I Confess...........[The Complete Biblical Basis for Confession]

Envoy Magazine via CatholicExchange.com ^ | Tim Staples

[Polycarp]

The scenario:

You've decided to help out on a confirmation retreat at your parish.You're a small group leader with five candidates in your group. The youth are responding well until the time comes to go to confession. One of the girls in your group, Michelle, has an objection to going to confession.

Her Evangelical boyfriend has apparently convinced her she has no need of a priest to confess her sins. "Why can't I confess my sins directly to God?" Michelle protests.

Evidently, Michelle was waiting for this opportunity to make her stand, because she immediately reels off five Scripture passages that she had no doubt memorized for the occasion.

"Isaiah 43:25 says, 'I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.' It's God who forgives sins," she confidently proclaims. You notice she is quoting from the King James Bible.

"Further, Hebrews 3:1 and 7:22-27 tell us Jesus is our one and only true High Priest and that there are not many priests, but one in the New Testament. The Bible makes it clear in 1 John 2:2 that Jesus 'is the propitiation for our sins,' and not some priest, 'and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world'. And how can we Catholics claim priests act in the role of mediator in confession when 1 Timothy 2:5 tells us, 'For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus'?"

Your response:

You begin by complimenting Michelle on her knowledge of Scripture, and encourage the rest of your group to imitate her in the practice of memorizing Sacred Scripture. You thank her for both her honesty and for bringing up these objections to confession. In answering them, these objections can serve to deepen our understanding of the One, True Faith established by Jesus Christ.

Step One: After thanking Michelle once again for bringing up Isaiah 43:25, which teaches us that it is, in fact, God Who forgives our sins, you ask another member of the group, Mark, to read Leviticus 19:20-22:"If a man lies carnally with a woman . . . they shall not be put to death . . . but he shall bring a guilt offering for himself to the Lord, to the door of the tent of meeting, a ram for a guilt offering. And the priest shall make atonement for him . . . before the Lord for his sin which he has committed, and the sin which he has committed shall be forgiven him."

Remember, Isaiah 43:25 is an Old Testament passage. It declares that God forgives our sins. On that point all Christians agree. However, here in Leviticus, also in the Old Testament, the priest has been given the ministry of reconciliation. He mediates God's forgiveness to the sinner. Obviously, this does not take away from the fact that it is God Who does the forgiving. God is the efficient, or ultimate, cause of forgiveness. The priest is the instrumental cause

Michelle immediately objects. "But Jesus is our priest and mediator in the New Testament."

You respond, "We'll get to that in a minute, Michelle, but first I want to make sure everyone understands what we're saying." Now, in order to keep this from becoming a confrontation between yourself and Michelle, you turn to the rest of the group and say, "God indeed forgives us our sins, as Isaiah 43:25 teaches. However, that doesn't eliminate the possibility of using priests to mediate that forgiveness to the world as Leviticus 19:20-22 teaches. Right?"

You notice Michelle responds affirmatively with the others, so you quickly move ahead.

Step Two:

"Michelle brought up another excellent point we need to address. How can we Catholics have priests to forgive our sins, when Hebrews 3:1 says Jesus is the apostle and High Priest of our confession? And what about Hebrews 7:22-27?" At this point, you ask another member of your small group, Kendra, to read the text.

"This makes Jesus the surety of a better covenant. The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office; but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues for ever . . . For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, blameless, unstained, separated from sinners, exalted above the heavens. He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people; he did this once for all when he offered up himself."

At this point, you see all five of your group members absorbed in thought. Jennifer suddenly pipes up and says, "How do we answer that one? It seems that Jesus is our only priest."

To answer, you call on Andrea to read 1 Peter 2:5, 9.

"And like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ . . . But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people . . ."

If Jesus is the one and only priest in the New Testament in the strict sense that Protestants believe, then we have a contradiction in Sacred Scripture, because 1 Peter teaches that all believers are members of a holy priesthood. The key to clearing up this difficulty is in understanding the nature of the Body of Christ. Believers do not take away from Christ's unique Priesthood, rather, as members of His Body, we establish His Priesthood on earth. We are His hands and feet.Michelle jumps in, "That doesn't say there's any special priesthood we have to go to in order to have our mortal sins forgiven. That text says we're all priests.

