My friend is seriously considering suicide. Is it ALWAYS wrong?

http://www.elca.org/dcs/suicide_prevention.html

A Message on
Suicide Prevention

Adopted by the Church Council of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America on November 14, 1999.

Each year more than 30,000 persons in the United States take their own life. Suicide is the eighth leading cause of death and the third leading cause among persons who are 15 to 24. More persons die by suicide than by homicide. Each year nearly 500,000 persons make a suicide attempt serious enough to receive emergency room treatment. Millions have suicidal thoughts.1

These numbers, we know, speak of individuals whose stories and relationships are unique. They speak of persons with whom we live in our families, congregations, neighborhoods, and work places. Some of us have attempted suicide, and others of us have made sure a relative or friend who is threatening suicide gets help. Many of us have mourned and anguished over the suicidal death of a loved one, and others of us will some day experience such unspeakable grief and suffering.

Suicide testifies to life's tragic brokenness. We believe that life is God's good and precious gift to us, and yet life for us ourselves and others sometimes appears to be hell, a torment without hope. When we would prefer to ignore, reject, or shy away from those who despair of life, we need to recall what we have heard: God's boundless love in Jesus Christ will leave no one alone and abandoned. We who lean on God's love to live are called to "bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Our efforts to prevent suicide grow out of our obligation to protect and promote life, our hope in God amid suffering and adversity, and our love for our troubled neighbor.

Increasingly, suicide is being viewed as a serious and preventable public health problem. 2 Suicide and its prevention are complex and multi- dimensional and need to be approached openly and comprehensively. Suicide prevention requires concerted and collaborative efforts from all sectors of society. Let us in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America contribute to these efforts. With this message, the Church Council encourages members, congregations, and affiliated institutions to learn more about suicide and its prevention in their communities, to ask what they can do, and to work with others to prevent suicide.

Becoming Aware
Suicide occurs in all social groups. It occurs among young, middle- aged, and older people; men and women; rich, middle class, and poor people; all ethnic and religious groups; married and single people; the employed and unemployed, and the healthy and the sick.

Yet statistics indicate that suicide is more prevalent among some groups than others:

White males account for nearly three-fourths of all completed suicides.
While there are four male suicides for every female one, women attempt suicide twice as often as do men.
The highest suicide rates are found among white men over 50, who represent 10 percent of the population and who are responsible for 33 percent of the suicides. Suicide rates for men over 65 are on the increase after a steady decrease from 1950- 1980.
Since 1950 the suicide rate for young men aged 15-24 has tripled, and for young women, it has more than doubled.
Although suicide among children is a rare event, there has been a dramatic increase in the reported suicide rate among persons aged 10-14.
Suicide rates for American Indians and Alaska Natives are well above the national average, with a disproportionate number of suicides among young men.
Suicide among young African American males, once uncommon, has increased sharply in recent years.
Suicide rates among some professions, such as police, farmers, dentists, and doctors, have been found to be higher than the national average.
Attempted suicide rates among youth struggling with questions about their sexual orientation are higher than among others of the same age.
Nearly 60 percent of all suicides are carried out with a firearm. People living in a household with a firearm are almost five times more likely to die by suicide than people who live in gun-free homes. 3

While there is no one cause of suicide, researchers tell us that suicidal behavior is associated with a number of risk factors that frequently occur in combination. These include:

Clinical depression and other mental illnesses. More than 60 percent of all people who complete suicide suffer from major depression. If one includes people who abuse alcohol and are depressed, the figure rises to 75 percent. Almost all people who take their own life have a diagnosable mental or substance abuse disorder or both.
Alcohol and substance abuse. Alcoholism is a factor in 30 percent of all completed suicides.
Adverse life events. Such events may be confusion about one's personal identity or a feeling of being cut off from others among young people; a family crisis like death or divorce; the loss of one's livelihood, perhaps caused by rural economic crisis, business downsizing, a cutting off of government programs, or addictive behavior; chronic, acute, or terminal illness; or the effects of a natural or social disaster. For most people, adverse life events do not lead to suicidal behavior. They may contribute to suicidal behavior in the context of mental illness and substance abuse.
Familial factors, such as a family history of suicide, of mental illness and substance abuse, of violence and sexual abuse.
Cultural or religious factors, such as beliefs that suicide is a noble resolution of a personal dilemma, or the destruction of a people's traditional culture that may lead to feelings of disconnectedness from the past, isolation, and hopelessness.
Prior suicide attempt, firearm in the home, incarceration, impulsive or aggressive tendencies, and exposure to the suicidal behavior of others (by family members or peers, or through inappropriate media coverage or fiction stories). Suicides among young people sometimes occur in clusters and may even become an epidemic. Young people are particularly susceptible to imitating behavior leading to unintended suicide. 4

"All persons who express suicidal ideas while exhibiting symptoms of depression, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, or schizophrenia should be evaluated promptly by a qualified health professional." In Clergy Response to Suicidal Persons and Their Family Members, ed. David C. Clark (Chicago: Exploration Press, 1993), 183. Clark directs the Center for Suicide Research and Prevention, Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke's Medical Center, Chicago. This book is a valuable resource for pastors and congregations. In it ELCA pastor and theologian Herbert Anderson writes on "A Protestant Perspective on Suicide."

Looking at Attitudes
Certain social attitudes form obstacles to suicide prevention. One such set of beliefs says that nothing can be done. "If it's going to happen, it will." "It's not worth trying to help, because these people have such huge problems that nothing can be done." "Suicide has been around forever; we're not going to change that fact." "Let them alone. If they want to kill themselves, that's their business."

