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The FReeper Foxhole Studies Army Mortuary Affairs History - November 7th, 2003
Army Quartermaster ^

Posted on 11/07/2003 3:33:16 AM PST by snippy_about_it



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.



...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

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With All Due Honors:



A History of the Quartermaster Mortuary Affairs Mission

"Show me the manner in which a nation or a community cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical exactness the tender sympathies of its people, their respect for the laws of the land and their loyalty to high ideals." – Gladstone.


Early Beginnings

As far back as the early 1800s, Quartermaster officers assigned to frontier outposts constructed cemetery plots, buried the dead in marked graves, and kept a fairly uniform record of burial. Though commendable, these efforts hardly afforded the practical experience needed to handle combat fatalities resulting from a large-scale conflict. No formal policy addressed that possibility either.

The Mexican War (1846-47) provided the first real test of the Army’s ability to care for its war dead, but with results that were far from satisfactory. In one instance, General Zachary Taylor saw to it that the dead were properly collected and buried on the battlefield following his celebrated victory at Buena Vista. Unfortunately, he neglected to mark the site of the burial on the map accompanying his official report. Years later, when the US government sought to erect a monument to the fallen heroes, no burial site could be found. A similar experience marked the campaign of General Winfield Scott, whose troops landed at Vera Cruz and marched overland to Mexico City. Of the hundreds who died and were buried along the way, only a fraction were located afterwards and none ever identified.


At the Mexico City National Cemetery there are seven hundred and fifty American soldiers buried that were killed during the Mexican War. Their remains were gathered in 1851, four years after the war, and buried in a common grave at this cemetery. They were not identified so they are classified as Unknown Soldiers. In addition there are eight veterans of the Mexican War buried at this cemetery.


The Civil War

The actual foundation of today’s Mortuary Affairs mission is more readily traced to the outbreak of the American Civil War. That tragic conflict elicited more sacrifice and accounted for more battle deaths than all of our other major wars combined. At the same time, public sensibilities towards the treatment of dead soldiers appeared to be changing, possibly in response to the sight of so many citizen-soldiers donning the blue or gray. Still, this heightened concern for the war dead did not automatically translate into an improved battlefield scenario. Almost invariably, the dead were buried by details from the line, right at, or very near the scene of the battle. When the armies moved on, those burial grounds with their temporary markers were left to deteriorate, leaving little hope of locating or identifying the grave of any given decedent.

Another factor contributed to the problem of identifying and locating individual graves. Burial "squads" were frequently made up of prisoners of war (POWs), or other less than willing hands. Often illiterate or careless, the results of their actions were fairly predictable: the true identity of many of the dead was lost to error. During the action at the Wilderness and Spotsylvania Courthouse, approximately 1,500 men died, and only a fourth of those were ever identified. (Roughly 58 percent of all those who died during the Civil War were positively identified.) The countless notices appearing in the newspapers of the time, asking for information about those missing in action, bore witness to this legacy of uncertainty.

Other examples of concern over the Army’s failure to provide adequate graves registration, as well as of the negative effect this lack of support had on the troops, abounded. When the Union Army of the Potomac crossed the Rapidan River and entered Virginia on 4 May 1864, those soldiers were horrified to discover the bleached bones of comrades who had fallen the year before lying exposed on the ground.

At this point many of the troops searched through the remains hoping to discover clues that would designate the remains as those of departed friends. They looked for identifying marks on clothing and equipment, evidence of fatal wounds, and peculiarities of tooth structure as part of their search. (It is interesting to note that these methods of establishing identification would become part of standard operating procedure for 20th Century mortuary affairs personnel.)

Finally, before moving into the Wilderness, those troops took time to bury the exposed remains. The fear of being listed among the "unknowns" weighed upon the combat troops. Even though the War Department did not require or issue any sort of identifying tag, the rank and file often took steps to ensure that their identity would be known should they be killed on the battlefield. Identifying markers carved on wood were carried by many soldiers, as were medallions bearing their names and other information. Before attacking the entrenched Confederates at Mine Run during the winter of 1863, the men of the Union Fifth Corps wrote their names on small scraps of paper and pinned them to their uniforms.