"We'll get to that," you assure her, "but we are making progress. A moment ago we couldn't see how anyone could be a priest in the New Testament other than Christ, and now we see how all believers are priests.

"Before we move on to demonstrate a special priesthood, can we all see how Christ being the true High Priest does not eliminate the possibility of there being many priests? We are priests as believers inasmuch as we participate in the one priesthood of Christ, as members of His Body."At this point you clear up the difficulty of 1 Timothy 2:5: "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Yes, Jesus is the one mediator between God and men. However, Christians are also called to be mediators in Him. When we intercede for one another or share the gospel with someone, we act as mediators of God's love and grace in the one true Mediator, Christ Jesus (cf. 1 Tim. 2:1-7, 4:16, Rom. 10:9-14).

Now what about 1 John 2:2? "He is the expiation [propitiation] for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." How can we demonstrate from Scripture the existence of a priesthood with the power to forgive sins, within the universal priesthood of all believers?

Step Three:

Now show the context of 1 Peter 2:5, 9. When St. Peter teaches us about the universal priesthood of all believers, he refers to Exodus 19:6 where God speaks of ancient Israel as "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation," a reference to the universal priesthood in the Old Testament "church." But this did not preclude the existence of the Aaronic and Levitical priesthoods within that universal priesthood (cf. Ex. 28 and Num. 3:1-12).

In an analogous way, we have a universal "royal priesthood" in the New Testament, but we also have an ordained clergy who have priestly authority given to them by Christ to carry out His ministry of reconciliation (cf. 2 Cor. 5:17-21, John 20:21-23, James 5:16). Michelle once again protests. "But you still haven't answered the Scripture I quoted earlier. 1 John 2:2 says Jesus is the propitiation for our sins, not a priest. And in Mark 2:5-10, Jesus forgives the sins of a paralytic. When the scribes object to that and call it blasphemy, Jesus says: ' "But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth," he said to the paralytic, "I say to you, rise, pick up your mat, and go home."' Scripture is clear. Jesus is the One we go to for forgiveness. Where does the Bible say there's a priesthood with the authority to forgive sins

Step Four:

Now ask Mark to read John 20:21-23 to the group: "Jesus said to them again, 'Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.' And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.' "

"What does this text say to you?" you ask. Andrea speaks up: "I think it says Jesus gave His authority to forgive sins to His disciples, which we read about in Mark 2." The rest of the group agrees, except for Michelle, who had been listening attentively, but is now studying the text intensely.

You point out the setting: Jesus has risen from the dead and is about to ascend to the Father. In verse 21, Jesus says, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." What did the Father send Jesus to do? He came to be the one true mediator between God and men: proclaiming the gospel (cf. Luke 4:16-21), reigning supreme as King of kings and Lord of lords (cf. Rev. 19:16), and especially, redeeming the world through the forgiveness of sins (cf. 1 Peter 2:21-25, Mark 2:5-10). So this is what Christ is sending the apostles to do in His name: To proclaim the gospel with His authority (cf. Matt. 18:15-17), to govern the Church in His stead (cf. Luke 22:29-30), and to sanctify the Church through the sacraments, especially the Eucharist (cf. John 6:54, 1 Cor. 11:24-29) and confession.

Christ, the High Priest of the New Covenant, ordained the apostles to continue His priestly mission. In John 20:22-23, Jesus then emphasizes this essential part of the priestly ministry of the apostles: forgiving men's sins in the name of Christ. "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." This is confession. The only way the apostles can either forgive or retain sins is by first hearing those sins confessed, and then making a judgement as to whether or not the penitent should be absolved.

"You mean it's up to the priest to decide whether or not I'm going to be forgiven?" Michelle queries indignantly.

"Yes, Michelle. That's what the Bible teaches here in John 20.

"Let's say a woman confesses adultery," you continue. "When the priest asks her if she's sorry for her sin and resolved to turn away from it, she says she's not. The priest would then be bound to 'retain' her sins. One has to be truly sorry for his or her sins in order to be forgiven." "What if she lies to the priest and says she's sorry when she's not, and then the priest absolves her?" Jennifer asks. "Will she be forgiven?" "No," you respond. "The sacrament does not take effect unless the penitent is truly sorry for his or her sins. In fact, lying in confession is another serious sin, called the sin of sacrilege.

