End Times Ping
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Maranatha!
There is precisely ZERO biblical evidence for any kind of “rapture” which involves pulling “the church” (which is and always has been Jewish AND Gentile) out of the way so God can get back to “plan A” of some nationalistic political entity centered in Jerusalem.
You simply do not find this kind of nonsense in the Bible. You have to “read it in” to various passages, having first been convinced of a theological system which was NEVER discussed in the church by the early fathers, the reformers or literally ANYONE before Darby got his “revelation” from a Scottish Irvingite (a heretic in the early 19th century) milkmaid.
Becoming fixated on some non biblical scheme of “final things” has caused US Christians (this view is not very widely held outside the USA among Christians) to focus on irrelevant and often antibiblical silliness of supporting “Israel” no matter how diabolical and evil that government of atheists are. Not only that, they play you like a fiddle and laugh at you behind your back.
“Over a third of senior pastors believe ‘good people’ can earn their way to heaven.”
I bet they use Romans 2:7 to defend it (I’ve seen that on FR in the Religion forum, at least) but Paul’s argument through to chapter 3 (9-12) blows that fantasy to bits:
For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
“But you and I, we’ve been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hour is getting late”
People flock to the “Pre-Tribulation Rapture” theory for the same reason people flock to Joel Osteen’s ministry:
It tells them what they want to hear.
Matthew 7:13-15
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Why not?
I'm not trying to defend any particular eschatology. I merely wish to point out that Jesus did not differentiate between faithful and faithless in His statement. In the context of "a great falling away" it seems plausible that disbelief could peak after the start of the tribulation. How many are so firmly attached to a pre-trib rapture that they may loose faith if a mid-trib is what will occur?
I know what I think is most likely based on scripture and on teachings I have heard. But if my faith is tied to being removed at the start of the tribulation, will I be mentally prepared for what will come if, for example, a post-trib rapture is our future? It's not a pleasant thought, is it?
Our salvation isn't by faith in any future event, it is by faith in God the Son, Jesus Christ the Lamb of God and His completed atonement for our sin on a cross. I do not have a full or correct understanding of all of His promises, but I know He will fulfil every one of them according to His word. If I keep my focus on Him instead of the storm I will not sink.
A great sermon by Adrian Rogers about the last days. He gets into pre-tribulation rapture in the second half.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_p06br13LM
Every time a “rapture” is mentioned it accompanies the sound of the last trumpet. The last trumpet judgment heralds the coming of the Lord Jesus with power and great glory to destroy the Beast’s armies at Armageddon and set up His Kingdom.
We know that time is near based on the condition of the “church”
Revelation 3:
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
It’s astounding how many so-called Christians want Christians to suffer God’s judgment during the end times.
If they want to, I’m sure God will accommodate them.
The rest of us can live in the hope of His delivering us from it, just as we have passed from death unto life and…..
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
For anyone interested:
Dr. Thomas Ice: “Hardly a week goes by that I don’ t receive material opposing the pre-trib rapture which is filled with all kinds of error, both Scriptural and historical.
“For example, I ran across an article entitled “Origin of the Secret Rapture Theory.” The first sentence said, “It may surprise and even shock you that neither the word ‘rapture’ nor the teaching of a secret rapture is not mentioned in ANY Christian literature prior to 1830—including the Bible!”
“I am hardly surprised or shocked that anyone could pack so much error into a single sentence, but there we have for all to see... I want to deal with some of the popular myths about the pre-trib rapture teaching...”
Rapture Mysths
by Dr. Thomas Ice
https://www.pre-trib.org/dr-thomas-ice/message/rapture-myths/read
Myths of the Origin of Pretribulationalism
by Dr. Thomas Ice
(Part 1) https://www.pre-trib.org/dr-thomas-ice/message/myths-of-the-origin-of-pretribulationism-part-1/read
(Part 2) https://www.pre-trib.org/dr-thomas-ice/message/myths-of-the-origin-of-pretribulationism-part-2/read
____________________________________
“In Christian theological circles discussion, critics of dispensationalism have argued that John Darby was the originator of the pretribulational rapture and dispensationalism.
“William Watson has... demonstrated that Darby’s perspectives were not aberrant nor did they originate with him.
