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Pope prepares to lift restrictions on Tridentine Mass
Catholic Herald (UK) ^ | 2nd May 2003 | Simon Caldwell

Posted on 05/02/2003 7:36:55 AM PDT by Tantumergo

The Pope might soon allow the world's Catholic priests the right to celebrate the old rite Latin Mass on Sundays and holy days without the permission of their bishops, according to sources close to the Vatican.

John Paul II is understood to be ready to grant a "universal indult" by the end of the year to permit all priests to choose freely between the celebration of Mass in the so-called Tridentine rite used up to 1962 - before the disciplinary reforms of the Second Vatican Council - and the novus ordo Mass used after 1970.

It will mean that a priest who wants to celebrate old rite Masses will no longer need to apply for an indult to Ecclesia Dei, a pontifical commission set up to study the implications of the Lefebvrist schism, after first gaining permission from his bishop. The indult may be announced as part of the publication of forthcoming juridical notes on Ecclesia de Eucharistia, the new encyclical on the Eucharist, published on Holy Thursday, in which the Pope affirmed the Church's traditional teaching of the sacrificial nature of the Mass.

It might also be announced at the Basilica of St Mary Major in Rome on May 24, when Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, the Prefect for the Congregation of the Clergy and the president of Ecclesia Dei, becomes the first cardinal prefect to celebrate an old rite Mass in a main Roman basilica for 30 years. Organised by the Latin Mass movement, Una Voce, the event is one of many indications that Rome is dropping restrictions on the celebration of the old rite.

Last month, the Holy Father, who celebrated a Tridentine Mass last summer, published a command called Rescriptum ex Audientia to authorise the celebration of the old rite Mass in St Peter's Basilica, Rome, by any priest who possessed an indult. The Vatican also asked the Scottish bishops, ahead of their five-yearly ad limina visit to Rome in March, to reveal what provisions they made for the celebration of the old rite Mass in their dioceses. Since the meeting, the Scottish bishops have stepped up their provision from just four a year in the whole of the country to at least one a month in Glasgow and Edinburgh.

The same requests have been made in a questionnaire to the English and Welsh bishops, whose next ad limina visit to Rome will take place in the autumn. The bishops have invited the Latin Mass Society (LMS), set up to promote the practice of the old rite, to submit a report on the provision of the Tridentine Mass ahead of their low week meeting in London this week when they were scheduled to discuss the issue.

John Medlin, LMS development officer, confirmed that a "full document" had been circulated to the bishops but refused to discuss its contents.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology; Worship
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To: american colleen
Nevertheless it will be one more nail in the coffin of modernism. Give it time.
41 posted on 05/02/2003 10:38:28 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: Alberta's Child; BlackElk
Tell you what. Send them to Milwaukee, and we will send our "refuseniks" out to you in LA.

We are going to need priests up here REAL soon--as Abp Dolan will shortly encounter his first "job action" by the wonks Rembert Weakland trained and ordained.
42 posted on 05/02/2003 10:38:41 AM PDT by ninenot
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To: american colleen
At this very moment, YOU are reading one of the best Catholic events newspapers in the USA--FR. Won't take THAT long for word to get around.
43 posted on 05/02/2003 10:40:55 AM PDT by ninenot
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To: nickcarraway
I bet such transaltion already exist, anyway.

They do exist. I seem to be one of the few people who remembers this (and I'm not a million years old), but in the late 50s-60's there was an English translation of the Tridentine rite that was occasionally used in certain parishes, with special permission, of course. It was extremely accurate and extremely beautiful.

Many people assumed that the "Mass in the vernacular" was simply going to be the Tridentine rite, translated to the local language, with perhaps a few standard parts kept in Latin. What a surprise when it turned out to be a whole new rite that bore only a passing resemblance to the old Roman rite...

A general indult, not depending on the permission of the bishop, would be the best thing that could possibly happen to the Church right now.

Here in Gainesville, FL, my sister and some friends are trying to start a chapter of Una Voce. It would be nice to be able to do this and then not have to fight with the local ordinary to get him to let us have an occasional Mass (usually at a strange hour and in some out-of-the-way location).

44 posted on 05/02/2003 10:41:22 AM PDT by livius (Let slip the cats of conjecture.)
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To: wideawake
Yup
45 posted on 05/02/2003 10:43:16 AM PDT by ninenot
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To: american colleen
Keep the ICEL crew away from the translation process; with stun guns, if necessary. Any such translation should be poetic and dignified, like the Anglican Book of Common Prayer.
46 posted on 05/02/2003 10:43:57 AM PDT by Loyalist
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To: american colleen
"A common turning to the east during the Eucharistic Prayer remains essential. This is not a case of something accidental, but of what is essential. Looking at the priest has no importance. What matters is looking together at the Lord. It is not now a question of dialogue but of common worship." (Cardinal Ratzinger at Fontgombault, 2001.)