Step Five:

You notice Michelle is much less defensive when she asks her next question. "Do we see any examples of the apostles or church elders actually forgiving sins?"

You have Andrea read 2 Corinthians 2:10: "Any one whom you forgive, I also forgive. What I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ."

Actually, a better translation of the phrase "in the presence of Christ" is "in the person of Christ." The Greek word in the passage is prosopon. The Latin word persona comes from this word. The Greek prefix pro translates to Latin as per. The Greek sopon becomes sona in Latin. Interestingly, the King James Bible renders the better translation of "person."

You read James 5:14-16 aloud: "Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects."

You point out Scripture teaches us we must go to the "elders," not just anyone, to receive this "anointing" and the forgiveness of our sins.Michelle objects. "In verse 16 it says to confess our sins to one another and pray for one another. James is just encouraging us to confess our sins to a close friend so we can help one another to overcome our faults."

You respond, "We have to examine the context of Scripture in order to understand it properly. There are two reasons we know St. James is not saying we should confess our sins to just anyone. First, he's just told us to go to the elder, or priest, in verse 14. Then, verse 16 begins with the word "therefore." That word is a conjunction that connects verse 16 back to verses 14 and 15. It's the elder to whom St. James is telling us to confess our sins.

Step Six:

At this point, there's a break and you decide to take Michelle outside for a little one on one. You ask her, "Well, what do you think?"She replies thoughtfully, "I have to admit, John 20:21-23 and all the rest of the verses you pointed out make it awfully clear. But it's so hard to confess your sins to a man."

"Yep, I agree," you say. "But I guarantee you, you will walk out of that confessional feeling like you're walking on air. And remember, when the priest says, 'I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,' there are two people speaking at the same time: the priest, and Jesus Himself, Who loves you more than words could ever say."

After the break, it's time for confession. You're watching for Michelle. As soon as she comes out of the confessional, she looks right at you with a bright, beaming smile. As she approaches, you tease, "Was I right?"

The smile never leaves her face as she slaps you a high five and walks toward the chapel to pray.

Reprinted with permission from Envoy Magazine, www.envoymagazine.com

[DreamWeaver]

Bump

For later reading.

[AnalogReigns]

I've been reading this ping-pong discussion and something rather black and white comes to mind.

IF as these Romanists insist, its not good enough to confess ones sins to God, that an ordained Roman Catholic Priest MUST give absolution, THEN not one "Christian" (by that I mean a Protestant) who's never confessed to a priest has had any of his sins forgiven--indeed, they are by definition not even Christians at all... They (we) are by definition left in our sins--and Christ and his blood alone is not enough (without that pesky Priest to dole out forgiveness to us...).

WOW! That must me no Protestant will ever even make it to Purgatory, let alone Heaven!

Funny thing is though, in spite of the perfect logic of our entire lack of forgiveness, that's not what the Pope or the Roman Church at large teaches (anymore) is it?

Or do the Romanists here disagree with the Roman Church and want to say those of us who trust Jesus alone are not even Christians and have no hope of Heaven?

[AnalogReigns]

I'm wondering why no Protestant has posted here in refutation of the original post. I wouldn't want to see a heated debate or anything, but I would like to understand why non-Catholics do not believe in confession as it is commanded in the Bible.

Since this someone else's published article, posted, you may want to try to have a more charitible attitude toward those of us who have not (yet) posted a point by point refutation.

The article was obviously written and edited taking lots of time (making sure it was exactly in accord with (current) Roman doctrine), and frankly most of us here don't have that much time to do point-to-point refutations (especially of professionally written articles).

I'll try to refute it later, however I'll note a bit of disingenuous mode of argument to ask Protestants to refute doctrines solely from the Bible where Roman Catholics look to the authority of BOTH the Bible AND Church Tradition equally in support of any doctrine. We could build an air-tight biblical case, and you'd merely resort to your Tradition to refute us. In your mind, even if the scriptural basis of some doctrine or practice is obscure, or even absent--since the Church teaches it now "and always has..."(or says it has) then it must be right.

