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1 posted on 09/24/2022 9:27:48 PM PDT by OneVike
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To: OneVike

Humans create evil. God gave them free will to do so.


2 posted on 09/24/2022 9:30:13 PM PDT by Jamestown1630 ("A Republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: OneVike
Ok, so can we then point to any passages that might elude to God condoning evil?

Editor!!

6 posted on 09/24/2022 9:51:19 PM PDT by gundog ( It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen. )
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To: OneVike

Evil is not a thing in and of itself, but the absence of righteousness and, ultimately, (derivative) holiness which created being had in their original state.

The resolution of sin and therefore evil is to be conformed to the likeness of Christ by having holiness imputed to you on account of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

In our mortal lives though, we still have what has been called the body of death and it is still trying to get us to obey it rather than us obey the Holy Spirit— and I’m convinced that it will be a nice little moral / religious body of death if that’s what it takes to get us to obey it (I associate that with the works of wood, hay and stubble that are consumed in judgment vs those that do not perish which must come from actual obedience to the Holy Spirit).

When saints are perfected in resurrection then the body of death will be removed and the only nature that we will have is in accordance to the new birth.

Otherwise, the tree our parents ate from was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not just evil. In becoming merely moral beings they fell from the created derivative holiness they had possessed. They did not become as bad as bad can be instantly but merely capable of being bad.

Lacking holiness is mankind’s defect, what separates us from the Lord.

And having His Holiness imputed to us, being sealed by it, resolves the fall, ultimately in fact and not just positionally ... but even then it will remain His righteousness.

I believe these views are sustained by Scripture, including the truth that no one will be condemned because of what will be found in the books recording everything they did but only because their names are not found in the Lamb’s Book of Life.


8 posted on 09/24/2022 9:52:09 PM PDT by Rurudyne (Standup Philosopher)
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To: OneVike

Democrats?


9 posted on 09/24/2022 9:53:47 PM PDT by TBP (Decent people cannot fathom the amoral cruelty of the Biden regime.)
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To: OneVike

Good is not the source of evil.

Good can not be the source of evil.


10 posted on 09/24/2022 9:54:03 PM PDT by Arcadian Empire (The Baric-Daszak-Fauci spike protein, by itself, is deadly.)
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To: OneVike

somebody who doesn’t have the option to be evil, can’t be good

without the possibility of being evil, there can be no “good”
good, requires the possibility of evil


11 posted on 09/24/2022 10:00:15 PM PDT by Chode (there is no fall back position, there's no rally point, there is no LZ... we're on our own. #FJB)
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To: OneVike

Democrats.

They ruin everything they touch.

Pretty much sums it up.


12 posted on 09/24/2022 10:06:22 PM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.She was, indeed, a hottie… Rest in peace, Joanne.)
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To: OneVike

Satan created Evil as he become prideful in himself and challenged God in his role as Creator thus was kicked out of Heaven with a 1/3 of his following Angels ...


19 posted on 09/24/2022 10:58:59 PM PDT by dpetty121263
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To: OneVike

Evil comes about when the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is not foremost in our minds, driving everything we do.

Evil is the absence of God in thought, deed and desire.

Perhaps it’s not so much a thing in and of itself, but a result of absence of God in one form or another?

I have often thought of human nature as a horse with a saddle on it. If God is not in the saddle, Satan is.

Satan’s mind drifted away from the thoughts of God, and focused on himself. The father of lies was born in that instant.


20 posted on 09/24/2022 11:33:18 PM PDT by griffin (When you have to shoot, SHOOT; don't talk. -Tuco)
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To: OneVike

I should have added, the saddle of human nature is NEVER empty.


21 posted on 09/24/2022 11:35:37 PM PDT by griffin (When you have to shoot, SHOOT; don't talk. -Tuco)
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Evil is intrinsic to Existence — that naturally occurring phenomenon that inhibits & destroys human Life.

As we are creatures of God, God has provided guidance as to how best navigate the harsh reality of Existence.


22 posted on 09/24/2022 11:49:15 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: OneVike

Hillarys father?


23 posted on 09/25/2022 12:41:01 AM PDT by digger48
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To: OneVike

It’s like asking Who Created Darkness. We live this brief performance in duality - everything comes with its counterpart or other side.

In duality the existence of light creates the possibility of shadow. The existence of righteousness creates the possibility of lack of righteousness - evil.

It’s a package deal.


24 posted on 09/25/2022 12:48:40 AM PDT by JustaTech (A mind is a terrible thing)
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To: OneVike

Evil is not a thing that is created, but an absence of good, just like darkness is an absence of light, not a created thing in and of itself.

No, God did NOT create evil.


26 posted on 09/25/2022 1:30:54 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith….)
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To: OneVike
There is a difference between "Creating Evil" and following evil. God created everything that is created, so naturally God created evil.