Still, the military hierarchy of the day apparently failed to realize not only the importance of some type of permanent identification for combat soldiers, but also the obvious need for specially trained units and personnel who could properly care for the war dead. On only one occasion, after the Battle of Fort Stevens outside of Washington, DC, in the summer of 1864, did a group resembling a modern day Mortuary Affairs unit come into play.

CPT James M. Moore, newly appointed head of the Quartermaster Cemeterial Division, led a group of his personnel on to the battlefield after the fighting had ended. There they began a systematic search and recovery of remains and personal effects, eventually managing to identify all the remains. Their achievement of a perfect score was not to be matched within the US Army for many decades. Unfortunately, that perfect score still did not lead to the use of trained mortuary personnel on a routine basis. During the course of the war, the Quartermaster Corps was clearly established as the responsible agent for caring for the Army’s dead. After the war, between 1866 and 1870, the Cemeterial Division disinterred the remains of nearly 300,000 war dead and laid them to rest in 73 newly created national cemeteries.

Spanish-American War

Conspicuous advances in the theory and practice of Army graves registration were not to take place until the turn of the century, during the Spanish-American War. As a result of experiences in Cuba, it was learned that successful identification of remains depended more than anything on shortening the time span between death, original burial, and registration of graves. Later, Chaplain Charles C. Pierce, who established the Quartermaster Office of Identification in the Philippines, outlined some of the principles and techniques needed to place care of war dead on a more scientific basis. He recommended inclusion of an "identity disc" in the combat field kit, and the establishment of central collection points or agencies where all pertinent mortuary records could be gathered, filed, checked, traced and corrected. Positive identification, he reasoned, should admit little doubt and no discrepancies.

The Quartermaster Department was reorganized in 1912 and became the Quartermaster Corps, a fully militarized branch of the service, much as we know it today. Specialized troops took over most of the functions previously performed by civilians or detachments from the line. Thus, on the eve of the United States entry into World War I, the way was cleared for the establishment of trained Quartermaster units which would care for the dead.

New regulations adopted in 1913 affirmed the Army’s now strong commitment toward positive identification and proper burial of the dead. New techniques had made their way into procedure, particularly in regard to identification. Detailed maps and sketches showing exact locations of all temporary grave sites were to be filed at the time of initial burial. This would ease the process of disinterment at a later date. By 1917 the War Department moved a step further, amending Army Regulations so that all combat soldiers would be required to wear aluminum "dog tags" in the field.


World War I How a grave is marked by the Graves Registration Service, Q.M.C.cross has both the identity tag and plate prepared by the Service. Mareuil-en-Dole, 77th Division 12 September 1918

World War I

While readying the American Expeditionary Force for its trip to Europe during World War I, General John J. "Blackjack" Pershing requested the establishment of a Graves Registration Service assigned to the Western Front. Major Charles C. Pierce, who had headed up the Office of Identification in Manila two decades earlier and since retired, was recalled to active service on behalf of the Quartermaster Corps. He began training graves registration (GRREG) troops and units at the Philadelphia Quartermaster Depot in the summer of 1917. By October his headquarters had moved to Tours, France. From this location, 19 Quartermaster GRREG companies were dispatched to every section of the combat zone during the next year and a half.

While the headquarters staff of the Graves Registration Service tended to the consolidation and preservation of mortuary records and the maintenance of semi-permanent cemeteries at the rear of the battlefield, the GRREG companies themselves offered close support to the line. The dedication and esprit of member personnel was often noteworthy to the point of extremes. No risk appeared too dangerous or effort too great if it promised identification of a "buddy’s" remains. General Pershing wrote of one particular unit’s activities in the spring of 1918:

"(They) began their work under heavy shell of fire and gas, and, although troops were in dugouts, these men immediately went to the cemetery and in order to preserve records and locations, repaired and erected new crosses as fast as old ones were blown down. They also completed the extension to the cemetery, this work occupying a period of one and a half hours, during which time shells were falling continuously and they were subjected to mustard gas. They gathered many bodies which had been first in the hands of the Germans, and were later retaken by American counterattacks. Identification was especially difficult, all papers and tags having been removed, and most of the bodies being in a terrible condition and beyond recognition."



