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Do babies go to Heaven?

Posted on 12/29/2002 9:23:52 PM PST by PFKEY

Hope no one minds the vanity too much.

I was thinking last night about this idea and was trying to make it jive somewhat with the notion of predeterminationalism if that is the correct word.

Also was curious regarding what the various Christian denominations taught on this subject.


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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

False.

61 posted on 12/31/2002 1:54:23 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: Cleburne
1 Peter 1:2  
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

My favorite part, "according to foreknowledge". Amen and praise God. Of course he knew.

FOREKNOWL'EDGE, n. Knowledge of a thing before it happens; prescience.

PRESCIENCE, n. presi'ence or pre'shens. [Low L. proescientia; proe, before, and scientia, knowledge.] Foreknowledge; knowledge of events before they take place. Absolute prescience belongs to God only.

Of things of the most accidental and mutable nature, God's prescience is certain.

62 posted on 12/31/2002 1:56:18 PM PST by Jael
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To: rwfromkansas
Feel free to refute any information supplied. Do not feel free to slander or libel people you don't know.
63 posted on 12/31/2002 1:57:44 PM PST by Jael
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To: sinkspur
Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies
64 posted on 12/31/2002 1:58:29 PM PST by Wrigley
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To: Luna; All
You might find this section of the word mightily interesting:


Ezek 36:16-37:14
"16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.
21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I SPRINKLE CLEAN WATER upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I GIVE you, and a new spirit will I PUT within you: and I will TAKE away the STONY heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will PUT my spirit within you, and ***CAUSE*** you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye SHALL be my people, and I will be your God.
29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.
34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.
35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.
36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.
37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be inquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.
38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

CHAPTER 37

1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will CAUSE breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and PUT breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye SHALL know that I am the LORD.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And I shall PUT my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD."

OH BOY.....THE SINFUL PEOPLE DO *****NOTHING**** TO SAVE THEMSELVES HERE. GOD DOES IT ****ALL****!

This is one of the rare passages in Scripture that talk of salvation from GOD'S perspective. More often, it speaks of us "choosing" God because it is written with the human perspective so that we may understand......after all, Scripture is not written for God, but for us. But, this is one part where GOD DOES THE TALKING DIRECTLY! He does not use inspired men to expound his truths; this is a direct statement from the living God given to the prophet EXACTLY AS GOD STATED IT. Obviously it must be pretty gosh darn important and it would be foolish to ignore it. Now, notice what God says.....he says "I will." He does not say "please choose this day." He says "I will CAUSE YOU TO...." GOD CAUSES THIS RAISING FROM SPIRITUAL DEATH; THEY DO ****NOT***** CHOOSE IT!!

Now, if God can CAUSE adults and children to come alive in Christ, would it not make sense that HE COULD CAUSE INFANTS AND EVEN BABIES IN THE WOMB TO DO SO AS WELL??????????? OF COURSE THAT MAKES SENSE!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT, HE DOES THAT TO THOSE HE DESIRES TO BE HIS PEOPLE....(BTW, CHECK IT OUT, THE NT SAYS GOD SENT CHRIST TO "MAKE FOR HIMSELF A PEOPLE"), NOT JUST ANY OLD BABY THAT HAPPENS TO DIE.

HE DOES THIS TO HIS ELECT.

65 posted on 12/31/2002 1:58:40 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
They have not observed the Creation, as the people spoken of in the quoted passage have.
66 posted on 12/31/2002 1:58:43 PM PST by Jael
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To: sinkspur
You're just set yourself up.
67 posted on 12/31/2002 1:59:51 PM PST by lockeliberty
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To: ventana
Unless you beleive in the heresy that infants are perfect and pure without the stain of sin, you are a disrupter?
68 posted on 12/31/2002 2:00:16 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: lockeliberty; rwfromkansas; RnMomof7
I am not a he. And if you think you can lie about me and get away with it, you have another thing coming. There are people who post here who know me. I worked for Dr. Alan Keyes before and during the election.

I have not come here making any trouble for you. I have posted from Scripture. There is no reason for you to try and lie about me.
69 posted on 12/31/2002 2:00:59 PM PST by Jael
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To: ReformedBeckite
A baby has no understanding of a Created world.
70 posted on 12/31/2002 2:01:57 PM PST by Jael
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To: sinkspur
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
False.

So the Bible lies?

71 posted on 12/31/2002 2:03:08 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
These fools have no ability to comprehend the word "like," do they?

What absolute ignorance. I am starting to get really angry on this thread.....goodness.
72 posted on 12/31/2002 2:03:19 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: Jael
That's kewl. I believe you. You just sounded familar. Carry on. Quoting scripture and understanding scripture are 2 different things.
73 posted on 12/31/2002 2:05:19 PM PST by lockeliberty
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To: sinkspur; OrthodoxPresbyterian
Is this true?

The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

sinkspur: False.

LOL...you are a catholic, no supprise you would say the bible is false. ROFLOL.

Psalms, 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

LOL LOL LOL LOL I just can't stop LOL.

BigMack

74 posted on 12/31/2002 2:06:05 PM PST by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Wow OP.......EXCELLENT QUESTION!!!

If babies did not inherit a sinful nature, they obviously could not die, could they? Very insightful......
75 posted on 12/31/2002 2:06:08 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: RnMomof7
Thanks for the defense. :-)

Judges 5:24  ¶Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent.
76 posted on 12/31/2002 2:07:07 PM PST by Jael
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To: Jael
Running through the concordance the words 'all' and posting isn't exactly going to convince anybody. You are ignoring context as well.
77 posted on 12/31/2002 2:07:59 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: rwfromkansas
Names not written? Of course not, according to foreknowledge.
78 posted on 12/31/2002 2:08:30 PM PST by Jael
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To: sinkspur
"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5
79 posted on 12/31/2002 2:09:22 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: sinkspur
"...Every inclination of his (man's) heart is evil from childhood." Genesis 8:21
80 posted on 12/31/2002 2:09:57 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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