I'll never understand how Romanists look to a constantly-redefined-according-to-whoever-is-in-power Tradition as a place of solid authority. It would seem to me to be the ideal place for revisionist history making by defintion...so often demonstrated in practice.

[Theresa]

"THEN not one "Christian" (by that I mean a Protestant) who's never confessed to a priest has had any of his sins forgiven--indeed, they are by definition not even Christians at all... "

No this is not true. When NC's confess thier sins directly to God, out of pure sorrow for having offended him (not just because of fearing hell) then your sins are forgiven. I don't have time to explain further. But it is not true at all that your sins are never forgiven if you don't confess them to a priest. Maybe someone else can elaborate.

[Theresa]

"It took centuries for the church to "decided" that is what Christ meant when even those that were directly breathed on by Him did not and His words that way."

If you want to go down that road, could you explain to me why the docterine of sola scriptura, private judgement and faith alone was a big "discovery" only after 1500 years! If length of time bothers you, you should really be worried about that. If everybody has the Holy Spirit, surely somebody could have rescued these ideas from the bible a lot sooner, given how important they are.

[Theresa]

"Actually, since all early Christian writings point to my side of the issue, the onus is on you to prove that ANYONE interpreted this passage in a way other than we interpret it, before the reformation.

Well those ancient Christian writings are ours. However if they could find writings by the ancient Baptists you can be sure that they would use them and call them Sacred Tradition too.

[Wrigley]

Sounds LDS like to me.

[restornu]

Sounds LDS like to me.

In what way?

[RnMomof7]

Theresa the early church WAS sola scriptura...LOL read it some time..Jesus was sola scriptura...He taught it .....do a search on you computer and see how many times the apostles said "it is written" or words to that effect. Jesus used Scripture to prove who He was.

Sola Scritpura was a return to the church not a deviation from it

How did the early church KNOW that Jesus was the Christ and the apostles? They searched the scriptures to look for prophecy..

The reformation was a return to the practice of the early church..God is immutible..if he said something here he will not change His mind later...check it against the word..Sola Scriptura..

[RnMomof7]

Straw man. The same argument is used by the LDS against the Trinity.

What was the contemporary understanding.

BTW your argument is awful because time was not their friend they are wrong..could be you are too

[AnalogReigns]

Sounds LDS like to me.

One sign of a losing arguement is name calling...I don't know of anyone who's been posting in this thread who's Mormon, rather we have Evangelicals and some Evangelical Calvinists (as I am myself). Why don't you describe what is wrong with an argument rather then using a pejorative label to dismiss it....

[Wrigley]

Is saying something sounds LDS a pejorative?

Here is why I made that statement. You said that you could build an air tight case refuting RC doctrine with using the Bible only. But then, the RC would say that this is not the case since they would use extra Biblical traditions and thoughts to defend thier doctrine. Likewise, the LDS would refute your case against LDS teaching. In that way, it sounds LDS. Do you have a problem with that comparison? I am not equating LDS theaching to RC teaching. I am comparing defensive techniques I have seen used.

[Polycarp]

your argument is awful because time was not their friend they are wrong

My argument may have been aweful, but at least it was intelligible ;-)

[RnMomof7]

LOL LOL

[Theresa]

"Sola Scritpura was a return to the church not a deviation from it."

Rnmom there were no Protestants in the early church. None who believed as you do. There were no people who said that the Eucharist is merely a symbol. The New Testament is a tiny fraction of all the things that were circulating in the early centuries which purported to come from the Apostles. There were DOZENS of Gospels. There were dozens and dozens of books with titles named after Apostles and attributed to them. And it was the Catholic Church, because it had been given the power of the Holy Spirit through the Apostles that was able to identify the true books of the gospels from those that were false. It did not happen for almost 300 years after Jesus ascended to heaven! But it was the Catholic Council of Hippo, in 393 and the Catholic Council of Carthage in 397.... Catholic Counsels, that taught Catholic docterine, that gave YOU the New Testament. Why then cannot the Church that same Church teach from their own bible with authority? The Church that gave you the New Testament IS THE EARLY CHURCH!!!!! And the bible is a Catholic book.

