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To: ebb tide
No
No return to the antisemitism of the past in the cause of getting rid of Vatican II.

“It seemed likely that Catholics know something about the landmark Nostra Aetate — the official declaration of the Second Vatican Council, reiterating that the Catholic faith begins with the patriarchs and prophets of ancient Israel, and condemning the notion that Jews share collective guilt for the death of Jesus. Many must also know of Pope John Paul II’s and other popes’ personal devotion to the people of the Covenant. “
3 posted on 12/27/2023 2:56:47 PM PST by af_vet_1981 ( The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: af_vet_1981

Was Pope Pius XII antisemitic?

Was Pope St. Pius X antisemitic?

Don’t drink the modernists’ Kool-aid.


6 posted on 12/27/2023 3:06:07 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: af_vet_1981
No. No return to the antisemitism of the past in the cause of getting rid of Vatican II.

Until Vatican II, the Church's official position on the Jews was expressed in Sicut Judaeis, which called for their protection.

That wasn't always followed, unfortunately. But then again, Jews weren't always benevolent to Christians. Malicious acts were always mutual.

The Talmud, written before the Holocaust or Inquisition or Crusades, is especially vile toward Christianity. It even claims that Jesus is in Hell, boiling in a vat of feces.

If Orthodox Jews have issued a statement condemning such passages in the Talmud, thus reciprocating Nostra Aetate, I am unaware of it.

8 posted on 12/27/2023 3:27:26 PM PST by Angelino97
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To: af_vet_1981
Here's the dilemma for the Roman Catholic....the leadership of the RCC has declared Vatican II to be dogma. As such, it cannot be challenged or admitted to be wrong for if either happen, then the Roman Catholic has to admit their denomination is in error.

Further, the lay Roman Catholic cannot evaluate whether Vatican 2, or any Roman Catholic dogma for that matter, is valid or not as they are not allowed to interpret the Bible or RC dogma on their own.

Additionally, per Roman Catholic canon law, the First See cannot be criticized. To further complicate matters, there is no mechanism where the pope can be removed. It simply cannot be done.

The Roman Catholic really has no say in this matter. That's quite a pickle for the Roman Catholic.

11 posted on 12/27/2023 3:51:31 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: af_vet_1981
No
No return to the antisemitism of the past in the cause of getting rid of Vatican II.

“It seemed likely that Catholics know something about the landmark Nostra Aetate — the official declaration of the Second Vatican Council, reiterating that the Catholic faith begins with the patriarchs and prophets of ancient Israel, and condemning the notion that Jews share collective guilt for the death of Jesus. Many must also know of Pope John Paul II’s and other popes’ personal devotion to the people of the Covenant. “

The traditional attitude of historical chrstianity to the Jews is utterly bizarre and makes absolutely no sense. It's insane. And yet it is so absolute and uniform that it must in some way be essential to the entire religion.

American-style Fundamentalist Protestantism may be a-historical and anachronistic, but it is the ONE and ONLY form of chrstianity that has an "orthodox," conservative philo-Semitic tradition. This because, in its total lack of history, its only ancestors are the ancient Israelites of the Hebrew Bible. And it cannot illogically condemn those people as chrstianity's (lehavdil!) `Amaleq.

Another reason for this lack of anti-Semitism is that it's theory of the atonement is "penal substitution"--ie, G-d killed J*sus in place of sending every fallen human being who would ever live to Hell. The sacramental churches cannot adopt this view because it renders mankind's part in salvation completely passive, making any sort of church or sacramental ritual unnecessary. They'd all be out of a job.

Just think for a moment. The historical churches consider the passion to be at once the absolute greatest thing that has ever happened (saving the world) AND the greatest crime in history. It was necessary for J*sus to die, to be killed, yet the people who played the priestly role and slaughtered the victim are now "accursed." Does that make any sense? Why not say the same about the priests who re-enact that sacrifice so many times? Are they "deicides" too?

Do the ancient churches believe it would have been better had the passion never taken place? Then there would be no salvation and no chrstianity. Is it because they didn't know they were saving the world when they did it? Then how should they have done it? I mean it! Think about this for just one moment and you will see how insane this all is! And isn't it just too convenient that all this hatred, all this claims of "accursedness," apply to the "predecessor" religion, which would be the new religion's most serious competitor. Coincidence, or an attempt to eliminate this competitor?

Unfortunately historical chrstianity has made Judaism "liberal," a decriminalized sin like homosexuality. American-style Fundamentalism is still attached for reasons of Biblical sentimentalism and neither hates the Jews nor teaches that "all religions are equally valid." For historical chrstianity this is impossible.

I am glad to have seen the light and become a Noahide. This means I believe there is only one religion (Judaism/Noahism) to which all mankind is statutorily obligated which will outlast all other religions and eventually be universally acknowledged. Straight-up Theocracy, no liberalism, "tolerance," or "democracy" involved.

I cannot understand why sacramental chrstianity so looks down its nose at Fundamentalist Protestants. They have avoided a fatal problem without compromising their attachment to J*sus and to objective religious truth. Churches that have taught hatred of the Chosen People throughout their history (especially for doing what metaphysically had to be done) seem far inferior. I'll never get it. I'll never understand.

Of course Fundamentalist Protestantism is still completely a-historical, but its peoples' stubbornness also vaccinates it from the Torah Truth. HaShem yerachem!

166 posted on 02/06/2024 9:07:04 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (בראשית ברא אלקים את השמים ואת הארץ)
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