Rabbi warns: Some Christians are attempting to convert Jews

PJ Star.Com (Journal Star) ^ | April 1, 2003 | Sarah Okeson

[HiTech RedNeck]

Just shows to go you that a PhD in New Testament doesn't mean you know squat about Christianity.

[Quix]

Like I said,

THERE ARE PLENTY OF EXTRENSIC BELIEVERS IN ANY PHILOSOPHICAL GROUP.

And I have met very few good churches, balanced, kind, loving, Scriptural, well led in humility and servant-heartedness etc. OF ANY DENOMINATION OR BELIEF STRUCTURE.

Most churches of every persuasion I've been in are mixtures of basket cases in this or that area--and usuallys everal areas. I have every reason to believe your sect to be the same even without knowing what it specifically is.

The phenomenon of putting one's belief system on like a coat for Sunday for business purposes or whatever is common for a variety of reasons in all philosophical orientations.

I also noted, you may have had a very skewed sample in your life experiences.

Though my conviction is that your biases have skewed your observations.

I had an A of G pastor once who noted that if a hypocrite was between God and you, he was closer to God than you were.

[Illbay]

Well, I guess he's trying to say that many conservative Christians are very supportive of Jews. He's probably right.

But he doesn't address the fact that they still want to convert these Jews if they can. I say "more power to 'em."

This notion that "Jews don't need conversion for they already have a covenant with God," seems to completely ignore the Old Testament record. Quite bizarre.

[Gurn]

Now we're getting somewhere.

How is a Jew that disdains Jesus Christ and refuses to acknowledge His Messiahship, "Chosen" exactly?

I believe that the Jews are still God's Covenant people. Scripture tells us that He used the Jews to bring the Messiah to the Gentiles. I've read nothing in the Scripture that holds that their collective rejection of Christ means that they're no longer God's Covenant people. And, as I said earlier, my reading of Romans leads me to the conclusion that God wants them to accept Christ.

You sectarians have such a quaint, diffuse "theology" concerning this. All the more humorous because two generations ago, Jews were "Christ-killers" as far as you were concerned.

Well, I can't speak for all "sectarians"; I'm a Protestant, and a Baptist. And, "two generations ago" I wasn't alive, so it would be hard for you to say anything "as far as [I was] concerned."

I think until Vatican II, it was an article of Catholic faith that "the Jews killed Christ." That's their deal, not mine. I've never held to that perverted belief, though I've known some Catholics who have.

Here's the bottom line: My sin killed Christ.

[Quix]

SO DO EARNEST BELIEVING SO BAPS AND A OF G'S

oh haughty one.

[Quix]

Now I can wholesale agree with you.

Thanks.

[HiTech RedNeck]

"everybody" killed Christ.

[Gurn]

...of Latter Day Saints?

[Quix]

Holy Spirit thru Paul indicated clearly that

KNOWLEDGE PUFFS UP.

[Quix]

I do suspect that God will still apply the Scripture

HE THAT SEEKS ME SHALL FIND ME

even for earnest Jews--somehow.

I believe they will still have to repent, confess, accept Christ as their Savior; Jesus' Blood death, resurrection etc. I suspect God CAN arrange that at their points of death but I sure wouldn't want to build a doctrine on that personal belief of mine.

[narses]

Some of the Catholic hierarchy told us Catholics that converting Jews was wrong. I think they made an error, but they did say that.

[HiTech RedNeck]

But love edifies.

[Rippin]

Funny they don't seem bothered by Jehova's witness, Mormons etc.

[Natural Law]

Is he bitching or bragging?

[Quix]

True. True. Thanks for the exhortation.

As does praying In The Spirit.

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

I'm Assembly of God and I find the "shallow" charge to be quite understandable... as long as it is applied to society at a whole and not targeted specifically at Southern Baptist's and Assembly of God members. I have found about an equal mix of shallow and sincere people both within and outside of my Fellowship. For every Jimmy Swaggart we have, we have a Mark Buntain. For every Jim Baker, a Tommy Barnett.

As for viewing the Jews a chosen people, even when they reject the Messiah, I would refer you to the Parable of our Lord of the Prodigal Son. This son had a birthright and he squandered it. When he returned to his father, his father accepted him and his brother rejected him. Should Christians act like the father or the brother in that story? You seem to suggest that we should have antipathy towards those who walked away from their birthright, but those "shallow" followers hope and pray that our brothers will come back home and accept their birthright again. We want to see our Father run to greet them when they walk through the gate. Sorry if that seems like hate to some people, I believe Jesus when he called that love.

[katnip]

What we need are truly civilized Jews

What the heck is that supposed to mean?

[Illbay]

Again, this is all "new stuff" for Protestants--or any Christians, in fact.

You have to ignore certain portions of the Bible--particularly the Book of Acts, and especially the Pauline Epistles--to believe that Jews who refuse to accept Christ are "chosen."

Jews are beloved of God--just like ALL His Children are.

But only those of His children who accept His Son, repent, and are baptized by proper authority and receive the Holy Ghost, as the Savior repeatedly taught, can be considered "chosen."

"Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ." Jews are not exempt from that prophecy. In fact, when their ancestors refused to heed the prophets sent to warn them, they were punished severely.

I doubt that God has changed very much since that time.

[Illbay]

Absolutely.

[DensaMensa]

} we also believe that they are God's chosen people

Would you explain what "chosen people" means?