Isaiah 45:7 tells us that God creates calamity and Genesis tells us that He created Light and darkness.

It is up to you to choose what you follow however, just as it was Satan's choice to want to be higher than God and he was tossed out of Heaven. Just because there is evil doesn't mean you have to follow it. The choices you make is what God will judge in the Last Days.

There wasn't a void with nothing in it but the void and evil in Genesis. There was nothing and then there was something including darkness and evil when God said let there be light. Then God separated the light from darkness ever since.

I always get exercised when people say "God wouldn't do that!", when I can show dozens of verses that show God giving plagues, killing evil people, splitting the earth open, and killing Arron's sons. God killed Judah's 2 pagan sons just because they tried to marry Tamar. God killed every man woman and child on earth in the Flood and will kill 2/3 of the Earth in the Last Days. One angel killed 185,000 men in one night and killed 2 followers of Jesus for lying about selling their property. God has no problem killing to get what He wants. Remember why Saul was not allowed to be king any longer.

27 posted on 09/25/2022 1:32:59 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: OneVike

Bkmk


29 posted on 09/25/2022 2:42:43 AM PDT by kelly4c
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To: OneVike

Sin entered the universe when Lucifer rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven. Lucifer’s sin was pride because he wanted to be like God, “I will make myself like the Most High.” See Isaiah 14:12-17. Lucifer lost his position and became Satan.

Lucifer was created by God and anointed as a guardian cherub. “You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.” Satan entered into the serpent, the most subtle of creatures and tempted Adam and Eve in Eden, the garden of God. “From the day you were created, you were blameless in your ways—until wickedness was found in you.” See Ezekiel 28:11-17.

Adam and Eve sinned because they disobeyed God. God wanted them to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and of the tree of life, to retain knowledge, wisdom and purity (but without sin) as immortal beings but that plan was delayed. Adam and Eve chose to disobey God because they had free will.

Free will was working from the human perspective but from God’s perspective it was predestination. Jesus Christ restored all things by his death and resurrection. Through one man sin entered into the world and through one man sin leaves the world.

Our hope is in Jesus Christ and God’s promise of eternal life. Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” Behold all things are new and hope has been restored, not by our own power but by Christ who lives in us. We are saved by grace through faith, it is a gift from God. Sin no longer has a hold on us. We are destined to receive all spiritual blessings in heavenly places, in Christ; to drink the living water and eat from the tree of life, to receive a new name and walk with God in Eden, the garden of God. This was the plan from the beginning and it remains one of many great mysteries. In the end evil will be nothing, nihil.


32 posted on 09/25/2022 4:53:42 AM PDT by thepoodlebites (and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.)
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To: OneVike
Creating evil is one thing: allowing the devil to engage in his malevolent behavour in order to chastise or punish man is another. But the larger issue is that finite man who is blind to the Big Picture is in no position to judge the morality of the actions or inactions of an omnipotent and omniscient Being, and in doing so then man is essentially presuming omniscience. We cannot judge God even though I sometimes irrationally protest what He does.

Because only God, as the omniscient omnipotent author and giver of life, and who alone knows what every single effect will be of a life and even of your next thought, not only for this life and for eternity, has the right to take innocent life for any reason. For He alone can and will make everything work out for what is Good and the good of those who choose Him over sin. (Rm. 8:32)

Also, the instances of God commanding children, infants, and pregnant women to be killed were those of, after much longsuffering by God - who is grieved by man (Genesis 6:5,6) to whom He gave good things and good laws (Psalm 19; James 1:17; Acts 14:15–17) while not needing anything from man (Acts 17:25) - were those of executing generationally wicked nations.

Thus placing a stop from their infectious cultural replication, and delivering the innocent from becoming like their parents, while even the guilty will have lesser punishment than if they had been allowed to continue in rejection and defilement of conscience. (Luke 12:47,48; 20:47)

Likewise is God executing wicked souls directly, as is His allowing such to do evil, which can be a judgment on others for disobedience, (1 Co. 11:32) or for chastisement for character sake, (Job) as well as in patience that they may repent.

In short, the presumption that a omniscient and omnipotent, just and merciful Being was unjust in allowing evil or in sending judgments presumes omniscience and omnipotence on the part of the one who is judging God (not that I am not guilty of that, at least as a emotional yet irrational reaction).

For laws which deem something as evil are based upon principals related to their nature and what their effects will be, and with intent and accountability factoring in assigning degrees of guilt. And thus acts such as stealing are crimes of society, but in just wars they are justified in the light of intent and the effect of fighting an evil aggressor. Likewise allowing one to choose wrong answers or actions, and experiencing effects are justified under certain conditions.