A burial party of the 42nd Division, these parties were kept busy for days digging graves for the dead that littered the fields and woods after the advance beyond Chateau-Thierry. Beuvardes, France, 30 July 1918

During the Great War, as it was called, many relatives of soldiers opted to have their kin remain in the country where they had fallen. Teddy Roosevelt added impetus to this movement by requesting that his own son, LT Quentin Roosevelt, be buried near the ground where he was killed. His expression – "Where the tree falls, let it lie" – echoed the sentiments of many. In all, eight permanent cemeteries were established in Europe by war’s end (six in France, and one each in Belgium and England) wherein approximately 30,000 veterans were laid to rest. Another 47,000 bodies were returned to the United States. During World War I, the Quartermaster Graves Registration Service reduced the percentage of unknowns to less than 3 bodies for every 100 recovered. While organizational and operational refinements helped reduce the time span between original burial and final disposition of remains, a new and more scientific approach aided in the process of identification. World War I saw the coming of age of Army graves registration.

World War II

During World War II the task of graves registration proved far greater. More than 250,000 Americans died and were buried in temporary cemeteries around the world. On the European continent alone, fighting had scattered dead US forces over 1 1/2 million square miles of territory, making the recovery process more difficult. Further, new weapons (including aerial bombardment and massive use of artillery) often rendered those killed in action unrecognizable.


Personal Effects being checked at a collection point in the European Theater, Undated U.S. Army Photo


The standard Graves Registration Company in World War II consisted of 260 men and 5 officers. It was intended to support three divisions, one platoon per division. Each platoon was divided into two sections – a collecting squad and an evacuation squad. GRREG companies collected, evacuated, identified and supervised the burial of the dead. These field units also collected and disposed of personal effects and, subject to the approval of higher headquarters, selected sites for temporary cemeteries. As in World War I, work often had to be done under extremely hazardous conditions. The famed war correspondent, Ernie Pyle, reported on GRREG personnel seeking refuge in the freshly-dug graves during the heaviest fighting at Anzio.


World War II Identification, Undated U.S. Army Photo

Another example of heroic service can be found in the record of a Quartermaster Graves Registration Company that scrambled ashore on D-Day with the First Army. There they gathered bodies from the beaches, in the water and inland, actually cutting many from wrecked landing craft submerged in the shallow water. By the end of D+2, one platoon alone had buried 457 American dead. By working day and night, the three platoons had been able to clear the beaches of all remains.


Army Chaplain Francis L. Sampson of Sioux Falls, S.D., gives absolution to American paratroopers killed in action, in Saint Marie Dumont, France, U.S. Army Photo, 7 June 1944 (Note that bodies are wrapped in parachutes)

Korea and Vietnam

Since graves registration units have been traditionally governed by regulations that denote them as a wartime service, most were quickly disbanded in the months following V-J (Victory over Japan) Day. Within a few years the Quartermaster Graves Registration Service overseas was virtually eliminated. This created an enormous problem when suddenly and unexpectedly, the US Army found itself locked in conflict with communist aggressors on the Korean peninsula in June 1950. At that time only one small organization – the l08th Quartermaster Graves Registration Platoon, comprised of 30 men stationed in Yokohama, Japan – was available for rapid deployment during the emergency buildup.


Cpl. William K. Davidson of Philadelphia, Pa., 114th Graves Registration Co., Quartermaster Corps, fills out a Form 52B, giving information regarding a deceased American soldier at the UN Cemetery at Taegu, Korea. At right are (l-r) marker (cross), unidentified soldier marker (triangular) and small bottle containing Form 1042 which is buried with the soldier, U.S. Army Photograph, 23 January 1951


To compound the difficulty, only a handful of these men had combat experience. (The only other active GRREG unit in the entire Army establishment was the 565th Quartermaster Graves Registration Company at Fort Bragg, NC.) Five men from the 108th Platoon were attached to each of the three divisions initially chosen for combat – the 24th, 25th, and 1st Cavalry – and with these 15 men went the few graves registration supplies that could be rounded up. The fluid tactical situation, particularly during the first six months of fighting, aggravated by manpower and supply shortages, rendered GRREG support extremely difficult.

Because circumstances prevented establishing a large, centrally located Army cemetery, division-level cemeteries had to be used instead. Eleven separate cemeteries were opened in the Eighth Army area during the first two months of fighting. In the wake of the renewed communist offensive in the fall of 1950, Allied units were forced to quickly close down these cemeteries and concentrate on evacuating the dead - to the relative security of rear areas, then to Japan for processing and eventual shipment to the continental United States (CONUS). By the end of January 1951, nearly 5,000 bodies had been removed from temporary cemeteries in Korea to the newly formed central identification unit (CIU) in Kokura, Japan. This was the first time in US history that a mass evacuation of combat dead took place while hostilities were still in progress.


