Posted on 06/16/2003 8:41:08 PM PDT by Salvation
Sorry, this is a really dumb flippant answer you've given. The baptised have original sin remitted, but not the punishments of original sin. Mary was conceived without it, and so was not under its punishments either. You cannot remit what was never there.
The same logic in your answer would also claim we'd have to believe the baptised will never die. Please.
Salvific power is definately a divine attribute.
If Mary had said no, Christ would not have come. Her "fiat" was the predicate to Christ's Incarnation. God forces the hand of no man (or woman). That being said, her 'fiat' made her the instrument of salvation, because her agreement was necessary for the incarnation to occur. Christ came to save us by being born of Mary.
Two things can go through windows. Light waves, and solid objects. The first passes through without affecting the window, the second shatters it.
For Christ to be born in the normal method would have impacted Mary's virginity, which Isaiah assures us is not the case - a Virgin both conceived and bore Christ. So he passed through and out of her womb without physical impairment to her. That he could do this is seen by his passing through the solid door in the upper room after the resurrection.
Exemption from the punishments of Original Sin strongly implies exemption from Original Sin itself. Even St. John the Baptist and Jeremiah, both of whom the Bible assures us were filled with the Holy Ghost from their mother's wombs, were under Original Sin and its punishments.
Certainly God can do anything. But there is no reason to beleive he would exempt Mary from the punishments of Original Sin, but not redeem her from Original Sin at the same time.
In any case, the primary proof of Mary's sinlessness is Genesis 3.16, "enmity between you and the woman". One who is under Original Sin cannot be at enmity with the Devil.
This makes me laugh. Which Early Christians were heavily influenced by paganism? Was it the ones who busied themselves tearing down Pagan shinres in accordance with Canon Law? Maybe the ones who descreated pagan Holy places and erected Churches on top of them? Such feverish imaginatiosn in you Protestants.
Or, was she important to Paul's Christian life?
Search Acts and all of the epistles to see how often and passionately she was mentioned by the early church.
Here is the level of passion about Mary in the early church:
Acts 1:14 These (the Apostles) all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
Any other mentions of her in all of the instructions about the church and church history and church function found in the epistles???
We don't believe this. The punishment of original sin is the deprivation of the beatific vision. The punishment of actual sin is the torments of everlasting hell.
No amount of redemption can remove one from the effects of Original Sin. And God cannot coezist with sin. So it is difficult to understand how God could dwell within the womb of a sinner.
The punishment of original sin is the deprivation of the beatific vision.
Can you give me a reference from the Bible for this?
No amount of redemption can remove one from the effects of Original Sin.
Reference
And God cannot coezist with sin.
This one is SOOOOOOO unscriptural!!!
So it is difficult to understand how God could dwell within the womb of a sinner.
1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
You would do well to do less imagining and less listening to people who make things up and more reading of the Bible.
Pagans lifted up their hands in prayers. Therefore, by your reasoning, it is forbidden to Christians. Pagans worshipped in buildings and in fields. Therefore, worship in buildings or fields is forbidden to Christians. Pagans used immersion in water in their cermonies, therefore, Baptism is nothing but rank paganism.
Did it ever occur to you that some things pagans did were remaining shadows of the true religion they once possessed? That perhaps the Church reclaimed a common heritage God had given all mankind in Adam and Noah? That many customs you attribute to the Pagans were also found among the Jews? Obviously not.
To this day the months of the Christian calendar refer to Roman gods, or Caesars, or simply Roman numbering, and the days of the week remains the names of Germanic gods (only Saturn’s Day, or Saturday, remains of the Roman model).
You know NOTHING of the Church Calendar. The days in the Roman Missal and Breviary are as follows:
1) Dies Dominica - Day of the Lord - Sunday
2) Feria II - Day 2 - Monday
3) Feria III - Day 3 - Tuesday
4) Feria IV - Day 4 - Wednesday
5) Feria V - Day 5 - Thursday
6) Feria VI - Day 6 - Friday
7) Sabbato - Sabbath - Saturday
Notice, no names of Pagan gods.
The common names in English are not the names in the books of the Church. Similarly, the Church calls Easter in her official Latin tongue "Parsceve" - Passover.
There is no problem with the Church officially defining a doctrine which is not explicitly in Scripture, so long as it is not in contradiction to Scripture.
The Catholic Church was commissioned by Christ to teach all nations and to teach them infallibly—guided, as he promised, by the Holy Spirit until the end of the world (John 14:26, 16:13). The mere fact that the Church teaches that something is definitely true is a guarantee that it is true (cf. Matt. 28:18-20, Luke 10:16, 1 Tim. 3:15).
Like all other descendants of Adam, she was subject to the necessity of contracting original sin. But by a special intervention of God, undertaken at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. She was therefore redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way—by anticipation.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that she was "redeemed in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son" (CCC 492). She has more reason to call God her Savior than we do, because he saved her in an even more glorious manner!
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