But when a Being knows what all the effects will be of even our next hesitation (and all that we do or do not do results in effects in varied way and to varying degrees) not only in this mere speck of our earthly existence as mere specks in humanity and the universe, but for eternity, and can and make all work out for what is Good, and just, yet showing mercy and grace, then mere exceedingly finite ignorant man can hardly sit in judgment on such a Being.

Thus, man cannot rationally impugn iniquity to God for His actions or inactions unless one presumes omniscience and omnipotence for man. Which makes man to be as God, which is simply irrational.

And the reason man is wrong for taking innocent life as well as to judge God for doing so is because man neither,

*created life nor can give it in the eternal realm;

*knows all about the subjects at issue, including all their thoughts, intents and motives;

*can foresee, in all depth and detail, how a life will turn out and effect, now and for the future;

*has the power to orchestra all the actions and works that man is allowed to engage in to at the least ultimately work out for what is Good.

And thus man cannot presume to know that,

*It was not better in the light of all that can be know that, as regards the Flood for instance, God acted as He did, including delivering the innocent from becoming like their damnable parents, and rehabilitating the earth. And making animals to be fertilizer and fuel for man.

*The creator who gave life and all good things has not the right to take it, and cannot recreate it.

Conversely, you cannot rationally impugn iniquity to God for taking innocent life or man and animals unless you as establish that the God you accuse of injustice does not possess all these attributes, but that you do. In which case you are not dealing with the God of the Bible, not the reality of the human condition.

See Theodicy in dealing with alternative proposals as to how God should have operated.

33 posted on 09/25/2022 5:04:50 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him who saves, be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: OneVike
The greatest evil ever was permitted by God to bring about the greatest good ever. Christ was crucified to give us the hope of heaven.

Oh happy fault!

38 posted on 09/25/2022 5:16:07 AM PDT by frogjerk (I will not do business with fascists)
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To: OneVike

St Thomas Summa:

Article 2. Whether the supreme good, God, is the cause of evil?
Objection 1. It would seem that the supreme good, God, is the cause of evil. For it is said (Isaiah 45:5-7): “I am the Lord, and there is no other God, forming the light, and creating darkness, making peace, and creating evil.” And Amos 3:6, “Shall there be evil in a city, which the Lord hath not done?”

Objection 2. Further, the effect of the secondary cause is reduced to the first cause. But good is the cause of evil, as was said above (Article 1). Therefore, since God is the cause of every good, as was shown above (I:2:3; I:6:4), it follows that also every evil is from God.

Objection 3. Further, as is said by the Philosopher (Phys. ii, text 30), the cause of both safety and danger of the ship is the same. But God is the cause of the safety of all things. Therefore He is the cause of all perdition and of all evil.

On the contrary, Augustine says (QQ. 83, qu. 21), that, “God is not the author of evil because He is not the cause of tending to not-being.”

I answer that, As appears from what was said (Article 1), the evil which consists in the defect of action is always caused by the defect of the agent. But in God there is no defect, but the highest perfection, as was shown above (I:4:1). Hence, the evil which consists in defect of action, or which is caused by defect of the agent, is not reduced to God as to its cause.

But the evil which consists in the corruption of some things is reduced to God as the cause. And this appears as regards both natural things and voluntary things. For it was said (Article 1) that some agent inasmuch as it produces by its power a form to which follows corruption and defect, causes by its power that corruption and defect. But it is manifest that the form which God chiefly intends in things created is the good of the order of the universe. Now, the order of the universe requires, as was said above (I:22:2 ad 2; I:48:2), that there should be some things that can, and do sometimes, fail. And thus God, by causing in things the good of the order of the universe, consequently and as it were by accident, causes the corruptions of things, according to 1 Samuel 2:6: “The Lord killeth and maketh alive.” But when we read that “God hath not made death” (Wisdom 1:13), the sense is that God does not will death for its own sake. Nevertheless the order of justice belongs to the order of the universe; and this requires that penalty should be dealt out to sinners. And so God is the author of the evil which is penalty, but not of the evil which is fault, by reason of what is said above.

Reply to Objection 1. These passages refer to the evil of penalty, and not to the evil of fault.

Reply to Objection 2. The effect of the deficient secondary cause is reduced to the first non-deficient cause as regards what it has of being and perfection, but not as regards what it has of defect; just as whatever there is of motion in the act of limping is caused by the motive power, whereas what there is of obliqueness in it does not come from the motive power, but from the curvature of the leg. And, likewise, whatever there is of being and action in a bad action, is reduced to God as the cause; whereas whatever defect is in it is not caused by God, but by the deficient secondary cause.

Reply to Objection 3. The sinking of a ship is attributed to the sailor as the cause, from the fact that he does not fulfil what the safety of the ship requires; but God does not fail in doing what is necessary for the safety of all. Hence there is no parity.


43 posted on 09/25/2022 5:25:47 AM PDT by frogjerk (I will not do business with fascists)
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