Cpl. Marlin R. Shive of York, Pa. (right), blows taps as Chaplain (DAC) John F. Coffey of Detroit, Mich., a Maryknoll Father of Headquarters, 2nd Infantry Division, prays over a grave at the Miryang United Nations Cemetery, Miryang, Korea, U.S. Army Photograph, 11 January 1951


By the time battle lines stabilized in mid-1951 and additional GRREG units arrived in Korea, operating procedures had standardized. A 72-acre United Nations Military Cemetery was opened at Tanggok, as well as the Eighth Army’s Central Identification Laboratory. During the final two years of the war, refrigerated railroad cars were used to ship remains from forward collecting points to Tanggok. A full-scale search and recovery effort was instituted to reduce the number of personnel listed as missing in action. As armistice talks got underway, a pattern evolved wherein the dead were recovered and shipped back to the US within a period of 30 days. It is estimated that more than 97 percent of the recovered American dead were identified.


A bugler sounded taps for 11 unknown Korean war dead at the National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific in Hawaii in May 1956.

The Vietnam War, America’s longest large-scale conflict abroad, saw more improvements in the Army’s ability to care for its dead. The nature of that war - especially the use of high-mobility, small unit tactics - lessened the numbers of unaccounted-for dead. More important, better methods of communications and transportation from the battlefield (particularly the use of helicopters) allowed for the speedy recovery of remains from the battlefield, often within minutes.


Camp Evans, Vietnam A bugler on a hill overlooking the A Shau Valley plays taps at a memorial service for the fallen soldiers of the 2nd Bn, 319th Arty., 101st Airborne Division, 1969 (Information Office, 101st Abn Div SP4 Larry Peterson)

Combat units themselves were responsible for initial, on-the-spot recovery in most instances. From that point, remains were brought to two fixed and well-equipped mortuaries in-country, located at Da Nang in the far north and in Tan Son Nhut, just outside of Saigon. There, positive identification was made. New laboratory procedures supplemented traditional identification methodology such as dental and fingerprint comparison.

Ultimately, the remains of 96 percent of those who had fallen were recovered, as compared to a 78 percent recovery rate for both World War II and Korea. The four percent not accounted for translates to about 2,300 soldiers. Still, on average, only 7 days elapsed from the time of death to receipt of remains by the next of kin. At the end of the war, only 28 of the bodies of American soldiers recovered remained unidentified. Over time, all but one of those were positively identified. On Memorial Day 1984, that one soldier was interred in the Tomb of Unknowns in Arlington National Cemetery.

Note: DNA testing subsequently proved that the remains buried in the Tomb of the Unknowns were those of US Air Force First Lieutenant Michael Joseph Blassie. Lieutenant Blassie’s remains were returned to his family, and he was buried in his hometown of St. Louis, MO, on 11 July1998.

A Proud Heritage

The outstanding record of Mortuary Affairs units in caring for our dead during more recent conflicts and peacetime disasters is a far cry from that of 150 years ago. Beginning with a change of sensibilities, with the consciousness that soldiers and their families did not want the fate or the identity of those who fell in battle to be left unknown, there has been a continual effort to improve the techniques, equipment, doctrine and organizations designated to care for the Army’s dead. The experiences of the Mexican War, where virtually none of the dead were ever identified or their graves located and marked, are almost unimaginable today. A perfect to near perfect record of recovery, identification and disposition of remains has become the standard, to be carried out with all due honors.

 

Today the Search Continues ...

CILHI Team in Tibet reviewing map

CILHI Team in Tibet at crash site

CILHI Team in Tibet on mountain side at crash site

A 14-man search and recovery team from the US Army Central Identification Laboratory (CILHI), Hawaii recently trekked through the harsh Tibetan Himalayas to reach a World War II crash site - and returned with the remains of four American service members. Once again affirming the Army’s solemn commitment to visit the "end of the world," if need be, to retrieve and positively identify all of our nation’s war dead.







Mission and History The Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command (JPAC), located on the island of Oahu in Hawaii, was activated on Oct. 1, 2003. JPAC’s mission is to achieve the fullest possible accounting of all Americans missing as a result of our nation’s previous conflicts. Our highest priority is the return of any living Americans that remain prisoners of war.


