Posted on 06/04/2002 3:03:30 AM PDT by maryz
I didn't forget that, but it does seem that many of the hierarchy did/has.
If we obey a command contrary to the faith, the claim that we were just being obedient will not suffice on judgmement day.
But the faith says that we must be obedient to the Pope/Magisterium teaching, does it not? Not going to Mass because all there might be is the "Novus Ordo" is contrary to the faith. Jesus is Present in the "Novus Ordo", is he not? I would rather receive the Body of Christ in a "Novus Ordo" Mass than not receive Him at all. That said, I do love the Latin/Tridentine Mass.
You'd fit in with us pretty well yourself.
Proselytizing is always offensive. JP2 has done your church no favors. He has, instead, created suspicion on our part and for some a strong loathing. Create a church we can admire from a distance instead, and at least we will not run when we see you coming.
"Save yourself and a thousand around you will be saved."
St. Seraphim of Sarov. A major teaching in our church.
Yes, I'm sure a nation where Armand Hammer's dad can take the rap for his murdering a woman for a botched abortion is a scary thought for you and Planned Parenthood (whose protective seals keep just such murderers up and running and free from prison).
You're on, OPH. I'll shall do my level best to come up with a good compare and contrast of how AWFUL life was when the Legion of Decency was allowed free reign and what horrific bureaucracy oppressed Americans through and up to the late 60's and early 70's when the bells of liberty known as Political Correctness, population control, environmentalism, the homosexual agenda, eco-feminism and the right-to-die began to ring in earnest.
We are SO MUCH MORE FREE NOW that the snail darter enjoys greater protection than an unborn human life ... in the name of MORALITY.
What is truly amazing is that you would see JP2 as the great Shepherd, especially in light of what his church is now shown to be.
What we see when we look at JP2 is incredible arrogance, at best. Not one of us sees ourselves as lost sheep. Come to one of our liturgies and get back to me. Ours is from 300 AD. Step back in time to Byzantium and enjoy the experience of a true mystery, a reverent and profound worship of Christ. Now what could your church possibly offer to replace what we already have? Amazing.
I think for those they require about 10 pages to be filled out by ten different people and then a hefty cash payment sent in along with it. Forgiveness in the eyes of the church follows.
But, but hasn't the whole of society become corrupted by the deviant behaviour of certain individuals...The movie industry, sporting,educators, etc have all been tainted by this insidious plague. Why then hold the Catholic Church as the only one to be tried and convicted.... as we write, there are grand plans to hold a Gay(sad) parade through the streets of Jerusalem...does this not evoke the same outrage as has been poured out on the Catholic Church? Do these deviants not deserve to be chastised for the corruption they bring upon the law abiding and God fearing people the world around.....I am just about fed up with the Media, it used to be, a favorite newspaper's bold statement in the upper right hand corner "All the news that is fit to print"
Pleazzze, give me a break. Media seems to be the culprit here.
But the faith says that we must be obedient to the Pope/Magisterium teaching, does it not? Not going to Mass because all there might be is the "Novus Ordo" is contrary to the faith. Jesus is Present in the "Novus Ordo", is he not? I would rather receive the Body of Christ in a "Novus Ordo" Mass than not receive Him at all. That said, I do love the Latin/Tridentine Mass.
Yes, we must be obedient to the Pope/Magisterium. But obedience is a matter of Justice. It is sinful to obey an unjust command (unjust in this case being contrary to God's Law). This is also a matter of faith.
As to whether or not we should attend the Novus Ordo if that is all that is available, is an interesting question. I have attended Novus Ordo masses where the priest has made it abundantly clear that he does not agree with the church's teaching on the sacrifice of the mass and the real presence. In this case, he would lack intent, which is required, and therefore would not consecrate the host, and I would not in fact be receiving Jesus. Also, the chances that I will hear a heretical homily at a Novus Ordo mass are very high based on my own experiences. Personally, I will attend the Novus Ordo if that is all that is available, but I have a hard time condemning the person who wishes to avoid it.
NO KIDDING???? I almost fell off my chair.
That was directed specifically towards the SSPX, not the Orthodox. I don't have any idea why you want want to insert yourself into that situation - maybe you just had the desire to fell unjustly wounded, who knows?
There was a story in the Herald today about McCormack's deposition -- not much detail, the transcript hadn't been released. But apparently his motivation was that he didn't want to create a 'scandal.' Did it never occur to him that the way to avoid a scandal is to do all in your power not to let scandalous behavior start and, if it should despite your precautions, stomp it out?
Also, according to the Herald story, there was also testimony about "priests who have not previously been implicated in abuse cases."
Oh, Oh. Sounds like a "personal interpretation" problem.
This view on obedience that you call "personal interpretation" is the view of such doctors of the church as St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Robert Bellarmine. Certainly, you are not accusing them of "personal interpretation?"
As the character in Monty Python's "The Holy Grail" said "pull the other one." That response was an attempt to defend the heretical and evil idea that the Catholic Church via Pope Paul VI had promulgated a Protestant worship service and not a new Liturgy of the Mass. Do you want to defend that, Bellarmine?
If you do desire to take on that burden, be prepared to cite Aquinas and Bellarmine in support of such apostate inanity.
Remember, the first law of the church is the salvation of souls. If we obey a command contrary to the faith, the claim that we were just being obedient will not suffice on judgmement day
Everyone is a Pope EXCEPT the Pope, I guess. And I guess it is "Catholic" to think the Pope COULD promulgate a Liturgy of the Mass that is contrary to the Faith.
Bellarmine, if you think that, you ain't Catholic
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