By "the Lord" he is referring to God the Father, to Whom the sacrifice is offered. We should all remember that it was Martin Luther who first turned the priest around to face the people. He also threw out the Offertory and focused on a communal meal for the assembly.
47 posted on 05/02/2003 10:44:57 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: nickcarraway
Why the vernacular--which is divisive? Latin unifies us, whether we hail from Singapore or Chicago. Any fool can follow it--even small kids do so easily and children have done so for more than a thousand years.
48 posted on 05/02/2003 10:52:08 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: Tantumergo
Thanks for posting this! Rumor mill or not, it's about the most hopeful thing I've heard in years.
49 posted on 05/02/2003 10:54:38 AM PDT by livius (Let slip the cats of conjecture.)
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To: NYer
Thanks for the ping. As for celebrating, I've seen pictures of the Tridentine rite Mass celebrated on the hood of a Jeep (WW II), so I think ways could be found.
50 posted on 05/02/2003 10:56:16 AM PDT by livius (Let slip the cats of conjecture.)
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To: wideawake
People fear the silence--it forces them to confront themselves--the depths of a modern void. They are precisely the ones who would benefit most from a more focused interior spiritual life. God speaks loudly in silence.
51 posted on 05/02/2003 10:56:50 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: ultima ratio
People fear the silence--it forces them to confront themselves--the depths of a modern void. They are precisely the ones who would benefit most from a more focused interior spiritual life. God speaks loudly in silence.

I think that's why so few practice contemplative prayer. I've tried making it a daily practice recently, but it's hard with my new job taking up a good part of the day. I think it is very benefitial to do so when you can though. If one were to confront their innermost thoughts and their lack of intimacy with God in contemplative prayer, it would probably reform their ways pretty quickly if they are God-fearing people.

52 posted on 05/02/2003 11:04:18 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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To: Tantumergo

As the saying goes, I will believe it when I see it.
53 posted on 05/02/2003 11:44:53 AM PDT by JNB
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To: ultima ratio
People fear the silence--it forces them to confront themselves--the depths of a modern void. They are precisely the ones who would benefit most from a more focused interior spiritual life. God speaks loudly in silence.

Yes.

54 posted on 05/02/2003 12:30:30 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Loyalist
Great news! This battle is going to be fought in the trenches.

Thanks for the ping.
55 posted on 05/02/2003 12:31:56 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: american colleen; sinkspur; wideawake
My preference (if the pope asks me) is for a Tridentine in the vernacular but with the Latin retained for short responses

You have that ... sorta ... in the EWTN mass.

How will they handle the robes? At the Tridentine mass, they wear those elaborate ones. Will it be a requirement to wear those robes or can they wear the NO robes?

I can see where post Vatican II churches will definitely encounter some obstacles, should they try to incorporate the Tridentine Rite in their respective churches.

Our post VCII church will be moderately renovated this year, especially to update the baptismal font. They claim it doesn't conform to VCII directives? Some of the ultra contemporary churches have "babbling brook" fonts. What's with that?

56 posted on 05/02/2003 1:03:38 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: NYer
The Tridentine vestments do not have to be as elaborate as they generally are - they just have to be nicer than the Hindu streetwear favored by too many NO celebrants.

As far as the baptismal font is concerned, the Second Vatican Council stated that both laving the forehead and immersion were valid methods of baptizing.

As usual, the churchwreckers have gotten gung-ho on immersion and like to claim that the Second Vatican Council requires immersion to be available, therefore it is essential to install a Zen-garden style "babbling brook" in the church so immersions can be practiced if anyone so desires and so the water in the immersion pool will not stagnate.

All that is nonsense.

57 posted on 05/02/2003 1:16:35 PM PDT by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: Tantumergo
I'm on my way out the door for a business trip, I can't even read the whole article.

If it's fully what I think, Thank the LORD!


58 posted on 05/02/2003 1:20:31 PM PDT by katnip
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To: wideawake
Another compromise which people have suggested is that Ordinary of the Mass - the Asperges, Confiteor, Kyrie, Credo, Sanctus, Canon, Agnus Dei etc. - should be retained in Latin. These are repeated every Sunday and it isn't asking much for Catholics to know these central prayers (about four pages worth of printed material) by heart.

Exactly, IMHO, where we will someday end up. My parish has used, during Lent, the last few years the Latin Sanctus and Agnus Dei, and the priests do the final "per ipsum" of the canon in Latin.

It is the beginning of a restoration of the Latin to the people. And none too soon, for those of us 30somethings, who are experiencing this for the first time ever.

SD

59 posted on 05/02/2003 1:46:34 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: nickcarraway
"I wonder if they will eventually allow Tridentine Mass in the vernacular..."

Personally I don't think so as that really would be the death of the Novus Ordo and would be seen by many of the bishops as a rejection of everything that they have "achieved" since Vatican II.

However if this ever were to happen I think it would be much more faithful to Vatican II than the Novus Ordo rite, as the Council only mandated "organic development" of the rites - not wholesale change.
60 posted on 05/02/2003 2:33:54 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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