[RnMomof7]

Theresa the early church was the Church of Jesus Christ...

Your observation that the Bible is a "Catholic Book" is silly and shallow. The OT Canon is clearly Jewish .So you certainly can not lay claim to that can you?

I maintain that Jesus and the apostles were sola scriptura. They taugh and tested everyting form the scriptures .

Mat 2:5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Mat 11:10 For this is [he], of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Mat 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Mat 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Mat 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Mar 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips, but their heart is far from me.

Mar 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

Mar 9:13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

Mar 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

Mar 14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

Luk 2:23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)

Luk 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Luk 4:10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

Luk 7:27 This is [he], of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Luk 19:46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Jhn 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

Jhn 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Jhn 12:14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Act 7:42 Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices [by the space of] forty years in the wilderness?

Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

Act 23:5 Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Rom 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Rom 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Rom 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

Rom 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for [his] mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

Rom 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

1Cr 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

1Cr 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

1Cr 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

1Cr 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

1Cr 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as [were] some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

1Cr 14:21 In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

2Cr 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

2Cr 8:15 As it is written, He that [had gathered] much had nothing over; and he that [had gathered] little had no lack.

2Cr 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Mar 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Jhn 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

1Cr 9:10 Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

1Jo 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.


Jesus and the Apostles were sola scriptura. The Reformation RETURNED the Bible to the people from whom the church had hidden it.

The Bible belongs to the people of God.

[Theresa]

"Jesus and the Apostles were sola scriptura. The Reformation RETURNED the Bible to the people from whom the church had hidden it.

Don't attribute to the Protestant Rebellion something they did not invent (other than sola scriptura) which was the printing press. Gutenberg invented it, and he was a Catholic. The first book he printed was the bible. The church had NOT hidden the bible that is false. Until the Protestant Rebellion bibles were expensive because there was no printing press. Monks had to copy by hand every single page. And they knew what they were doing and their translations were correct. The Church only prevented bibles with bad translations from being distributed. Most common people were unable to read and if they could they had little time to do it since they worked like dogs in the fields and in the towns and shops. This is proof that Christianity was not meant to be a religion of the book like Islam. It was meant to be taught orally too and it WAS for 1500 years. If I was a gentile I don't think I would care much about going through the Jewish Old Testament. It would be good, but was it compulsory? Could I not just believe and be baptised based upon St. Paul's word and grace of God? Did the apostles withold baptism until you READ the Old Testament?

"The Bible belongs to the people of God."

The bible belongs to the people of God because God entrusted it to the Catholic Church that is the only Church, to which all the people of God should belong.

[Theresa]

"Jesus and the Apostles were sola scriptura. The Reformation RETURNED the Bible to the people from whom the church had hidden it."

Let's talk about the Protestant Rebellion and its leaders:

Fellow Protestant revolutionary Bullinger gives telling testimony on Luther:

"He sends to the Devil all who do not entirely agree with him. In all his fault-finding there is an immense amount of personal animosity, and very little that is friendly and paternal . . . Too many - are the preachers who have gathered out of Luther's books quite a vocabulary of abuse, which they fire off from their pulpits . . . Through the evil example of such preachers the habit of reviling and slandering is spreading . . . and most clergymen nowadays who wish to appear good 'evangelicals' season their preaching with abuse and calumny. (111;v.3:211)"

Luther and Drunkenness

"I sit here the whole day idle and drunk." (110:111/5)

"Our Lord must set down drunkenness to our account as a daily sin; for we cannot well keep from it." (110:111/6)

"I drink the more heavily, prate the more loosely, and carouse the more frequently . . . to mock and to vex the devil. (110:111/7)"

"I gorge like a Bohemian and guzzle like a German. (110:113/8)"

Luther on revising the bible:

"Thus I will have it, thus I order it, my will is reason enough . . . Dr. Luther will have it so, and . . . he is a Doctor above all Doctors in the whole of Popery. (109:25/12)" He must have been drunk when he said that.