Punitive attitudes form another obstacle to suicide prevention. These attitudes are eager to punish suicidal behavior and often blame the living for suicidal deaths. They create an environment in which suicidal behavior is concealed and persons with suicidal thoughts are reluctant to talk. Punitive attitudes are a carry over from the time when suicide was considered a crime and an unpardonable sin, and when those who completed suicide were denied Christian burial.

Failure to understand major depression as an illness also obstructs suicide prevention. Some misguided attitudes view serious depression as a character deficit, a human weakness, or a rare, untreatable, and permanent condition. These convey to depressed people that they should "tough it out" or be embarrassed or ashamed by how they feel. In truth, clinical depression is a disease involving changes in brain chemistry. It is one of the most common diseases, and can happen to people who have no apparent reason "to be depressed." Although clinical depression often goes untreated because it is not recognized, it is a very treatable mental illness. Depressed people cannot treat themselves, but they can be helped by professionals through medication or therapy, or a combination of the two. Suicide is not an inevitable or acceptable outcome of depression. 5

Experts speak of common misunderstandings that stand in the way of suicide prevention:

Myth: Persons who talk about suicide rarely actually complete suicide; they are just wanting attention and should be challenged in order to "call their bluff." The truth is that persons who talk about suicide are serious and may be giving a clue or warning of their intentions. They should not be challenged but given assistance in obtaining professional help.
Myth: A person who has made a serious suicide attempt is unlikely to make another. The truth is that persons who have made prior attempts are often at greater risk of completing suicide. A suicide attempt is a cry for help and a warning that something is terribly wrong and should be taken with utmost seriousness.
Myth: The suicidal person wants to die and feels there is no turning back. The truth is that suicidal persons often feel ambivalent about dying. They often go through a long process in which they try various ways to reduce their profound emotional pain. The balance between their contradictory desires to live and to die shifts back and forth, even up to the time of taking their life.
Myth: Most people who take their life have made a careful, well- considered, rational decision. The truth is that persons considering suicide often have "tunnel vision": in their unbearable pain they are blind to available alternatives. Frequently, the suicide act is impulsive. When their suffering and pain are reduced, most will choose to live.
Myth: Asking about suicidal feelings will cause one to attempt suicide. The truth is that asking a person about suicidal feelings provides an opportunity to get help that may save a life. The listener should ask if the person has formulated a plan and has access to the means to carry it out. If the intent, a plan, and the means are there, the suicidal person should not be left alone but be helped to get treatment immediately, by calling 911 if necessary. 6

Suicide Prevention Helpcard *

If someone you know:

threatens suicide

talks or writes about wanting to die

appears depressed, sad, withdrawn, hopeless

shows significant changes in behavior, appearance, mood (either from being "normal" to being depressed or the reverse)

abuses drugs, alcohol

deliberately injures himself or herself

says he or she will not be missed if gone

gives away treasured belongings . . .

You can help:

stay calm and listen

take threats seriously

let him or her talk about his or her feelings

be accepting; do not judge

ask if he or she has suicidal thoughts

ask how intense and frequent these thoughts are

ask if he or she has a plan

ask if he or she has a means to carry out the plan

don't swear secrecy -- tell someone

assure the person it is okay and necessary to get help . . .

Get help: You can not do it alone

Accompany the person to your:

hospital emergency room

mental health services

police

family, friend, relative

clergy, teacher, counselor

family doctor

or call your crisis line

Call your 911 number for emergency assistance or check the inside front cover page of your telephone book for local crisis services. The National Crisis Helpline is 1-888-284-2433 (1- 888-SUICIDE). The National "Youth" Crisis Helpline is 1-800- 999-9999.

For information on the nearest ELCA social ministry organization providing non-emergency counseling for suicidal persons, call Lutheran Services in America (LSA), 800-664- 3848. You may visit LSA online at www.lutheranservices.org.

* Adapted from The Suicide and Information Center.

Receiving and Giving Help
"The church," Martin Luther once wrote, "is the inn and the infirmary for those who are sick and in need of being made well." 7 Luther's image of the Church as a hospital reminds us who we are a community of vulnerable people in need of help; living by the hope of the Gospel, we also are a community of healing. At the same time vulnerable and healed, we are freed for a life of receiving and giving help. In the mutual bearing of burdens, we learn to be persons who are willing to ask for healing and to provide it.

Whoever among us experiences suicidal thoughts should know that the rest of us expect, pray, and plead for them to reach out for help. "Talk to someone. Don't bear your hidden pain by yourself." The notion is all- too-common that one should "go it alone": Persons are not supposed to be vulnerable, and when they are, they should conceal it and handle things on their own. In the Church, however, we admit that we all share the "need of being made well." There is no shame in having suicidal thoughts or asking for help. Indeed, when life's difficulties and disappointments threaten to overwhelm our desire to live, we are urged and invited to talk with trusted others and draw upon their strength.

When, on the other hand, a loved one talks to us of suicide or we sense that something is seriously amiss, we are called to be our brother's or sister's keeper. The experience may be frightening, and we may want to deny or minimize the suicidal communication. We may want to shy away because we feel unprepared to help someone with suicidal thoughts or think that we may make matters worse. Yet our responsibility is to listen, to encourage the person to talk, and to get him or her appropriate help. 8 Beyond the crisis situation, we will want that person to hear the healing comfort of the Gospel and receive the care of the congregation. That care might, for example, involve creating an ongoing support network for a person and his or her family.

