word for fruit or grape juice, which was glukos.

There is no word for non-alcoholic wine in the New Testament. The word oino means fermented grape juice as there was no process for keeping any juice for more than three days without it fermenting. Teetotaling is simply not a part of the early New Testament belief.

Before refrigeration and pasteurization in the 1800s, they had no way to preserve grape juice past the harvest season of fresh grapes. The people made wine from the grape juice as a way to preserve it. The raw grape juice would ferment into wine if left on its own, but would probably end up as vinegar. (Actually most of the wine that wasn’t consumed with in a month or so likely ended up as vinegar.)

Two events in the Gospels prove that Jesus drank wine.

  1. The first is the wedding at Canna - the first miracle when he turned water into wine because the feast’s steward told Mary that he was running out of wine. So She turned to Her Son and said, “Wine.” He said, “Okay, Mom,” ordered the empty jugs and soon there was more wine. The Steward tasted it and said, “We put out the good stuff first and then when the guests are a bit tipsy, we serve the rot gut. But You have brought out the best for later. Wow.”

    This really doesn’t prove that He drank what he produced - but!

  2. In the second instance, Jesus is talking to a crowd about Himself and John the Baptist and He complains: “You guys make fun of John because he eats locusts and honey but complain that I go to parties and pig out and drink lots of wine.”

    Now for those who read the KJV, the actual AME is “…glutton and winesop…” Guess what “winesop” translate into: drunkard.

Your grape juice at your cult does rejects Jesus' teachings, so naturally also rejects history, right?

Are you, imardmd1, humble enough that you can bow before the Word of God, Jesus Christ who tells us to eat of His body, or will you follow your council of fallible, wrong-headed, religionists?

18 posted on 04/15/2021 12:50:13 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: imardmd1
John 6:26-27 - this is first the multiplication of the loaves - a prefiguration of the way the Eucharist is spread across the world
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
The entire point of John 6:26-27 reflects Matthew 26:26-28
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Jesus had fed 5000 people with a handful of food. He had then preached a sermon that drove many o f his disciples away.

The multiplication of the loaves, the "this bread is my body that you must eat" makes complete sense when you see the Last Supper

Jesus clearly defines that we must do ("work") for God, then eat of His body

The Analogy has been clearly explained. There is no doubt about this -- the flesh that we eat for eternal life cannot be meant in only a "figurative way" as you say or "spiritually speaking" - because Jesus equates this with the flesh of the crucifixion -- and that is literal as well as the Eucharist is literally the body of Christ

1,584 posted on 05/20/2021 12:49:25 PM PDT by Cronos
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