Luther's Dictatorial Ways

I am certain that I have my teaching from heaven. (109:19/13)

My doctrines will stand, and the Pope will fall. (109:19-20/14)

Whoever teaches differently from what I have taught herein, or condemns me for it, he condemns God, and must be a child of Hell. (109:20/15)

Christ . . . is the Master of my doctrine . . . it is not mine, but His own pure Gospel. (109:20/16)

My judgment is at the same time God's and not mine. (109:20/17) He must have been drunk here too.

For inasmuch as I know for certain that I am right, I will be judge above you and above all the angels, as St. Paul says, that whoever does not accept my doctrine cannot be saved. For it is the doctrine of God, and not my doctrine. (111;v.3:269-72/18)

I can hear and endure nothing which is against my teaching. (92:97/19)

Whoever advocates free will brings death and Satan into his soul . . . In this book I have not merely theorized; I have set up definite propositions . . . no one will I permit to pass judgment on them, and I advise all to submit to them. (50:267/20)

[Theresa]

John Calvin

Calvin, who historically has exercised more influence than even Luther on Protestantism, possessed the same self-proclaimed infallibility.

Calvin's Domineering Arrogance

Whosoever opposed Calvin, whether in religion or in politics, was hunted down and his blood was sought at his instigation. He never forgave a personal injury . . . This is strong language; but it is more than justified by the official records of Geneva . . . How sanguinary . . . is the spirit breathed in this extract of Calvin's letter to the Marquis de Pouet!:

Do not hesitate to rid the country of those fanatical fellows who in their conversation seek to excite the people against us . . . and would fain make our belief pass as a revery; such monsters ought to be strangled, as I did, in the execution of Michael Servetus. (113;v.1:381)

How much smitten he was with this glory, we shall perceive . . .:
To all France is known my irreproachable faith, my integrity, my patience, my watchfulness, my moderation, and my assiduous labors for the service of the Church; things that, from my early youth, stand proved by so many illustrious tokens.' . . .

How pleasing was he in his own eyes, when he commends so much:
His own frugality, his incessant labors, his constancy in dangers . . . his indefatigable application to extend the kingdom of Christ Jesus . . . The whole world is fully satisfied how well I know how to press an argument, and how distinct is that conciseness with which I write.(112;v.1:333-34)

Luther triumphed in speaking; but Calvin's pen was more correct . . .
The vehemence of both was extraordinary; . . . both were impatient of contradiction, nor did their eloquence ever flow more copiously than when fraught with contumelies . . . Whoever blushed at those expressions which Luther's arrogance drew from his pen, will not be less confounded at the excesses of Calvin: his adversaries are always knaves, fools, rogues, drunkards, furies, madmen, beasts, bulls, asses, dogs, swine; and Calvin's fine style is polluted with this filth through every page. Be they Catholics or Lutherans, it is all one to him, he spares none. (112;v.1:335)

Calvin and Other Protestants Calvin couldn't comprehend why he, of all people, was assaulted by Lutherans,
unless it be that Satan, whose vile slaves they are, so much the more urges them on against me as he sees my labors more useful to the Church than theirs. (112;v.1:335)

In writing to a Lutheran, Calvin snaps:
Dog, do you understand me? Madman, do you comprehend me? (112;v.1:335)

Needless to say, Scripture condemns conceit: Romans 12:16: . . . condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. (See also Prov 3:7, Rom 11:20, 12:3, 1 Cor 3:18, 8:2, Eph 2:9). Obviously, Luther also fell far short of the mark on this one! Non-Catholic historian Will Durant picks up this train of thought, and adds to it:

His shyness disguised an inner pride, his humility before God became at times a commanding arrogance before men. He was painfully sensitive to criticism, and could not bear opposition with the patience of one who can conceive the possibility that he may be wrong. Racked with illness, bent with work, he often lost his temper and broke out into fits of angry eloquence; he confessed to Bucer that he found it difficult to tame 'the wild beast of his wrath.' His virtues do not include humor, which might have softened his certainties, nor a sense of beauty, which might have spared ecclesiastical art . . . He could be a kind and tender friend, and an unforgiving enemy, capable of hard judgments and stern revenge . . . A man of such mettle must raise many enemies. He fought them with vigor . . . He described his opponents as riffraff, idiots, dogs, asses, pigs, and stinking beasts - epithets less becoming to his elegant Latinity than to Luther's gladiatorial style. (122:477)