Pastors have unique opportunities to minister with suicidal persons, in part because many people are often more willing to approach clergy than other caregivers. Chaplains in hospitals and nursing homes, colleges and universities, the military, and prisons as well as counselors in church agencies are called upon to counsel suicidal persons. Their concern is to explore the suffering that motivates the person's thoughts and behavior and to comfort the person through his or her anguish. Drawing upon their pastoral wisdom, pastors may seek to discern to what extent the person's suffering is spiritual or has other sources. They will refer (and often accompany) suicidal persons to professional health care and mental health providers for other forms of intervention and assistance. The pastoral response will bring God's Word to bear on the situation with compassion, competence, and willingness to collaborate with other care providers.

When a suicide does occur, congregations and pastors minister to the bereaved and deceased through Christian burial and their loving support. Funerals are not occasions either to condemn or idealize an act of suicide, but times to proclaim that suicide and death itself do not place one beyond the communion of saints. Because of Christ's death and resurrection for us, we entrust a troubled person to God's love and mercy with the promise that "whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's" (Romans 14:7). Pastor and congregation need to offer intentional and sensitive care for the family and loved ones of the deceased for some time and offer them the opportunity to become part of a support group for survivors. 9

Preparing to Act
Suicide prevention is broader than responding to a crisis situation. Prevention efforts also aim to reduce or reverse risk factors and to enhance protective factors before vulnerable persons reach the point of danger. They go together with efforts to prevent drug and alcohol abuse as well as violence. 10 "Protective factors include:

Effective and appropriate clinical care for mental, physical, and substance abuse disorders
Easy access to a variety of clinical interventions and support for help seeking
Restricted access to highly lethal methods of suicide
Family and community support
Support from ongoing medical and mental health care relationships
Learned skills in problem solving, conflict resolution, and nonviolent handling of disputes
Cultural and religious beliefs that discourage suicide and support self-preservation instincts." 11

What can we do in our congregations and communities to prevent suicide? The following is intended to stimulate discussion, reflection, and action.

Let us first recognize that the day-to-day preaching, teaching, and living of the Christian faith in congregations contribute to suicide prevention in indirect yet significant ways. In the community of the baptized, we come to know that we belong to God and to one another. There we give thanks to God for life and for our new life in Christ, and we are empowered to persevere during adversities and to hope in God when all else fails. We learn that human life is a sacred trust from God and that "deliberately destroying life created in the image of God is contrary to our Christian conscience." 12 We are equipped to empathize with others in their suffering and joy and are prepared to act for their wellbeing. We are given a reason to live, forgiveness to start anew, and confidence that neither life nor death can separate us from "the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8: 38). How, we might ask, do we do such things better?

When discussing love for others in confirmation classes, could we talk about what to do if a friend hints at suicide? How does our congregation ensure that all members are known and none are invisible? How do we become more attentive to changes in a person's participation that may indicate personal distress or depression? How do we strengthen the bonds of community with persons going through stressful periods in their lives and with older persons living alone so they do not feel isolated and abandoned? Might we begin or further develop congregational health ministries, such as a parish nurse program or Stephen Ministry? 13

How do we honor the vocation of members who are social workers, psychologists, doctors, nurses, counselors, and other caregivers who often work with suicidal persons? How do we find ways to assure them that when a person they are helping takes his or her life, they are not responsible for not "saving a life?" We also can draw upon these caregivers as well as upon survivors and advocates for suicide prevention to help educate other members about suicide.

What in our community, we should ask, are the cultural and social dynamics that lead to isolation and hopelessness? How do we address them? What are the resources in our community to respond to suicidal behavior? Do members know how to access them? We can join with other churches and community groups to help ensure that adequate treatment resources are available. What about our schools? Is suicide prevention a part of their programs that focus on mental health, substance abuse, aggressive behavior, and coping skills? Are there peer counseling or ministry programs in our schools and congregations?14

What about the firearms in our homes? Most gun owners reportedly keep a firearm in their home for "protection" or "self-defense," yet 83 percent of gun-related deaths in these homes are suicide, often by someone other than the gun owner. 15 Are our homes really safer with guns in them?, we might ask.

How do we counter the stigma often associated with mental illness? Should not the crucial role of untreated depression in suicidal behavior be an important consideration in debates on insurance coverage for mental illnesses? What might we do as citizens to promote accessible and affordable mental health services to enable all persons at risk for suicide to obtain needed substance abuse and treatment services? 16

We can encourage, use, and learn from suicide prevention programs in our social ministry organizations and at our colleges and universities. What, we should ask, could our church-related day schools do to prevent suicide? 17 How are our seminaries preparing pastors to minister with suicidal persons? Should suicide prevention be a part of continuing education for rostered persons? Could we create opportunities at events for youth, women, and men and in our camping and retreat programs to learn about suicide and its prevention?

The Church Council urges synods to support members, congregations, and affiliated institutions in their efforts to prevent suicide. It directs the governing bodies of churchwide units to evaluate their programs in light of this message, calling upon this church's educational and advocacy programs to make suicide prevention an important concern in their ministries. It directs the Department for Ecumenical Affairs to share this message with churches with whom we are in full communion and to express our willingness to work with them to prevent suicide. The Church Council welcomes the Surgeon General's call for a comprehensive national strategy for suicide prevention. 18

Before we go in peace from worship to serve the Lord in the trials and joys of the coming days, we receive the Benediction:
"The Lord bless you and keep you,
The Lord make his face shine on you
and be gracious to you.
The Lord look upon you with favor and give you peace."
"Amen," we sing. We are not alone, abandoned, and without hope. The Lord's name is "'Emmanuel,' which means, 'God is with us'" (Matthew 1:23).

