POSTURE AT MASS - KNEEL DOWN, SAY BISHOPS

Catholic News Service ^ | October 31, 2002

[NYer]

Standing during the eucharistic prayer at Mass in U.S. dioceses is permitted "only on exceptional and extraordinary occasions ... and never on a regular basis," the U.S. bishops' Committee on Liturgy said in its latest newsletter. The committee's September newsletter, made public in mid-October, said "the only licit posture" during the eucharistic prayer is kneeling, unless Catholics "are prevented on occasion from kneeling due to 'health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.'" The newsletter was quoting from the General Instruction of the Roman Missal. The determination of what is a "good reason" is left to bishops in each diocese, the newsletter said. Since the Vatican-approved U.S. adaptations of the Roman Missal took effect April 25, the bishops' Secretariat for Liturgy has received "several inquiries" about the proper posture during the eucharistic prayer, the newsletter said.

The committee said "the only licit posture" during the Eucharistic prayer is kneeling unless Catholics "are prevented due to health, lack of space, the large number of peope present, or some other good reason". The determination of "good reason" is left to each bishop.

Msgr. James Moroney executive director of the bishops Secretariat for Liturgy, said the mandate requires some churches built without kneelers to install them.

[NYer]

This article appeared in The Evangelist , the diocesan newspaper of the Albany diocese. It was accompanied by a graphic showing the proper posture during all phases of the mass. I nearly dropped dead when I read it!! The Albany diocese, as many of you so well know, is home to Fr. Dr. Dick Vosko, the wreckovator, who practiced his handiwork right here, removing kneelers in so many churches. It should be interesting to see if they actually restore them.

[Irisshlass]

the mandate requires some churches built without kneelers to install them.

Good news!

[drstevej]

***or some other good reason***

You can drive a Mack truck through this phrase! Ergo, the statement means nothing.

***The determination of "good reason" is left to each bishop.***

And this says who will be driving the truck.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

The newsletter was quoting from the General Instruction of the Roman Missal.

The wreckovator has his own playbook. It will be fun watching all these parishes installing kneelers. HA! Did the graphic remind people that the seat of the pew isn't there to rest their backside on while kneeling?

[ninenot]

They also stated that the position for reception of Communion is standing.

That battle was lost due to a lying campaign effectively carried out by the (convicted) homosexual abusers at the National Liturgical Commission and a few Bishops in the USA. They basically told Rome that "nobody" in the USA kneels to receive Communion anymore.

We belong to a parish in Milwaukee, (central city) where there are communion rails AND THEY ARE USED EVERY SUNDAY, and have been since the church was built in 1910.

.....they only lie when their lips are moving....

[Salvation]

Roger Mahoney:

**Msgr. James Moroney executive director of the bishops Secretariat for Liturgy, said the mandate requires some churches built without kneelers to install them.**

Not get busy and spend some additional money.

Oh, I forgot. you just cut staff. You don't have any money. </sarcasm off

[Salvation]

Oops........Not get busy

Now get busy.

[Dusty Rose]

I disagree on the need to re-install kneelers. Who really needs them to kneel? They are expensive to re-install, thousands of dollars, and if they are padded, they wear out easily. We have plenty of space between pews and kneeling is not a problem without the kneelers. Our previous parish had kneelers and I found them a big distraction, banging up and down. One came down on my foot one time and my daughter put her weight on it. It was painful, so I also find them dangerous. My Mom also commented that without kneelers in church, she is able to stretch out her arthritic legs in a more comfortable position. I love a church without kneelers. I like kneeling on the floor. There is a simplicity about contact with the floor when one kneels in adoration.

I understand that people prefer kneelers so as to encourage kneeling, but I so often see people "kneeling" who are actually slouched,leaning back on their pews. When one kneels on the floor, one is really in a posture of kneeling. (I am suprised I have so much to say about the subject...just thought I'd add my very humble minority opinion.)

