Proxy Baptism

Ensign ^ | 1977 | John A. Tvedtnes

[Corin Stormhands]

But I DO know that baptisms are performed by one having authority from, and commissioned by, Christ.

Okay. I can accept that. I had read your initial statement to mean that you have the authority to baptize because Christ baptized.

[Illbay]

No, sorry I wasn't clear. I mean that the authority to baptize COMES from Christ.

[scripter]

Christ was answering them regarding marriage for time only. And when He "they neither marry nor are given in marriage," He meant that they do not marry in the world of spirits

That doesn't fit the context as I see it. Jesus said none of the brothers will be married to the woman - they will be like the angels in heaven. Jesus is saying the concept of marriage, the concept of family (as we know it) won't exist in heaven. I don't see anything about: if you get married by the proper authority in the temple, then if you continue to live worthily you can have your family [and marriage?] in heaven. Where does that come from?

[Illbay]

I understand what you are saying, but we interpret it that none of the brothers were ever "sealed" to this woman.

Marriage for eternity was revealed later to the Church, probably during the forty days of Christ's ministry to His disciples between His resurrection and His ascension.

[RnMomof7]

I understand what you are saying, but we interpret it that none of the brothers were ever "sealed" to this woman.

Sealing was saved for Joseph Smith I take it?

[scripter]

I understand what you are saying, but we interpret it that none of the brothers were ever "sealed" to this woman.

Ephesians 4:30 talks about being sealed by the Holy Spirit but that's about all a cursory search finds regarding us and getting sealed.

Marriage for eternity was revealed later to the Church, probably during the forty days of Christ's ministry to His disciples between His resurrection and His ascension.

I don't know what your source is, as the Bible says there won't be marriage in heaven.

[Alex Murphy]

We believe the priesthood of Aaron, and of Melchizedek, were restored once again to the earth...

I wanted to ask this anyway, so I'm glad you raised the topic first. Which of the two priesthoods do you belong to?

[Illbay]

The "heaven" that Christ speaks of is the spirit world.

That is our belief.

[Illbay]

I hold both of them.

[LaineyDee]

I used to question this concept... but after reading the parable about the rich man and Lazarus.....it settled it for me.

Luke 16

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

Baptism for the dead would apparently be useless, according to this scripture. I need to ask a Messianic Jewish friend of mine who knows the traditions of the early church better than I. BTW, thanks for the ping.

[editor-surveyor]

"Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist..."

What kind of liquor is a Calvinist Cordial made with?
(probably a mug of Martzen, right?)

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Baptism is necessary for salvation, what YOU call "advancement," just as Christ taught.***


I thank God that I baptized NONE of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I baptized in my own name.
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas; besides, I KNOW NOT whether I baptized any other.
FOR CHRIST SENT ME NOT TO BAPTIZE BUT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL: not with words of wisdom lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1 Cor,1:14-17

If it was so important why wasn't he commissioned to do it as the 12 were?

Cornelius received the HOLY SPIRIT before he was baptized. Was he then saved before or after baptism as MARK 16 states that the HOLY SPIRIT was to be given after baptism.
And these signs shall FOLLOW them that believe.....

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***the partaking of the sacrament of the Lord's supper****

Bread and WATER?

[Illbay]

If it was so important why wasn't he commissioned to do it as the 12 were?

Because an Apostle's main "job" isn't to baptize, but to stand as a "special witness" for Christ.

Our apostles today do not baptize (well, I'm sure they would baptize one of their children, but that's about it).

We have plenty whose job it is to baptize, but only a few Apostles. This is what Paul meant.

Cornelius received the HOLY SPIRIT before he was baptized.

So did I. But I did not receive the GIFT of the Holy Ghost until AFTER I was baptized, just as Christ did.

And these signs shall FOLLOW them that believe.....

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."--James 2:17

[Illbay]

Yes, bread and water.

[A.J.Armitage]

Yes, bread and water.

What a perfect representation of Mormonism: you turned wine into water.

BTW, isn't bread and water what you give prisoners as a punishment?

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

****I do not know whether or not Christ baptized
anyone while in mortality, but I also do not know that He didn't. ***

DO SOME RESEARCH! READ THE BIBLE!

When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more deciples than John,
(Though Jesus himself baptized NOT, but his deciples,)
He left Judea, and departed into Galilee.
John 4:1-3

Now, wasn't that easy?

[drstevej]

PING.... AJA said the secret word. Another FRM is needed!

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Because an Apostle's main "job" isn't to baptize, but to stand as a "special witness" for Christ.***

Sooo, Why were the 12 authorized to baptize if they really wern't required to?

Paul was not authorized to baptize, BUT HE DID!

[A.J.Armitage]

The secret word? This doesn't mean you've begun imitating Masonry too, does it?