Dear Friend:

My name is Kenneth. If a friend confided in you with her or his suicidal thoughts and feelings, I am sure you would, out of friendship, listen to and help your friend to see the suicidal thoughts and feelings more realistically. It is this same sense of friendship which has motivated me to prepare this material for you.

I am not a trained psychologist, but I do have a past history of suicidal thoughts, feelings and attempts. About 15 years ago, I took 120 pills all at once because I believed I was not able to carry on. Two days after taking the overdose, I was discovered unconscious and close to death. Through the brilliant and dedicated efforts of the hospital staff, I survived.

In the days following my survival, I realized that I would have to look at the underlying causes of my recurring suicidal thoughts and feelings. With time, I began to recognize that I had my first suicidal thoughts and feelings as a young child. Throughout my youth, adolescence, and early adulthood, suicide was always a viable option and one considered seriously.

Fifteen years after this near-fatal suicide attempt, I am glad that I found the courage to live and address the many reasons why I was suicidal and depressed. I fortunately had the help of others- friends, family members and a wise psychotherapist.

Fifteen years ago, the future looked too difficult and painful to endure. I can honestly say these past years were not always easy; but looking back, they have been also better than anything I could have imagined.

HERE IS THE GOOD NEWS:

Somehow, I seem to have had the strength to handle situations and issues that were making me very sad, afraid, angry, lonely and hopeless. Even though, at the time, I did not believe I had the will or strength.

In sharing my experience and insights with you, I hope you will take this opportunity to see if any part of my experience is similar to yours and if there are any insights which you can take and apply to yourself -especially when experiencing the powerful and convincing impulse to commit suicide. People who are genuinely happy rarely commit suicide.

Usually suicidal thoughts and feeling result from depression.

IF YOU SUSPECT THAT DEPRESSION IS PLAYING A KEY ROLE IN YOUR SUICIDAL IMPULSES, there are many effective psychotherapeutic techniques and medications which HELP relieve the excruciating pain of the horrible disease called depression. If you believe you are depressed, consult a medical professional without delay. YOU CAN BE HELPED!

The following is not a replacement or substitute for professional counseling. It is designed to share personal experience and insight. In writing this letter, I offer you a beacon of hope without your having to resort to belief or faith.

My hope is that, after reading the following, you will be empowered to see your suicidal impulses with a bit more objectivity and understanding. With this understanding, you will develop a deeper appreciation of the nature of your own thinking and experience.

I have found that in the past, when I had suicidal thoughts and feelings, they became MORE REALISTIC AND REAL every time I dwelt on them; and the more I dwelt on these thoughts and feelings, the more I was "trapped" in their relentless grip.

Suicidal thoughts and feelings are extremely painful and take up a lot of energy. This can leave one feeling further drained and depressed and, as such, further committed to the idea of suicide.

It is a mistake to believe that because one is suicidal that one is also psychologically or emotionally deficient. Many intelligent, caring people have come close to having a brush with death as a result of these thoughts and feelings.

At one point in my life, I believed that my having suicidal thoughts and feelings meant I wanted to die or I didn't want to live. Later I came to see that my having suicidal thoughts and feelings meant I was not getting the full picture of my experience and I had been dwelling on only one aspect of my thoughts and feelings (my suicidal ones) to the exclusion of virtually everything else.

A snapshot of my thoughts and feelings, while I was depressed and suicidal, shows the theme of my suicidal impulses. The basic thoughts and feelings were:
· I should kill myself · I know how I am going to do it · If I kill myself all my problems will go away and I will have a fresh start · Nobody will miss me · I am just better off dead.

Sometimes I would dwell on, let's say, the idea of "nobody will miss me" and then dwell upon the belief that "I am better off dead". Then, I would think over and over again about how I would kill myself, and then back again to believing nobody would miss me if I were dead.

It is as if suicidal thoughts and feelings can suck us in and keep us thinking more suicidal thoughts and feelings for hours, days, months and years, with little or no relief.

Sometimes I have even asked the difficult question over and over again, why? Or the even more difficult question, why me? I have found that trying to analyze these and other similar questions in order to gain understanding is virtually impossible, and essentially a waste of time and effort. For the real issue is not about morality, karma, God, or whether people who feel depressed and suicidal deserve this miserable pain.

The issue is about how to handle one's suicidal and depressing thoughts and feelings without being pulled into the vortex or center of their storm.

Although, I was receiving considerable support from my therapist and others, I wanted further information, knowledge and understanding. What did I do? I went to the bookstore and discovered the vast world of self-help, personal development and psychological support. I was amazed to discover the many, possibly hundreds of books which all seemed to have, or purported to have, THE ANSWER.
I was rightfully confused.

I was overwhelmed and very depressed by the question that, if so many people have the answer, why are there so many unhappy people? Oddly enough, I was so depressed by the decision I had to make in choosing a book, that I found myself feeling extremely suicidal once again.

Standing in front of the self-help section of the bookstore, my thinking went something like this:
· I should kill myself. I will never be able to find a book which will help. · I know how I am going to do it. If God loved people, He surely wouldn't make life so difficult. · If I kill myself all my problems will go away and I will have a fresh start. Solving my problems seems impossible; I'll never figure it out. · Nobody will miss me. I can't even choose a simple book. · I am just better off dead. All these so-called experts just don't understand how bad I feel.

Fortunately, something happened! A voice came over the P.A. system and I was jarred out of my suicidal thoughts and feelings. I quickly chose a book about depression and brought it home and began to read.

