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The FReeper Foxhole Studies the M-1 "Garand" Rifle - November 17th, 2003
see educational sources

Posted on 11/17/2003 3:30:47 AM PST by snippy_about_it



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.



...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.

Our Mission:

The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

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The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer.

If the Foxhole makes someone appreciate, even a little, what others have sacrificed for us, then it has accomplished one of it's missions.

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M-1 Garand



Semi-automatic .30 Caliber Rifle


The M1, or Garand rifle as it came to be known after the name of its inventor, John Garand, held many advantages over the M1903 Springfield rifle. The semi-automatic operation and reduced recoil allowed new troops to achieve a higher degree of accuracy with a shorter period of training than was previously possible. The sighting system was superior under actual combat conditions.

Ease of disassembly, cleaning, and oiling were also a great advantage. Most important was the increase in rate of fire, limited only by the proficiency of the soldier in marksmanship and his dexterity in inserting eight round clips of ammunition into the weapon. In the face of overwhelming odds, the capability of the M1 rifle to deliver superior firepower would most often carry the day.

The first production M1 was successfully proof fired, function fired, and fired for accuracy on July 21, 1937. Thus began manufacture of what was to become the greatest production effort in the history of Springfield Armory. During the entire production history of the M1 rifle, Springfield Armory produced over 4.5 million M1s.




General Douglas MacArthur reported on the M1 to the Ordnance Department during heavy fighting on Bataan that: "Under combat conditions it operated with no mechanical defects and when used in foxholes did not develop stoppages from dust or dirt. It has been in almost constant action for as much as a week without cleaning or lubrication."




General George S. Patton Jr. reported to the Ordnance Department on January 26, 1945: "In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised."


The M1 rifle was described in military manuals as "a gas-operated, clip-fed, air-cooled, semi-automatic shoulder weapon." The design incorporated a spring-loaded piston operating within a gas cylinder mounted on the end of the barrel. Gas was fed through a gas port in the barrel to a fixture mounted at the muzzle of the barrel. As the bullet passed this point, exiting the barrel, the compressed gas behind it flowed down a port to the piston.

The piston drove a 16-inch operating rod to the rear where a cam on the back of the operating rod unlocked a two lug rotary bolt and then carried the bolt to the rear of the receiver. The operating rod, a hollow tube, contained a spring which resisted rearward movement. The spring, in turn, exerted pressure on the follower rod which operated the feeding mechanism of the weapon. Upon firing of the last cartridge, the clip was automatically ejected.




The M1, designed by John C. Garand, was the standard issue military rifle used by the U.S. Army from 1936 to 1957, when it was replaced by the lighter M14 rifle. The M1 was one of the first semi-automatic rifles to see action in combat. It offered a great improvement in fire power over the bolt-action M1903 series rifle it replaced. It was rugged, reliable, and tolerant to the abuses of use in the field. The rifle used .30-06 cal. cartridges in eight-round clips.




The M1C and M1D were sniper versions of the M1 Garand. The two models differed only in the telescope mounts. The M1C mounted a model M81 2.5X telescope; the M1D an M82 2.5X telescope.


A Marine sergeant credited with nine kills poses for a combat photographer during a break in the action in July 1952.


Both models were used as sniper rifles during World War II, Korea, and during the early years of the Vietnam war. Although considered obsolete, the M1D remained the official U.S. Army sniper rifle until the mid-1960s. Both versions used the standard Army .30-06 cartridge loaded manually, or in eight-round clips.



The "old timers" who fought with Pershing and Marshall in World War I, opposed the "reduced accuracy" of the Garand rifle as compared to the revered--and sometimes even coveted--M1903 Springfield rifle. Also loudly voiced were fears that the new self-loader would cause horrendous expenditures of ammunition without commensurate enemy troops neutralized. Strange . . . the same thing was said when the 20-round box magazine appeared on battle rifles in the 1950's--25 years later.



There was, however, a difference. The Garand rifle, in spite of its supposed shortcomings, in spite of fears by its critics of disproportionate ammunition expenditures, performed brilliantly throughout its entire military career, compiling a service record as yet unsurpassed by any successor.



From 1936 to, officially, 1957, the Garand was seen in the heat of battle worldwide. Unofficially, it can today be encountered although considered to be "obsolete" by all but the most knowing experts--the ones who haven't forgotten what wins.


