Church and Israel distinctions

Thomas Ice website ^ | Unknown | Thomas Ice

[LostTribe]

>A 'Jew' strictly speaking meant the tribe of Judah.

No, it never did.  A Jew is NOT a member of the Tribe of Judah, and never was.  A Jew is a member of the COMBINED organization of tribes consisting of Judah, Levi and Benjamin whose members were given the name Jew.  The first time this new  word Jew appears is AFTER the return of the residue of this Southern Kingdom from Babylonian captivity ~517 BC.  Benjamites and Levites are also Jews, but also only as members of the new organization, returned from captivity.

The actual word Jew comes from Judea, which in turn comes from the tribe of Judah, which was one of Judeas tribes.  But that doesn't make a member of the Judah tribe a Jew prior to their being any Jews.  ~517 BC !

>The term however has been broadened to mean all of the 12 tribes of Israel.

No, weasel phrases like "has been broadened" and "has to come to mean" mean absolutely nothing in a historical context.  Those are merely political accommodations and are not worth a bucket of warm, er, spit.

Rezin was slain in battle by the Assyrian king, and his people carried into captivity 732 BC.  This is over 200 years before there were any Jews.  Now why do you supposed the New King James Version and others made the correction?  That's right, because the original version was WRONG.

[skraeling]

"Religion" threads are an ongoing religious inquisition.  If  you don't believe exactly as up-tight anal-retentive religio-geeks, they are doing "Gods Work" to not simply chastise you, but to destroy you.

Lest anyone think this is just humble religious folks gathering to prayerfully explore the glory of their Gods, observe the almost total lack of honest quest for truth; any truth.  A poster dare not ask an honest question, or even worse admit he is wrong, for fear of being savaged by the clucking crowd of Pharisees waiting to pounce. To display any weakness is an invitation for assault.

For a sense of  living in a society dominated by any one Religion you need only explore these threads. The resident religious zealots of every stripe are societal "Nazis". They have all the truth, the only truth, and will grind you into the dirt on a whim.  Most don't have the class to do it with facts and evidence, they prefer arrogance, cynicism and personal degradation. What a fun bunch to take along fishing.

They are all cocksure. From:

     1)  The educated and erudite Christian windbags who treat everyone as inferior;
     2)  To stunningly ignorant raving rednecks, sweaty heavy-breathing Bible-thumping
               frothing fundamentalists who move their lips when reading;
    3)  To holier-than-thou Jewish athiests who work as a pack to stab a Christian dog.

This is not a haven of peace and  rest, but a War Zone. Each one knows God loves him best, and God is reserving the best mansion in heaven just for him as his earned reward.

Would you want to live in a society dominated by these Theo-Terrorists?  Be careful what you wish, for they are no better
than what comes out of the Middle East! 

[LostTribe]

Thanks, I got your message. I tend to think you are very perceptive. {ggg}. Maybe a little TOO perceptive and honest for a "religious" thread...

[ru4liberty]

- up-tight anal-retentive geeks
- clucking crowd of Pharisees
- societal "Nazis"
- erudite windbag Christian seminary types
- redneck, sweaty frothing fundamentalists who can barely read and are stunningly ignorant
- holier than thou Jews who only comment when they can stab a Christian dog
- Theo-Terrorists

Most don't even have the class to do it with truth and evidence of truth, they prefer arrogance, cynicism and personal degradation.

I see your point. Such tactics in presenting one's argument could be counterproductive.

[fortheDeclaration]

A 'Jew' strictly speaking meant the tribe of Judah. No, it never did. A Jew is NOT a member of the Tribe of Judah, and never was. A Jew is a member of the COMBINED organization of tribes consisting of Judah, Levi and Benjamin whose members were given the name Jew. The first time this new word Jew appears is AFTER the return of the residue of this Southern Kingdom from Babylonian captivity ~517 BC. Benjamites and Levites are also Jews, but also only as members of the new organization, returned from captivity. The actual word Jew comes from Judea, which in turn comes from the tribe of Judah, which was one of Judeas tribes. But that doesn't make a member of the Judah tribe a Jew prior to their being any Jews. ~517 BC ! >The term however has been broadened to mean all of the 12 tribes of Israel. No, weasel phrases like "has been broadened" and "has to come to mean" mean absolutely nothing in a historical context. Those are merely political accommodations and are not worth a bucket of warm, er, spit. Rezin was slain in battle by the Assyrian king, and his people carried into captivity 732 BC. This is over 200 years before there were any Jews. Now why do you supposed the New King James Version and others made the correction? That's right, because the original version was WRONG.

Not according to the scriptures (2Ki.16:6 and 2Ki.18:26, Isa.36:11)

In 700-800BC they were using the term 'Jew' to mean 'Judah' and they used the term 'Jewish language' for Hebrew.

Eventually, the term Jew, meant all the 12 tribes.

Take your myths somewhere else.

[Mare Tranquilitatus]

So, do you consider the Levites 'Jewish' or 'Israelites'

I have read and reread your long posts in this thread trying to filter out the point you are trying so passionately to make. Can you tell me, in just one simple sentence what your point is, and why it matters? Thank You.

(P.S. The Levites are both Jewish and Israelite.)

[fortheDeclaration]

So, do you consider the Levites 'Jewish' or 'Israelites' I have read and reread your long posts in this thread trying to filter out the point you are trying so passionately to make. Can you tell me, in just one simple sentence what your point is, and why it matters? Thank You. (P.S. The Levites are both Jewish and Israelite.)

That is the point I am making.

'Lost Tribes' is taking the position that only 'Judah' and 'Benjamin' could be considered 'Jewish' since the term 'Jew' did not come about until the dispersion of the Southern Kingdom.

They are saying, that the other ten tribes cannot be called 'Jews' which ofcourse they are.

I hoped that helped.

[Mare Tranquilitatus]

}(P.S. The Levites are both Jewish and Israelite.)

That is the point I am making.

'Lost Tribes' is taking the position that only 'Judah' and 'Benjamin' could be considered 'Jewish' since the term 'Jew' did not come about until the dispersion of the Southern Kingdom.

The Southern Kingdom was made up of the Israelites from the tribes of Judah and Levi and Benjamin and they were all called Jewish.  You are correct.

They are saying, that the other ten tribes cannot be called 'Jews' which ofcourse they are.

They do have a point there. All of the tribes are Israelites alright because they were all descended from Israel.  But those three tribes in the Southern Kingdom formed a confederation which they named Judea.  Those Israelites who were citizens of Judea were called Jewish, or Jews.

The other ten tribes were captured and taken prisoner by the Assyrians. Those ten tribes formed a confederation which took the name Israel.  The citizens of this Israel were called Israelites. That's a little confusing since all of the twelve (or thirteen) tribes were descended from Israel and all were "Israelites". Only the citizens of Judea picked up the extra name of "Jews".

I hoped that helped.

Yes, I understand what you are saying now. Thanks.