After I read the book, I bought and read another and then another and another until I had read every single book I could find, which related to my sadness, grief, disappointment, anger, rage, and utter loss of faith in myself and my ability to be happy ever again.

I read over 100 books and articles. I remember thinking, after this serious reading, that if I could find the common denominator of all these books, theories and teachings, then I would have a possible key to addressing, effectively, the underlying causes of my depression and suicidal feelings.

And so, methodically, I went through the books and articles I had read to find some common thread.

I discovered all the teachings at one point referred to: jotting down thoughts as they come, meditating, prayer, relaxing, contemplating or watching one's breath or listening to one's heartbeat. Often they suggested, as fundamental to the success of their various techniques "to regularly take some time each and every day to simply listen to yourself, and your thoughts and feelings".
In time, I began to listen regularly to my thoughts and feelings; ESPECIALLY WHEN I was feeling suicidal.

Eventually, I discovered that when I was depressed and suicidal, I was only tuning into one very limited aspect of my experience - my depressed and suicidal thoughts. However, through listening to myself, I was able to hear and identify other thoughts and feelings.

Some of these thoughts and feelings were profound and self-loving and as such, highly useful.

For example:
· I should kill myself. I have tried the best I could but it never seems to work out. I have tried all my life to be a good person and I know I am a good person. If they just knew how bad I am feeling, they would understand.
· I know how I am going to do it. Why was I treated the way I was treated? Nobody seems to understand. It seems that people who don't care don't get hurt. I care. I care a lot about people. I even care about animals. My stomach is rumbling. I hardly have enough energy to eat.
· If I kill myself all my problems will go away and I will have a fresh start. I love myself but I feel like I can't go on. I have had some good times though. But they seem so far away right now. Nothing ever works. I've failed. I'm no good.

· Nobody will miss me. Something must be wrong with me. Nobody else feels this way. I seem to have to work so hard just to be happy when for others, happiness comes so easily. I know that if I had the chance, I could figure it out.. But I am just so worn out and tired.

· I am just better off dead. Anything must be better than this. I really need someone to talk to. I wonder who I can call? I just feel so lonely. I wish someone could just hold me.

Of course, I had many more thoughts and feelings sandwiched in between the depressed and suicidal ones. But the little example which I outlined above shows some of the positive, life supporting thoughts and feelings I had:
·I have tried all my life to be a good person and I know I am a good person. ·I care. I care a lot about people. ·I even care about animals. ·I love myself. ·I have had some good times though. ·I know that if I had the chance, I could figure it out. ·I wonder who I can call?

When I began to listen to a BIGGER PICTURE of the thoughts and feelings I was having, I was able to see my suicidal and depressed thoughts, objectively, in the company of other thoughts and feelings. As a result of this increase in self-awareness or understanding, it seemed as if the magnetism or pull of the depressing and suicidal thoughts and feelings was not as strong.

These painful thoughts and feelings were being "diluted by an awareness of other (life-supporting) thoughts and feelings.

Gradually, I began to have some hope for the future, a little peace in the present and more understanding of the past. I have found that if I keep repeating something to myself, then my mood gradually becomes affected by what I am saying.

For example, if I keep saying to myself: War. Famine. Crime. Murder. Pain. Suffering. Unemployment. The Homeless - then after a time, I begin to feel depressed and hopeless about all the problems in the world.

By the same token if I repeat words like KINDNESS. GOODWILL. COMPASSION. LOVE. TOLERANCE. PEACE. GENTLENESS - then after just even a few seconds, I start to feel a bit more positive and cheerful and sometimes, people who emulate these qualities come to mind and the whole planet seems less of a cruel, heartless, planet.

Over the years, I have had the opportunity to speak with many people who have felt depressed and suicidal. I have never met anyone who usually enjoyed feeling this way.

I have even been told that people who are feeling suicidal and depressed feelings are "just that way because they want sympathy" and that " all they need is a good kick in the butt to stop them from feeling sorry for themselves."
These statements are sometimes made in an attempt to shock one out of a depressed or suicidal state. However, I have found in the past, these and other similar statements have only led me to feel even more worthless and incapable of breaking through my suffering.

Years ago, a good friend of mine told me that when one is feeling depressed and suicidal, more often than not, insight vanishes and one begins to believe that the pain and suffering will continue for ever. This friend was right. At one point in my life, I believed I was doomed to suffer forever.

From experience I can tell you honestly, The pain and suffering do pass away with time. I find that simply being aware of what it is that I think and feel (without feeling bad about myself because I think or feel as I do) plays a significant role in my increasing happiness.

One of the most interesting things I have learned about thoughts and feelings is that they, by themselves, are neither good nor bad. I discovered, I do not have to act on all the thoughts and feelings which I may have.

One person may think, "I feel like eating a big piece of chocolate cake". And chooses not to eat the cake because he or she has diabetes. Another person who is also diabetic may have the idea and chooses to eat the cake despite the medical condition. In both cases, the thought or feeling to have a big piece of chocolate cake was the same. The decision to act on the thought or feeling was different.
In the same way, when it comes to suicidal thoughts and feelings we can listen to them (often they seem to have a way of making themselves heard), but as humans, we have the ability to realize that our painful thoughts and feelings mean that we are experiencing pain.

Sometimes painful feelings surface as thoughts different from their original cause. In the same way, a very bad toothache can make us snappy or miserable to a loved one whom we would never ever want to hurt.