[NYer]

***The determination of "good reason" is left to each bishop.***

Yes, Steve, this was not lost on me or on anyone else in this forum. You need to understand the significance of the fact that the article which originated on the Catholic News Service, was published on page 2 of the diocesan newspaper in one of the most liberal dioceses in the US. Bishop Hubbard is a member of that "greying" group of priests who thought they could liberalize american catholics. There is definitely a shifting trend amongst catholics, back to basics, away from these reforms. I can feel it now, even in this diocese. The shift has begun.

[NYer]

Did the graphic remind people that the seat of the pew isn't there to rest their backside on while kneeling?

ROFLMAO!!! Yes, indeed, the figure was kneeling, back as straight as an arrow! Wish I could find the graphic on the CNS site.

[drstevej]

Thanks for the insight.

[Dajjal]

I admit I am surprised! I'll be interested to see how this one shakes out, and in the meantime I'll have to push back the timeline in my prediction that soon standing during the Eucharistic Prayer will be declared the norm and kneeling declared ilicit.

But note that this is still a move consolidating power by the Committee on Liturgy -- making kneeling for Communion by trads/conservs illicit, and now standing during the E.P. by libs -- on the excuse that there "must be lockstep uniformity."

It's not impossible that they are under pressure to remove the ban on kneeling during Communion, and so now they can "benevolently" lift both bans in the near future without looking like they're giving in only to the right.

[NYer]

(I am suprised I have so much to say about the subject...just thought I'd add my very humble minority opinion.)

Thank you for getting "emotional" over this topic!! When I relocated from LI to upstate NY and the Albany diocese, I attended a diocesan mass, said by Bishop Hubbard, in a recently renovated church. It was a sudden introduction into his liberal feelings as expressed in not only the "wreckovated" church, but also his philosophy on altar girls and liturgy. There were no kneelers. When the time cam to kneel, me and my mother were the ONLY ONES in that position on the cold, tiled floor. Having assumed this position on similar floors through Europe, it made no difference to me but I was truly offended by the lack of respect shown by those present. Over the years, I have watched Bishop Hubbard's Sunday transmission of the mass "The Table of The Lord" on local television. In those churches where the kneelers were removed, the congregation stood during the consecration.

For this article to appear in the diocesan newspaper here in Albany, is indeed stunning! It makes a definitive statement. It says that Bishop Hubbard, despite all the "wreckovations" must be aligned with the other bishops on this issue.

[Irisshlass]

If you prefer to kneel on the floor..fine with me...I attended a church last Christmas and I was the only one that kneeled on the floor because there were no kneelers..

[Dusty Rose]

When the time cam to kneel, me and my mother were the ONLY ONES in that position on the cold, tiled floor.

I love it! You were truly giving witness to the Real Presence of Jesus among you. I hope you were in the front pew. It just takes a few to set the example, and the rest will follow. I find that a lot of Catholics don't know what to do when at Mass, even after attending for years and years, and they tend to do whatever the people up front do. I heard a quote once, something like "we should worship in a way that will make a difference to everyone else in the pew." What this says to me is that we can lead by example.

[Land of the Irish]

the mandate requires some churches built without kneelers to install them.

That one word, "some", gives me cause for apprehension.

The U.S. Bishops issue what initially appears to be tough sounding legislation, but then cover themselves with such caveats as "The determination of what is a "good reason" is left to bishops in each diocese."

Regardless, I hope your bishop follows this directive.

[victim soul]

Boy, my husband will be glad to hand this one to a pastor who said: "We have a custom here -- WE stand." Needless to say, my husband and I knelt. We were the only ones.

[Catholicguy]

<> I see some folks here can't stand (pun intended) to hear good news. Last night, at my local Parish Church, the congregation all sang the "Agnus Dei." (I think the "Chicken Littles" amongst us will witness fewer folks willing to pony-up the intellectual assent to gain admission to one of their Tent Reviles).

The complaints about local Ordinaries having the power to decide for their Dioceses is absured. That is what is SUPPOSED to happen. Sheesh....<>

[Catholicguy]

absured = absurd