JPAC was created from the merger of the 30 year old U.S. Army Central Identification Laboratory, Hawaii, and the 11 year old Joint Task Force - Full Accounting. This 425-person organization, commanded by a flag officer, is committed and dedicated to bringing home the nation’s service members and civilians who made the ultimate sacrifice.


JPAC recognizes that the efforts and involvement of our POW/MIA families contribute significantly to our success. JPAC owes a great deal of gratitude to the families and veterans who support our mission.


We are a jointly manned unit with handpicked Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines with specialized skills and Department of the Navy civilians who make up about 25 percent of the organization.


The laboratory portion of JPAC, referred to as the Central Identification Laboratory (CIL), is the largest forensic anthropology laboratory in the world.


Our mission is daunting, with approximately 78,000 Americans missing from World War II (of those, an estimated 35,000 are deemed recoverable, with the others lost at sea or entombed in sunken vessels), 8,100 missing from the Korean War, 1,800 missing from the Vietnam War, 120 missing from the Cold War, and one serviceman missing from the Gulf War.

To accomplish its mission, JPAC is organized to support five main areas: analysis, negotiations, investigations, recovery and identification.






FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links




TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: 54thquartermaster; 92m; cilhi; freeperfoxhole; michaeldobbs; mortuaryaffairs; samsdayoff; veterans
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
Thanks for the tribute to soldiers who hardly get any notice, much less credit.

I like the mission of no more unknowns. With DNA technology, that's a real possibility.

41 posted on 11/07/2003 9:12:49 AM PST by colorado tanker ("There are but two parties now, Traitors and Patriots")
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To: colorado tanker
I like the mission of no more unknowns

SO do I , I can't even begin to imagime the anguish of families going on for years "not knowing" for sure.

42 posted on 11/07/2003 9:25:45 AM PST by SAMWolf (A foot is a device for finding furniture in the dark.)
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To: colorado tanker
Your welcome ct. We certainly have come a long way.

My plan is to try to highlight some of the jobs our men and women do for us in the service that are not mentioned very often in some upcoming threads. Glad you liked it.
43 posted on 11/07/2003 9:56:00 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Great idea, Snippy. For example, from the reports I'm seeing our civil affairs troops are doing a crackerjack job of rebuilding Iraq, but most people don't even know we've got that type of soldier.
44 posted on 11/07/2003 10:01:20 AM PST by colorado tanker ("There are but two parties now, Traitors and Patriots")
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To: Darksheare
Good afternoon Darksheare.

I've been out watching our Veterans Day Parade during my lunch hour. We've had civil war canons fired, a C35 refueling plane flyover (twice), marching bands and 153 different units are represented today.

Lunch is over but I'm watching from the 30th floor window and it's still going on. Now the Jeeps and a couple Deuce and a half trucks rolling through. Big turn out for us this year.

It is good to see so many young and old alike out in the cold honoring our veterans.
45 posted on 11/07/2003 10:02:18 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: w_over_w
Good afternoon w/w.
46 posted on 11/07/2003 10:03:00 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: colorado tanker
Thanks for the idea on civil affairs folks. I'll take all the suggestions I can get because I'm sure there are some I'm clueless about too.
47 posted on 11/07/2003 10:05:54 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: All
Marine Corps Mortuary Affairs
Sep 10 2003

After we lose servicemembers in a war, many do not think about who gets them back home. For those Marines who died during Operation Iraqi Freedom, there is a small, virtually-unknown company of reservists who answered the call.

Mortuary Affairs (MA) Company, Combat Service Support Group-11, has been tasked with the sometimes-difficult job of recovering, processing and shipping their fallen brothers and sisters back to the United States quickly.

"We make sure everyone gets home, regardless," said Staff Sgt. Ralph Patterson, Acting Company Gunnery Sergeant, MA Company. "We honor them by getting them home. We go by the Marine Corps philosophy 'We take care of our own'."

The Marine Corps did not have a dedicated mortuary affairs unit before Operation Iraqi Freedom, according to Patterson. The Marine Corps relied on an Army unit and about ten Marines that trained others during the first Gulf War, but there was not an entire unit dedicated to bringing back fallen Marines.