I am sure, if you and I had the opportunity to talk and you told me your life story, there would be a lot that I COULD LEARN FROM YOU. You probably have handled situations and issues which were extremely difficult and yet you managed to deal with them with a bit of class, courage and sense of humour.

I have created this letter because of all the help I have received over the years. I want to give back something and help others.As I said previously, in the past, I suffered with my suicidal thoughts and feelings. Today these thoughts and feelings are no longer a reality in my life.
In sharing my experience with you, I hope you can see that It is very possible and likely, that one day, (maybe today!) you will begin to feel a bit more hopeful about your situation and not feel so bad.

I hope you can see the amount of care I have put into this writing because I intuitively feel there is probably a lot about you that is unique, talented, special, of great value and worth caring about.

When I was feeling very down, and hopeless and powerless, it was good to hear some encouraging words from someone who truly cared. Even though, at first, I did not believe or trust the words, caring or kindness of the person who was helping me.

I have found that true kindness, regardless of how I felt or what I believed at the time, always helped to relieve my horrible pain. You may believe, at this time, nobody would want to help you. I can say, from experience, there are many people who are willing to lend a gentle, caring hand. ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS ASK FOR HELP.

If you cannot think of anyone, please CALL YOUR CRISIS OR SUICIDE PREVENTION LINE - (usually listed inside the front cover of the telephone book or white pages).

These kind. dedicated and trained people will help you because they genuinely understand. You are not alone; and YES, YOU DO HAVE A FRIEND! When I was feeling bad and needed their help, THEY HELPED ME A LOT.

Love Kenneth

SOME HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS IF YOU FIND YOURSELF CAUGHT IN THE STORM OF SUICIDAL THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS:
· CALL your local crisis or suicide prevention line (usually listed inside the front cover of the telephone book or white pages) or a trusted friend, social worker or clergy and
· TALK. They will not think something is wrong with you or that you are "weird" or "crazy".
· SHARE your suicidal thoughts and feelings, fears, anger, disappointment and sorrow.
· BE ACTIVE. Go for a walk and get some exercise. Often depressing and suicidal thoughts and feelings fade when something or someone else stimulates us.
· DO SOMETHING - anything. It does not have to be a HUGE project - but a little project LIKE TIDYING UP a counter or small cupboard. Remember to PRAISE YOURSELF for the work you have done.
· START A CREATIVE PROJECT in art, gardening, music, crafts, writing etc. Don't worry if your project is not a masterpiece. Many people have found when they are working on creative projects, they forget their painful suffering.
· Find someone or an animal or plant who could USE YOUR LOVE AND CARE.
· REMEMBER that along with your suicidal thoughts and feelings You are having other thoughts and feelings which are not suicidal.
· LISTEN to your thoughts and feelings without analyzing them, letting them come and go WITHOUT dwelling on them.
· IDENTIFY and ACKNOWLEDGE other thoughts and feeling which are not suicidal.
· REMEMBER that you have experienced times in your life when you did not have suicidal thoughts and feelings because you were not depressed but were hopeful at the time.
· REMEMBER times in which you may have felt strong suicidal thoughts and feelings that eventually passed into times of other thoughts and feelings which were not depressing but WERE HOPEFUL and you were able to look forward.
· ACKNOWLEDGE for yourself that having suicidal thoughts in the midst of other thoughts is emotionally draining and that you have shown incredible strength in remaining alive and staying alive in spite of the powerful suicidal thoughts and feelings that you may have.
· In the same way that you do not believe or act upon all the thoughts and feelings that you may have, REMEMBER that just because you may have a suicidal thought or feeling, you do not have to believe or act upon the thought or feeling.

at the simplest level - its a squandering of Christs atonement and work on the Cross.

If God is denied the ability to have a relationship with you through faith and a right walk, will God say "well done" (2 Tim 4:7 & Matt 25:21) or will He say "I never knew you" (Matt 7:23)

If the word wrong means do you lose your salvation then no, but Jesus, unlike Saul, didn't kill himself to avoid being tortured. The idea of turture bothers me more than anything and if I faced it, I might try to figure out a quicker way to expedite getting to heaven.

Please don't take this wrong, as I'm sure not trying to be provocative. Although I understand and agree with much of what you wrote, the manner in which it was written would tend to push him further toward the choice of "checking out" because he would be angry, when he gets angry he tends to get more "foggy" in his perception, and he starts to feel even moe hopeless.

You're not being provocative... if anything, I was. And I would apologize for my tone, but... I'm sorry. Having lost one close friend to Suicide, and (probably) one close relative (the death-circumstances there are slightly murky, suicide-vs-"accident" -- there was a fair chunk of Life Insurance involved)... I don't have a lot of sympathy for "considering Suicide". Is it always wrong? Heck yes, it's always wrong... it's an incredibly Selfish act by it's very nature, especially where there is the Abandonment of Friends and Family involved (as is evidently the case here), one of the most egregious acts of Pride and Vanity I can imagine, and -- while this Moral Analogy on my part is going to be horribly inexact -- committing Suicide out of "shame" strikes me as Morally Akin to the (far too numerous) cases of self-professed "Christians" (both females, and the males who impregnate them) who choose to commit Abortion rather than face the "Shame" of illegitimate (or adulterous) pregnancy.

murder

(or in this case, self-murder)

No way -- I don't bloody well buy it. "Is self-murder always wrong"? To ask the question, is to answer it.