“Instead, he followed a long list of individuals centuries before who anticipated the restoration of the Jews to their national homeland and believed in the imminent return of Christ.
“Now with the claim proved wrong that pretribulationalism and dispensationalism are new perspectives, hopefully the concentration in eschatological questions will be on exegesis of the Bible itself.”
Dispensationalism Before Darby
by Dr. William C. Watson
Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1734506717
The Antichrist, Rapture, and Rebirth of Israel in the Fathers and Medieval Manuscripts
by Dr. William C. Watson
MDiv, MA & PhD Professor of European History Colorado Christian University
A theory I’ve always had, with America being a super power world leader ( despite the decrepit condition of our present government) and with the fact that our present government is in bed with globalist despots, and forging a false peace covenant with Israel, could it be.....
Just as it appears change is soon to arrive, but then the Rapture occurs and the enemies of Christianity, and most notably the enemies of Israel win in a landslide election. Due to the fact Bible believing Christians are caught up.
Even so, come Lord Jesus.
Differences Between the Rapture and the Second Coming
by Dr. Thomas Ice
https://www.pre-trib.org/pretribfiles/pdfs/Ice-DifferencesBetweenTheRapt.pdf
Is the term “Jews” a generic title for only the two tribes, Judah and Benjamin? Are the other 10 tribes still the “lost sheep” of the house of Israel?
Answer from Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum:
The concept of the ten lost tribes of Israel is actually a myth, and they were never lost. This is quite clear historically.
When the northern kingdom went into Assyrian captivity, they were settled in specific cities in Assyria. When Babylon conquered the Assyrian empire, all ten tribes fell under the Babylonian sovereignty. Babylon also conquered Judah, thus subduing the remaining two tribes. So all twelve tribes were under the same sovereign authority of Babylonia.
When the Medo-Persian empire conquered Babylonia, all twelve tribes fell under Medo-Persian authority. The Persians allowed the Jews to return to their home country, and most members of all twelve tribes did indeed return to the Land. However, other members of all twelve tribes stayed where they were.
Luke 2 refers to Anna as being “of the tribe of Asher,” one of the so called “ten lost tribes.” Quite obviously, Anna was not lost.
James addressed his epistle “to the twelve tribes of the Dispersion.” He did not need to look for the “lost tribes” in order to deliver the letter to them.
By later New Testament times, personal identification by once distinguishable tribal names became less prominent. Thus, Paul called himself a Hebrew, and he also called himself an Israelite. In Philippians 3:5, he identified himself as a Benjaminite, but he also called himself a Jew, which became a generic term for the members of all the tribes of Israel.
So, all those who call themselves Jews today can come from any of the twelve tribes of Israel and not just two.
It is incredible that you guys think the falling away of people and the wars and famines of today are worse than
1. The conquest of Jerusalem by Arabs in 637 - the fall of the center of Christendom to the Muslims after war and siege — and that was after the 50 years Sassanid-Roman war preceding this
2. the Turkish conquest of Constantinople in 1453 - after war, famine, rape, murder and pillage
7 is considered a heavenly number because that is the number of heavenly objects the ancients saw moving in the sky. The days of our week were named after them and English still retains the most important heavenly object of all: Sunday.
The year is now 2023. Notice how all the digets add up to seven? If that was not enough mystery 2023 is not a prime number. You get it by multiplying 7 by 17 by 17. So when was the last year that was prime? 2017. When is the next prime year? 2027. Interesting times indeed!
I see these cultist trolls are still spamming OTHER people’s threads rather than posting their own and promoting their own cultic views.
I don’t even bother reading them or replying to them any longer. They are a waste of time.
On that note, keep looking up Brother, this could be the day we’re raptured.
And for the atheists that don’t have the Faith that God is able to Rapture His own, I doubt they have the Faith that God would send His Son as a Sacrifice for man’s sins, and then to raise Him back to life after being Crucified.
Maybe they will become believers when they find themselves in the 7 year tribulation....or not. They might still be too busy spamming threads to even notice they’ve BEEN LEFT BEHIND.
I suggest we just ignore the trolls altogether.
Thanks again brother for the posts.
Fair description of the Laodicean Age.