Three reserve units each dedicated about eighty Marines and sent them to the Mortuary Affairs Army school in January, as the Armed Forces was preparing to deploy. These trained Marines became part of the first Mortuary Affairs Company to serve in combat for the Marine Corps.

"I am really glad the Marine Corps is doing this now," said Sgt. Jeremy Davis, MA Platoon Sergeant, a 24-year-old native of Denver, Colo., "it's not a glorious job, but it needs to be done, and it needs to be done by fellow Marines."

The Marines sometimes had to sift through ashes and vehicle remains for days to find personal identification, such as dog tags or nametapes. They did not stop until they knew they have identified all the missing servicemembers in an area. Sometimes the only thing they found was a dog tag to identify someone.

"Dog tags always seem to make it. I don't know what they're made of but they seem to survive through anything," said Patterson. "One of our Marines was looking through the wreckage of the amtrack and found a melted glob of metal that was a rifle. There was a chain hanging out of that metal glob and when we cut it open there was a dog tag inside."

"If it is possible to have someone identified, you want to," said Lance Cpl. William Smith, a 25-year-old mortuary affairs specialist from Marietta Ga. "We don't want to turn a KIA to an MIA."

Patterson said he spent two days in a pile of debris that used to be the driver's area of an amphibious assault vehicle that was hit by a missile. He almost quit, but something inside told him to keep looking. A few hours later, he found the dog tag of the last Marine left to be identified from the vehicle. He unexpectedly saw that name again later.

"There was a story in the Marine Corps Times about a woman who was left at home caring for her children while her husband was fighting in Iraq," said Patterson. "It went into a lot of depth about the family. At the end of the story it said, 'In memory of (the Marine's name)'. That is one of the many parts of the job that make it worthwhile."

The Marines of the mortuary affairs company follow strict rules and military traditions when handling the bodies of fallen servicemembers.

"We go by the old traditions of handling bodies of a fallen brother," said Smith. "You don't stand over the remains. You don't walk over the remains. That's for friend or enemy.

"We give the dead Iraqi soldier the same respect we would give our own Marine. They are warriors, just like us."

The mortuary affairs Marines take their job seriously because they aren't doing this for themselves; they are doing it for fallen comrades, their friends and families.

"Our CO told us before he left that you can judge a civilization by how they treat their children, their elderly and their dead," Smith said. "The last part is our job."



~ Marine Corps News Service
48 posted on 11/07/2003 11:26:02 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Darksheare
Morning Darksheare. I 'm just glad that there are people who are willing to do that work
49 posted on 11/07/2003 11:37:10 AM PST by SAMWolf (A foot is a device for finding furniture in the dark.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good find Snippy. Relates current news to the thread topic.
50 posted on 11/07/2003 11:38:07 AM PST by SAMWolf (A foot is a device for finding furniture in the dark.)
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it
So am I.
I just know that I would not be able to do that myself.
51 posted on 11/07/2003 11:44:25 AM PST by Darksheare (DemUn, a good excuse to throw Holy Water on liberals.)
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To: SAMWolf
Thank you. As you know that's not always easy to do. I got lucky today. ;)
52 posted on 11/07/2003 11:57:40 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: All


Marines from Headquarters and Service Battalion, Kaneohe Bay Hawaii, escort the remains of Corporal Mason Yarbrough, killed more than 58 years ago on Makin Island. Corporal Yarbrough`s remains, recovered in 1999, will travel back home with Mr. Leroy C. Holmes, (civilian), his nephew, after the Honor Guard ceremony.

53 posted on 11/07/2003 2:21:12 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; bentfeather; Darksheare; Johnny Gage; Light Speed; Samwise; ...
Good evening all at the Foxhole!!

Hello service men and women, past and present.
THANK YOU for serving the USA!


54 posted on 11/07/2003 4:39:54 PM PST by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: radu
Good evening radu, you're in early.
55 posted on 11/07/2003 4:47:45 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Hi snippy!

Took advantage of the time supper's cooking to sit down for a sec. Gotta squeeze in 'puter time whenever I can these days. LOL!!
56 posted on 11/07/2003 4:50:37 PM PST by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: radu
Evening radu!
Been wandering under the moon for a bit.
57 posted on 11/07/2003 4:51:20 PM PST by Darksheare (DemUn, "Don't attribute to intelligence what is due mainly to incompitence")
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To: Darksheare
Hi Darksheare!