I'm 100% in agreement with "Thinkin' Gal" here --

This really is a pity party, and you've apparently fallen for it, well-intentioned as you may be. I am not trying to attack you at all... just trying to point out that this person may be manipulating you in a big way, driving home my suspicions that he's on a narcissistic soapbox. There is a reason I am writing this in the manner I do. It's because certain behavior requires stern warning, not mamby-pamby delicateness. The warning comes with the Scriptural answer: he needs to a) repent, and b) listen to God, not use to Bible to justify sin.

It may not even be a conscious, intentional pity party -- heck, it probably ain't -- but that's what it ends up being. He is, as TG points out, "trying to use the Bible to justify Sin". Sorry, kemosabe, no dice -- Homey don't play dat.

If your friend Claims to be a Christian -- and I am not disputing his claim, but his Claim definitely creates a Moral Standard to which he is bound to adhere -- then I would imagine (and I hope) that he considers Abortion to be a Moral Sin... period, no questions asked.

If so, I'd encourage you to ask him (correcting my "Tone" where necessary, as probably is necessary) just how committing Self-Murder out of "shame" differs from committing Abortion out of "shame".

Because I don't see it. I really don't.

Best, OP

There is also plenty of Bible Doctrine which points out that such an issue which involves a direct decision between any person and God's authority may be best left between the person and God.

He's a jealous God, so one needs to be careful about falling into a sinful arrogant state associated with 'do-gooderism' when faced with an acquaintence contemplating the issue.

The entire state of considering suicide is in and of itself a contemplation of sin. Rationalizing is one the things any sinful person will rush towards.

The person blinded by darkness will seek to encourage others to join in their sin. In one sense, even the discussion is a self-admission by the suicidal contemplator that they have NOT confessed their sins in faith to Him for forgiveness, but instead are remaining arrogant in believing they can handle sin better than Christ's Perfect Sacrifice on the Cross.

While the sinner remains in that state, God doesn't return to Him. The sinner will need to return to God on His terms, that is , through faith in Christ, before he can metabolize Scripture properly and make proper judgments on the topic.

In some sense, attempting to witness too greatly to the suicidal person based upon self attempts to be good, is exactly opposite of what will truthfully deliver the suicidal person from evil.

Even worse is a case of do-gooderism where another person independent of God's will convinces the suicidal person that he should live for any other reason independent of God's will. And this is just the frame of mind which the suicidal person is in anyways, so it's the blind leading the blind at that point.

The first step is for the suicial person to return to God on His terms not by independent means.

There is also plenty of Bible Doctrine which points out that such an issue which involves a direct decision between any person and God's authority may be best left between the person and God.

Well, any moral decision is a "decision between one person and God's authority". That doesn't mean that God's Law (for example, the Sixth Commandment, Murder is Bad) doesn't apply. I could be a fornicator, a drug user, and a drunk -- and God's Law is still God's Law, even if I happen to be the one pointing it out. The Sixth Commandment still applies: Murder is Bad. Including Self-Murder.

It may be a "decision between one person and God's authority", but it's still a decision whether or not to violate the Sixth Commandment -- which is always wrong.

He's a jealous God, so one needs to be careful about falling into a sinful arrogant state associated with 'do-gooderism' when faced with an acquaintence contemplating the issue.

Sadly, Arrogance is certainly my own particular specialty... but pointing out the Sixth Commandment really isn't "Do-Gooderism". I could be a fornicator, a drug user, and a drunk -- and God's Law is still God's Law, even if I happen to be the one pointing it out. The Sixth Commandment still applies: Murder is Bad. Including Self-Murder.

The entire state of considering suicide is in and of itself a contemplation of sin. Rationalizing is one the things any sinful person will rush towards.

True.

The person blinded by darkness will seek to encourage others to join in their sin. In one sense, even the discussion is a self-admission by the suicidal contemplator that they have NOT confessed their sins in faith to Him for forgiveness, but instead are remaining arrogant in believing they can handle sin better than Christ's Perfect Sacrifice on the Cross.

Doubly True. (and sadly true)

While the sinner remains in that state, God doesn't return to Him. The sinner will need to return to God on His terms, that is , through faith in Christ, before he can metabolize Scripture properly and make proper judgments on the topic.

Well... with all due respect, God does as He pleases. He's not above a "Road to Damascus" display of outright, shocking, and irresistible Divine Enlightenment towards any man when He cares to.

He does exactly as he pleases, exactly when He cares to, and He "turns the hearts of Men like the rivers of water in His hands" whenever He sees fit. (Proverbs 21:1)

We respond to Him as is our Responsibility, but he re-designs, re-engineers, and re-energizes the entire Heart and Mind of any individual Man whenever He sees fit.

Potter. Clay.

In some sense, attempting to witness too greatly to the suicidal person based upon self attempts to be good, is exactly opposite of what will truthfully deliver the suicidal person from evil.

In this respect, I disagree.

God's Law is God's Law.

Self-Murder (a violation of the Sixth Commandment) is a Violation of God's Law.

It can never possibly be wrong to simply and forthrightly declare the Moral Responsibilities of God's Law.

Even worse is a case of do-gooderism where another person independent of God's will convinces the suicidal person that he should live for any other reason independent of God's will. And this is just the frame of mind which the suicidal person is in anyways, so it's the blind leading the blind at that point.

Well, it may be wrong to convince a person to live independent of God's Will, but God's Law is God's Law.

Self-Murder (a violation of the Sixth Commandment) is a Violation of God's Law.

It can never possibly be wrong to simply and forthrightly declare the Moral Responsibilities of God's Law.

The first step is for the suicial person to return to God on His terms not by independent means.

Now THAT I wholeheartedly agree with.

We live according to God's Law, not according to any self-willed independent conception of our Own whatsoever.

