Rosary May Contribute to Unity Says Protestant Theologian

Zenit ^ | December 12, 2002 | Anonymous

[ultima ratio]

Date: 2002-12-12

Rosary May Contribute to Unity, Says Protestant Theologian

If Contemplated as a Christological Prayer, as Suggested by Pope

ROME, DEC. 12, 2002 (Zenit.org).- The rosary has found an unlikely fan in a leading Protestant theologian.

John Paul II's recent apostolic letter "Rosarium Virginis Mariae" states, "To go through the scenes of the rosary with Mary is like going to the 'school" of Mary to read Christ, to penetrate his secrets, to understand his message." The rosary can even promote ecumenism, the Pope affirms.

That is a position shared by professor Stephan Tobler of the University of Tübingen, in Germany, a Reformed evangelical theologian, Vatican Radio reported.

"I must say that I read it in one go," Tobler said of the apostolic letter. "It is a letter of a spiritual and theological depth that I wasn't expecting -- a letter that breathes an evangelical dimension, which has very much surprised me."

"The letter says that it is necessary to relaunch the rosary as a Christological prayer," he added. "In fact, it does so, from the first to the last line."

When the document alludes to "the grace Mary gives us when we pray to her," it speaks of the grace that God gives us almost from Mary's hand, "but with an 'almost' as if to say she 'is and is not,'" the theologian said.

"Therefore, it is introduced in this way in the dynamic of the God-Trinity, which I see as close to the sensibility of the Reformers who appreciate the figure of Mary, but only if it does not detract from looking at Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Father," he said.

In this context, the Reformation communities can be encouraged by the Pope's words, the theologian said.

"I think that the evangelical churches can rediscover Mary as the image of the person completely open to God with her 'fiat' [let it be done], with her 'Do whatever he tells you," with her standing at the foot of the cross, with her silent presence among the disciples," professor Tobler said.

"In this letter, the Pope emphasizes that the rosary, more than a prayer of words, is a contemplation of the mystery," he continued. "Certainly today's sensibility and quest is primarily to rediscover a place where the heart rests, where the soul contemplates the mysteries of God and also the ways in which this is possible. We, in our traditions, must rediscover the ways that are equivalent, the analogy."

Tobler added a note of optimism about ecumenism: "I am convinced that if Catholics pray the rosary as proposed in this apostolic letter, and if evangelicals recognize and rediscover without prejudices this new way of conceiving the rosary, then it will be a favorable occasion. But we must work on it."

[LiteKeeper]

Amen...what reasons can you think of that a Protestant would "convert" to the Catholic Church? My conversion came when I was "born-again" by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ...and was translated from the kingdom of darkness to the Kingdom of the Son.

[ultima ratio]

There are Protestants and Protestants. Some of the mainline Protestant denominations have moved so far to the left on issues such as homosexuality and feminism that their members have become alienated. It's not surprising some of these find the Catholic Church more conservative and attractive. But also there have always been a certain percentage of Protestants who have studied the claims of the Catholic Church and found them historically valid and morally compelling. This is not a new phenomenon--though conversions have dropped precipitously since Vatican II.

[Scupoli]

the trend in the post-conciliar Church has been to obscure the differences in the hope that Protestants will become Catholics. From what I can see, the opposite is happening. Catholics are gradually becoming Protestants.

So true. Good insight.

[Iowegian]

All they are doing is trying to make it look like the Protestants have just as good of a chance to get into heaven as Catholics. There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

Care to explain this preposterous statement?

[Land of the Irish]

Concerning this doctrine the Pope of Vatican I, Pius IX, spoke on two different occasions. In an allocution (address to an audience) on December 9th, 1854 he said:

We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge; we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord. And who would presume to mark out the limits of this ignorance according to the character and diversity of peoples, countries, minds and the rest?

Again, in his encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore of 10 August, 1863 addressed to the Italian bishops, he said:

It is known to us and to you that those who are in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion, but who observe carefully the natural law, and the precepts graven by God upon the hearts of all men, and who being disposed to obey God lead an honest and upright life, may, aided by the light of divine grace, attain to eternal life; for God who sees clearly, searches and knows the heart, the disposition, the thoughts and intentions of each, in His supreme mercy and goodness by no means permits that anyone suffer eternal punishment, who has not of his own free will fallen into sin.

[Iowegian]

Which is it? You are contradicting your fellow churchman.

[Land of the Irish]

Which is it? You are contradicting your fellow churchman.

Never mind, ignore my post. You appear to suffer from "invincible ignorance" of the Catholic Church. My apologies.

[Iowegian]

Unfortunately I know much more about the RCC than I wish I did. Apparently you can't (or won't) explain the contradiction then.

[Land of the Irish]

Apparently you can't (or won't) explain

Explain what? Your invicible ignorance?

[Iowegian]

Are you being intentionally obtuse, or is that your natural state of mind?

[Jael]

You have to be Catholic to be saved?

[livius]

Is Vatican radio Romes answer to NPR?

LOL! Thank you for finding some humor in this otherwise less-than-funny situation.

[Scupoli]

Go back and read his post #25. He answered your questions there.

[Iowegian]

If you think so then you don't understand the question either.

[RnMomof7]

All they are doing is trying to make it look like the Protestants have just as good of a chance to get into heaven as Catholics. There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

Yea say a rosery and go to heaven take your get out of Jail free card and ...pass go to purgatory... incredible

[Salvation]

Rosary search--Our Lady of the Rosary Memorial

[Gamecock]

Ping......


***When the document alludes to "the grace Mary gives us when we pray to her," it speaks of the grace that God gives us almost from Mary's hand, "but with an 'almost' as if to say she 'is and is not,'" the theologian said. (Stephan Tobler of the University of Tübingen, in Germany, a Reformed evangelical theologian)***

Reformed? I think not!

[Frumanchu]

It is known to us and to you that those who are in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion, but who observe carefully the natural law, and the precepts graven by God upon the hearts of all men, and who being disposed to obey God lead an honest and upright life, may, aided by the light of divine grace, attain to eternal life; for God who sees clearly, searches and knows the heart, the disposition, the thoughts and intentions of each, in His supreme mercy and goodness by no means permits that anyone suffer eternal punishment, who has not of his own free will fallen into sin.

Can there be any doubt that Roman Catholicism is works-based? Here it is posited that one can 'lead an honest and upright life' and without putting any faith in the risen Christ be granted eternal life! It's one thing to argue that salvation is not by faith in Christ alone. It's quite another to argue for salvation without faith in Christ at all!!

[RnMomof7]

All they are doing is trying to make it look like the Protestants have just as good of a chance to get into heaven as Catholics. There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

Care to explain this preposterous statement?


Try reading this.




http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/992292/posts

Self deception is a real issue

[RnMomof7]

We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge; we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord. And who would presume to mark out the limits of this ignorance according to the character and diversity of peoples, countries, minds and the rest?

How does that compare to the Pope kissing the Koran and that Jews do not need to be converted, they have a different way of Salvation?

Personally I think it points to Dementia