POO! We can't even see the moon. Cloudy with drizzle tonight.

That's ok....I can still feel it. OOOOOW-WOOOOOOO!!!!
hehehe

Gotta check out. Supper's almost ready. Catch everyone later.
58 posted on 11/07/2003 4:57:03 PM PST by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: radu
High altitude haze here, but the moon is still visible.
*chuckle*
It's odd how the number of accidents around my area increases dramatically around the time of the full moon.
59 posted on 11/07/2003 5:01:07 PM PST by Darksheare (DemUn, "Don't attribute to intelligence what is due mainly to incompitence")
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To: SAMWolf; Johnny Gage

US reports little fear of Stealth secrets lost
By David L. Chandler, Globe Staff, 04/14/99

Photos of the F-117 Stealth fighter that was shot down over Bosnia more than two weeks ago show that the wreckage had been picked clean within hours after the crash, but it is unlikely that the debris will provide useful information about the plane's design that was not already known, analysts said this week.

''Pictures several hours after the crash showed it had been picked clean,'' said aerospace analyst John Pike of the Federation of American Scientists in Washington. ''All of the sort of intact stealthy stuff,'' - such as the radar-evading materials from a large section of wing seen in the first photos of the crash site - ''went off very fast,'' Pike said, as seen in later pictures. ''I assume it was quickly auctioned off in very spirited bidding.''

Aerospace engineers in Russia, among other places, are undoubtedly studying these materials by now, Pike said, ''but they're probably not going to get an awful lot'' of information from it.

There are several reasons why aerospace engineers and analysts, while chagrined by the loss of the plane in hostile territory, are not losing sleep over the potential technology gains to those who analyze its parts. Primarily, they say, it is because the technology that went into that plane, designed to provide little or no radar reflection to those attempting to track it, was developed in the 1970s. The secret technologies for Stealth aircraft have progressed considerably since then.

In addition, they say, most of the information about the F-117 itself is already well known to anyone who is interested in it. The plane has been displayed at air shows, where any paying visitor could walk right up to the plane and examine it and take pictures, said Peter Young, an Air Force colonel and visiting lecturer in aerospace engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Aeronautics and Astronautics Department.

In a lecture at MIT a few weeks ago, Steven Justice of Lockheed-Martin, the chief engineer of the F-117, demonstrated some of the plane's radar-reflecting characteristics by using a widely available plastic kit of the Northrop B-2, Young said.

''The configuration is fairly well known, the materials are fairly well known, the things done to elude radar are well known,'' Young said. Any foreign analyst who gets a chance to analyze a piece of the wreckage, he said, will probably find that ''it just confirms what people already knew.''

The Russians, Young said, have already designed fighters for the export market that include some Stealth features. British and French aerospace companies are also said to be working on such designs. But none of them are likely to be influenced by the loss of this F-117, he said.

The Russians and the Chinese are thought to be about two decades behind the United States in aircraft technology, Pike said, which is approximately the age of the technology used in the F-117. The specifics of the the plane's design, Pike said, were in large part dictated by the limitations of the computers available in the 1970s for its design.

And the materials used to provide ''low-observability'' on radar screens are well known around the world, Pike said. As long ago as World War II, Germany had been experimenting with antiradar materials to use for the periscopes on their submarines.

Still, engineers in many places would be very interested in seeing a piece of an F-117 firsthand. ''Anybody who works on radar evasion wants to get a big piece from the leading practitioner,'' Pike said, and US Stealth aircraft design is acknowledged to be far ahead of any other nation's.

The F-117 was the first plane designed from scratch with radar evasion as its primary design criterion, but that choice entailed many compromises, analysts say. Speed, efficiency, and maneuverability all suffer somewhat as a result.

None of the plane's other features, such as its navigation and communication systems, are anything special, Pike said, and would be of little value to an adversary. ''They concentrated all the development on the Stealth, and everything else was just ordered out of a catalog,'' Pike said.

Still, Pike said, ''one of these falling into the hands of the Russians or the Chinese was not part of the plan.''

He said ''being able to analyze actual samples instead of just speculating about it is going to be useful for weapons and aircraft designers, even if it just confirms what they already knew.''

60 posted on 11/07/2003 5:03:44 PM PST by Light Speed
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