But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Thank you so much for the info/words you've posted, "Between the Lines"! Although I don't agree with every sentence, I agree with much of it, and I especially appreciate the tone, and compassion in which it was written.

I am a coservative, born again Christian, but sheesh I went to church Sunday morning so discoureged and depressed by the tone of some Christians on this thread. With counsel like that who needs unbelievers!

It just came across as plain mean!

Thanks again for the advice and helplines, and most of all for the wisdom" and compassion which was not so evident on spme of the other threads.

I deeply apologize if anything I said came across as mean or crass. It was not my intention If I have done so!

Oh, LOL! I wasn't talking about you, japedo! I thought you were very helpful and compassionate :0)

I've been reading the posts about tame's question on suicide. Thank you two for the posts you have sent they have been encouraging and true. God is not suprised about our feelings or our sins. I am a born again christian and I have been suprised,disaappointed in some of the responses some of these guys have been giving, especially the christians. Maybe they have been too busy debating for debate sake that they forget about Christ's compassion and grace. All tame wanted is some advice or suggestions about how he could help his friend and it seems as though some of these guys were intentionally trying to "spar" in debate instead of actually giving information. Their remarks were down right mean at times, others even non-christians seemed to have more compassion and actual information or advice or steps for tame to use in assisting his friend. I'm sure "even these guys" have had their own circumstances where yes they knew the theological reasoning,and could logically explain every detail, but yet had a difficult time understanding it on an personal or emotional level. What saddens me is that some of the christians have been some of the most rude of all

Ditto, tiffany. You're exactly correct!

Their remarks were down right mean at times....What saddens me is that some of the christians have been some of the most rude of all.

I didn't sense that at all. As a matter of fact, I have been heartened by the unanimity of all the different Christian denominations. Tame, check it out: Mormons, Presbyterians, Evangelicals, and Catholics, and certainly others have answered your question unequivocally. You have been provided with scriptural prohibitions, practical prohibitions, and thanks to Betweenthelines, psychological insights and resources worth examining. Yes....yes....yes....it is always wrong to commit suicide.

That some posters are blunter than others, that some would point out the sinful nature of the desire for death, are articulating their thoughts with the utmost of charity. They are telling you it is wrong to commit suicide under any circumstances.

Rnmomof7 is wonderful in pointing out how unworthy any of us are in attaining our goal. OP is equally wonderful, as is ThomasMore in exposing the nature of such a desire. Hats off to everyone who responded to Tame's question. It has been answered, unanimously, thouroughly, and yes, sensitively.

and yes, sensitively.

Sorry, that's just flat wrong in some cases. Sure some were very helpful, but others were just brash and flat out hateful. When someone says something like "join the f*cking club", you can't convince me that comes close to Christian sensitivity (tough love my A**).

BTW, I very much appreciated RNmomof7's comments. She offered sincere, loving words.

Sure some were very helpful, but others were just brash and flat out hateful.

So, dust off your sandals and move on. Don't you agree that your question was answered? Don't you feel that you have a wide consensus of opinion that negates your "friend's" interpretation of Coronthians? Had I asked your question and received the amount of diverse opinions you did I would feel extraordinarily confident about what my opinion would be and what course of action I would persue. Don't you feel better? Don't you feel more confident in what advice you should give?

You're missing tame's point. We all agree with many of the theological truths expressed here. I agree that suicide is wrong. I am a Christian, and tame is as well. We also agree that there has been a lot of positive support. But, there are a few appaling responses on this thread. Consider some of these "Christian" quotes from some of the posts above:

...join the f*cking crowd, Kemosabe!"
"You're almost pissing ingratitude upon his sacrifice."

These words were joined by someone else with the following "amen" type clause:

"Truth and a two-by-four."

Oh, and let's not forget the following Christian comment:

"He needs to get off his narcissistic soapbox instead of rationalizing irresponsible behavior."

I mean, Come on! The guy is sick! I am a memmer of a very conservative Baptist church, and one thing we never do is water down the truth. But anyone on our staff who didn't have more wisdom and common sense in dealing with such a tragic and sensitive situation would have to be terminated.

So, dust off your sandals and move on.

No need to. It's a thread I started, and I should not have to dust off my sandas with my fellow Christians. I think you'er not really understanding what I posted. There were some pretty harsh words that were ill-timed and out of place. Don't you agree that your question was answered? Don't you feel that you have a wide consensus of opinion that negates your "friend's" interpretation of Coronthians?

I guess anyone who seeks wise counsel already knows many answers, but wise counsel is not sought for merely clinical Q&A, but for support, etc., as well. Also, there is a difficulty in not being able to get too specific.

I do ave to say that the last thing I would expect from a Christian (especially if he's had any experience in pastoral care) is "join the F*cking crowd, Kemosabe"

But, then again I don't go to an Orthodox Presbyterian Church, so I'm not sure what they've been teaching in that respect.

I think you'er not really understanding what I posted. There were some pretty harsh words that were ill-timed and out of place.

I understand what you posted. I understand what OP posted. It's a very serious issue. I would not have chosen the words he did, but nothing he wrote was false. That he employed language you might find objectionable is indeed objectionable, but the point of his post is spot on. I am reminded of Kurt Vonnegut's self -prohibition against profanity, because it detracted from the message. Your complaints support Vonnegut's maxim.

However, in this instance OP is absolutely correct in condemning Joey's desire. You are avoiding the forest and seeing only the trees. That OP uses provacative language is only to grab your attention, and drive his point home. Not to offend necessarily, but inform.