Posted on 08/16/2023 6:39:10 AM PDT by zucchini bob
Apparently human sinfulness (not sin itself but the proclivity to sin--"sin nature") is a genetic disease that has been hardwired in our DNA since the fall of man.
A baby may not show symptoms, but the disease is there.
“There was no time ever when He was not GOD.”
Then Mary logically couldn’t be the mother of his godly nature, since that pre-existed even her own birth. You can’t be the mother of something that existed before you did.
Your Christology just fell off the orthodox train. The incarnate Jesus is a divine person with a human nature. There is no "Jesus the man" if you are a Christian, because that implies, in fact pretty clearly states, that "Jesus the man" is a different person from the-Jesus-who-is-God. That heresy is called "Nestorianism," and was condemned in AD 431.
"Mother" and "Son" describe relationships between persons. Mary is the Mother of the Person, Jesus, who is God. Therefore, Mary is the Mother of God: the baby whom she bore is God.
Mary was a sinner, just like you and me.
Nothing in Scripture says this. In fact, the archangel in Luke 1 addresses Mary, not by her name, but as kecharitomene ... "already completely graced in a past action". That doesn't sound like "just like you and me". Do you think, if an archangel appeared to you, he would address you, not by your name, but as "already completely graced in a past action"? Don't bet on it!
She needed the Blood of Jesus to cover her sins.
The Blood of Jesus doesn't only "cover" sins, it washes them away. And Mary had that; she wasn't saved by her own power or her own goodness, but by a prior application of the merits of her divine Son.
Marys salvation is not connected to anyone elses salvation.
This is obviously ridiculous, since Mary's "yes" to God was clearly a critical event in making the Incarnation happen, and everyone's salvation depends on that.
The heresy is yours. You are spouting an old heresy called the Nestorian heresy. Re: https://www.christianity.com/wiki/christian-terms/the-nestorian-controversy-11629695.html
#2 Mary was a sinner, just like you and me. She needed the Blood of Jesus to cover her sins.
Catholics would agree but they hold to the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is not supported in the Bible. Excerpt from: https://www.catholic.com/tract/immaculate-conception-and-assumption
Protestants’ chief reason for objecting to the Immaculate Conception and Mary's consequent sinlessness is that we are told that “all have sinned” (Rom. 3:23). Besides, they say, Mary said her “spirit rejoices in God my Savior” (Luke 1:47), and only a sinner needs a Savior. Let's take the second citation first. Mary, too, required a Savior. Like all other descendants of Adam, she was subject to the necessity of contracting original sin. But by a special intervention of God, undertaken at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. She was therefore redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way—by anticipation.
#3 Mary's salvation is not connected to anyone else's salvation.
Many Protestants are not opposed to Believers on earth praying for and interceding for other Believers on earth. Catholics on earth believe that they can petition those in heaven and earth to pray and intercede for them.
Our nation is going to hell in a handbasket! Should Christians be fighting and arguing about Catholic theology surrounding the Mary, the Mother of God?
You keep saying this like it's something novel. Catholics agree with you, in fact we're required by Catholic dogma to agree with you. Mary needed a savior, and she had One!
It's called "freedom of speech."
The strength of the Democrat Party is that they are not bound by moral values. They can pretend to be charitable, even though they are doing it for the sole aim of gaining power. And they can also indulge the sins of those who are harming themselves with addictions or sexual promiscuity. They appeal to people who would rather not make tough decisions regarding morality. And, as we see, that is an awful lot of people. They are truly doing the work of the devil.
Got evidence of that? You believe God can put Jesus in her but He can’t keep her Virginity intact?
"Why not? Jesus wore imperfect clothes, imperfect sandals, ate imperfect food, and lived with imperfect people for 33 years. I think he could probably tolerate 9 months more imperfection to accomplish his goal."
Well said! He is God and came to earth to be one of us! He was tempted in all things but never sinned! He was exposed to injuries like hitting his hand accidentally with a hammer and he sneezed from dust and so forth. His mother was blessed among women not because she was sinless but because she submitted to the perfect will of God. It was a righteous decision. She knew what would be rumored about her pregnancy and still made the decision to suffer whatever happened to her because of her obedience to the will of God. She was not sinless, otherwise the Savior died for nothing because of Mary.
“The Catholic church was Christianity...”
The church in Rome was never the only church on the planet. That’s just a little fairy tale that the Romans like to tell themselves.
—> Got evidence of that?
Mary was an obedient, godly, married women.
As such, she was obedient to God.
God never commanded her to remain a virgin.
Prophecy did not require perpetual virginity.
Got made sexton married couples and it is good.
God delights in married couples pleasing each other sexually.
Scripture commands couples not to withhold sex from each other, except for a short time, for the purpose of prayer.
Scripture states Joseph kept Mary a virgin - until the birth of Christ - fulfilling scripture,
No Apostle ever taught the perpetual virginity of Mary.
No Christians record it before 100 ad - while the apostles were on earth.
And the suggestion that any human being was sinless diminishes the importance of Jesus's sinlessness and the price he paid for us.
My wife's sister and her husband are rabid catholics. And every election they vote straight-line Democrat. They live in a trailer park in California and exist on social security alone because they're fiscally irresponsible, which is no surprise considering where they live. As we're conservative Protestants, any talk about politics or religion is out of the question because of their irrational beliefs.
Sounds like it is petty bashing Catholics for no reason. I notice on Free Republic these threads are always Protestants ripping the Catholic Church for one reason or another. The Funny part Protestants can’t even get their shit together. You all are like the different sects of Judaism all believing different things
Sure it was. The Protestants didn’t break away until the 1400s
Excuse me the 1500s so even later
Ask yourself that question........WHO TOLD YOU that the RCC has anything to do with ANY book of the Bible?
Oh wait..........they did.
How about you refute with God’s Word and not man’s? How about you ask your “priest” this question?
How about you read it first?
His,
Bobby Z. Former “Roman Catholic”
You obviously didn’t even consider Jewish tradition and beliefs. Did you know that MANY married Jewish couples stayed in a state of virginity throughout their married life. According to Jewish belief though marriage may sometimes be a holy estate, it presents great hindrances to prayer and the teaching of Scripture is that the states of virginity and continency are more accordant with God’s will than that of marriage. Many Jews choose perpetual virginity
I am never interested in “healing” if the R.C.C. thinks **I** am the one who left the Word of God. They want us to “return to the Mother Church”, not them to return to the Word of God they tried to destroy and failed.
How about you tell THEM to abandon their cult? Paganism? World dominance?
Instead of me? Want peace? Talk to them, not me. I merely educate people who want to hear. It sparks nerves because they are emotional, weak, apostate. UNTEACHABLE.
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