Posted on 10/07/2021 9:51:33 AM PDT by JAG 5000
Thank you for your interest in the thread and for your comments.
Generally people who change their views about the Christian future, do so very slowly.
When I write OP’s on Christian Eschatology, one of my purposes is to look for people who are looking.
A lot of people are not looking.
And that’s okay.
However there are some out there that are looking.
They are looking for a way to actually come to believe, based upon the teachings of the Bible, that
the Christian Church is going to actually be successful in carrying out her Lord Jesus’ Great commission to
go and make disciples of all nations.
Postmillennialism correctly teaches that the Christian Church is going to be successful in Christianizing
the world BEFORE Jesus returns . . . however in my opinion, the very best way for the seeker to come
to know that and to believe that is to be willing to spend a few dollars and some time to study the
massive amount of Biblical evidence supporting this victorious Christian eschatology.
If one decides that one does not desire to do that, and wants to stay where he is ~ that is their choice and I respect
that.
Then there are those who after doing their private study, still are unconvinced. We Postmillennialists try to
reach as many as we can ~ but we don’t convince everybody.
But we are making steady progress.
In my view, if you are interested in a private study, the very best place to start is here:
He Shall Have Dominion: A Postmillennial Eschatology: Gentry, Kenneth L: 9781734362039: Amazon.com: Books
He Shall Have Dominion: A Postmillennial Eschatology [Gentry, Kenneth L] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. He Shall Have Dominion: A Postmillennial Eschatology
www.amazon.com
Its a very popular book and its not cheap. You’ll pay for it. $39.95 Free S/H
About the cost of one meal in a nice restaurant for 2 people.
My view is Gentry’s He Shall Have Dominion is well worth the $39.95.
I have bought I think about 5 or 6 copies at that price to give away to family and friends.
I will gladly fan out the filthy lucre to push forward what I am convinced is the message of
victory for Jesus’ Christian Church. We really are going to Christianize the world BEFORE
Jesus returns. And Gentry’s 600 + page work is a massive argument that presents the
evidence for that PLUS answers all the problem passages that at first glance, appear
to contradict that proposition.
Best Regards.
JAG
Why try to imply that I did?
Well, if the Book is read...
9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:
“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
It’s early yet...
This seems to be lacking.
However, there seems to be a LOT of reliance upon what others have written about what they think the Bible teaches.
“Can you produce one (1) just one Bible verse in 2 Thess 2 or Revelation that makes a connection to John’s antichrists (little a, plural) ?”
No, because “antichrists” plural doesn’t refer to the same thing as what Christians refer to as “the Antichrist”. Don’t blame others for you confusing the issue. Certainly we can see that 2 Thess 2 speaks of a figure that can clearly be called “antichrist”, as they fit the definition given by John, and a figure that is distinct and worthy of note beyond all the “little a” antichrists that are referred to in general, since he is important enough to be prophesied as a sign of the end times.
First we have in verse 1 of 2 Thess 2:1-2, the setting of the scene:
“1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.”
We see here that this was written specifically to answer questions about the second coming of Jesus Christ, and how we can know whether it is at hand or not, so we are clear about the time frame that will be discussed.
“3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”
Now we see that there is something that must happen before the second coming, a sign if you will, and this sign is the appearance of a man, called the “man of sin” and the “son of perdition”. His identifying trait is also given here, that he will exalt himself above all, even God, and he will usurp the rightful place of God.
We learn much more about this figure in Revelation, and I think whether you call them “Antichrist”, “Man of Sin”, “Son of Perdition”, “the Beast”, etc, matters very little, since they clearly are all the same figure.
“Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry makes a very good argument that Paul’s “man of lawlessness” and John’s “beast” in Revelation was the evil-insane first century Nero Caesar.”
It can’t be a “very good argument” because 2 Thess 2 links this figure directly to the time of the second coming of Christ, which the gospels and Revelation associate with a whole plethora of things that have never yet happened on planet earth.
No need to imply anything. I went by exactly what was cited.
`
That is incorrect.
2 Thess 2 is NOT in our future.
2 Thess 2 is in our past.
And you are issuing assertions.
Assertions are not proof.
You made some magnificent assertions.
I love assertions.
Here is one right here:
Pigs can fly.
You say. “Then why is it, that we have never seen pigs fly?”
That’s easy.
I can solve that with another assertion.
Here tis:
Pigs only fly when humans are not watching them or
videoing them.
Your “argument” is 2 Thess 2 says so and so because I SAY IT DOES.
And THAT is a bald assertion. In the same category as Pigs Can Fly.
Best
JAG
``
“2 Thess 2 is NOT in our future.
2 Thess 2 is in our past.”
Absurd. That would require that Christ already has returned. 2 Thess 2 specifically talks of the signs of the “coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” and when “the day of Christ is at hand”. It can’t get any more explicit than that. We know from other verses that Christ’s return will be a visible event, seen by every person and every nation, so we can be quite certain it has not happened yet.
“Your “argument” is 2 Thess 2 says so and so because I SAY IT DOES.”
No, I argue that it says so because it clearly says so. You are the one who will have to explain away the plain language of the verses because it’s inconvenient to your favored interpretation.
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