Renowned small-arms expert S.L.A. Marshall, in his highly detailed and critical evaluation of the performance of U.S. Infantry weapons during the Korean War, noted the phenomenal love of the American infantryman for the weapon, who, without reservation, candidly stated to him on over a hundred occasions that he could not think of replacing it with anything else.



The legend of the Garand was--and is--based upon the unassailable fact that the weapon, in spite of its theoretical weaknesses, WORKS--in the mud, in the rain, in the snow, and in the dust.



There must be a balance between accuracy and firepower in the general application. On one end of the spectrum we have the traditional bolt-action rifle such as the M 1903 Springfield. On the other end we have the M16. The Springfield was rugged, highly accurate and powerful, but, in the acid test of modern warfare, proved to be more complex to operate than necessary and unable to produce sufficient volumes of fire to be adequately effective.



Springfield 1903


On the other hand, the M16 is fragile, lacks power and range, is only moderately accurate, and designed with the idea that the trooper is to substitute a high volume of automatic fire with an inadequately powered cartridge for marksmanship. Neither one of these concepts is satisfactory, for as with most questions, the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

John Garand understood this, for even though the M16 did not yet exist, the principles on which it was to be based did.


The rifle he designed and developed was the solidification of his thinking. It is capable of what has proven over the years to be superb accuracy, far more than one can actually utilize in the field. It functions itself, allowing the operator to spend more time on the basic fundamentals of marksmanship. It is powerful and rugged, capable of sustaining incredible abuse and yet still knock down an enemy at 500 meters.


It is a rifleman's rifle--in the purest form--yet it does not encourage wild, inaccurate fire, nor does it break in half when used in close combat. It instills confidence, not disgust. It is the almost ideal compromise between firepower and accuracy, between the old and the "new."


Even outside the military application, there can be no finer rifle for a serious survivalist or adventurer in the field, for most of the same criteria still apply. The box magazine is the result of a need to mass suppressive fire, so important to the successful consummation of squad tactics. It has no value whatsoever to an individual, only the members of a larger group. It is fragile, must be kept separate from its loaded counterparts, catches on things incessantly in the field, and is uncomfortable to carry and manipulate.

The 8-round en bloc staggered clip of the Garand is small, light, simple in principle and application, and disposable. Once it fulfills its function, it is automatically ejected from the weapon.

Criticisms of the fact that one cannot "top off" a partially loaded clip while in the weapon appear to more theoretical than practical, for if one has time to realize the need to reload, he can simply insert a fresh clip and at leisure reload any partially expended one via single rounds of ammunition carried on his person. This is no secret to the seasoned infantryman, no matter what his generation.

No box magazine-equipped rifle compares to the superior balance and "feel" of the M1. It shoulders quickly, positively, and possesses the best human engineering in the world. In the overall context, it is the easiest battle rifle to shoot well.


To many the M1 Rifle has a classic elegance and grace characteristic of a bygone era, when steel was forged in white heat and walnut was carefully shaped for both form and function. "There will never be again such a rifle, so brimming with the genius of an individual mind, so well constructed to outlive us all, so sculpted as to ask the hand to caress."


Criticisms of the M1 are its weight, limited ammunition supply, the fact that single rounds could not be pushed in (8 round clip, or nothing). Also, the spent clip was automatically ejected after the last round was fired, making a distinctive sound, which could be fatal in close quarter or sniper operations.


As a supplement to the Garand the M1 Carbine was developed. It was totally different design philosophy with a smaller, less powerful cartridge and an effective range of 300 yds max. It weighed almost exactly 1/2 that of the M1 Garand. In many ways you could think of the M1 Carbine as a moderately powerful, two-handed, long-barreled auto pistol with a shoulder stock.



Even G.I. Joe carried the M1-Garand.






FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links





TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: freeperfoxhole; garand; m1; michaeldobbs; rifle; samsdayoff; veterans
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To: weldgophardline
Good morning and thank you weldgophardline. Good to 'see' you again.
21 posted on 11/17/2003 5:48:33 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Birthdates which occurred on November 17:
0331 Flavius Claudius Julianus, [Julian the Apostate], emperor
1503 Il Bronzino Florentine painter (Eleanor de Toledo & her Son)
1587 Joost van den Vondel Cologne Germany, Dutch poet/dramatist (Jephtha)
1717 Jean d'Alembert Fr, mathematician/philosopher (Trait‚ de Dynamique)
1755 Louis XVIII 1st post-revolutionary king of France (1814-24)
1790 August Ferdinand Mobius mathematician, inventor (Mobius strip)
1799 Titian Ramsey Peale US, artist/naturalist (American Ornithology)
1878 Grace Abbott Grand Island NB, social worker (US Children Bureau)
1887 Bernard L Montgomery British general (WW II-African campaign)
1890 Jack Cusack pro football pioneer (Canton Bulldogs)
1897 Sara Haden Galveston TX, actress (A Family Affair)
1900 Marcel Dalio Paris, actor (Casablanca)
1901 Lee Strasberg director/instructs actors (Somewhere in the Night)
1904 Isamu Noguchi sculptor (1963 Fine Arts Medal)
1905 Mischa Auer St Petersburg Russia, actor (My Man Godfrey)
1914 Archie Campbell Bullsgap TN, comedian (Hee Haw)
1917 Jack Lescoulie Sacramento CA, TV host (Jackie Gleason Show)
1919 Hershy Kay Philadelphia PA, composer/arranger (Olympic Hymn)
1925 Rock Hudson Winnetka IL, actor (Pillow Talk, A Farewell to Arms)
1925 Sir Charles Mackerras Schenectady NY, Australian conductor
1929 Edgar White US, yachtsman (Olympic-gold-1952)
1929 Sumner White US, yachtsman (Olympic-gold-1952)
1930 Bob Mathias Tulare CA, decathalete (Olympic-gold-1948, 52)
1930 David Amram Philadelphia PA, composer (Splendor in the Grass)
1935 Anton Sailer Austria, skier (Olympic-3 golds-1956)
1937 Peter Cook Torquay England, actor/comedian (Bedazzled)
1938 Gordon Lightfoot Ontario Canada, folksinger (Sundown)
1938 Peter Snell NZ, 800m/1500m runner (Olympic-gold-1960, 64)
1942 Martin Scorsese Queens, dir (Mean Streets, Last Temptation of Christ)
1943 Lauren Hutton Charleston SC, model (American Gigolo, Lassiter)
1944 Danny De Vito Neptune NJ, actor (Taxi, Ruthless People, Twins)
1944 Tom Seaver pitcher (NY Met, 300 game winner, Cy Young '69 '73 '75)
1945 Elvin Hayes NBA star (San Diego, Houston, Baltimore)
1948 Jaime Huelamo Spain, cyclist (Olympic-bronze-1972) drug disqualified
1950 Roland Matthes German DR, 100m/200m backstroke (Oly-gold-1968, 72)
1951 Dean Paul Martin Santa Monica CA, actor (Billy-Misfits of Science)
1952 Roman Codreanu Romania, wrestler (Olympic-1980)
1955 Bill McCreary Ontario, NHL referee
1955 Peter Cox rocker (Go West-Call Me, Don't Look Down)
1958 Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio Oak Park IL, actress (Color of Money)
1959 William R Moses Los Angeles CA, actor (Cole-Falcon Crest)
1960 Jonathan Ross British talk show host
1961 Merete Van Kemp Denmark, actress (Grace-Dallas, Princess Daisy)
1962 Eric Olson Santa Monica CA, actress (Apple's Way)
1962 Traci Lords fictious birth date to do porn movies (actual 5/7/68)
1963 Pedro Luis Estrada Brooklyn NY, murderer (FBI Most Wanted List)
1964 Daisy Fuentes Havana Cuba, VJ (MTV International)
1964 Marina Tcherkasova US, pairs figure skater (Olympic-silver-1980)
1966 Sophie Marceau Paris France, actress (La Boum, L'Amour Braque)
1967 Ronald DaVoe rocker (New Edition-Heart Break)
1974 Brandon Call actor (Baywatch, Blind Fury, Step by Step)
1980 Clarke Isaac Hanson Tulsa OK, guitarist-Hanson (MMMBop)





Deaths which occurred on November 17:
0474 Leo II, Byzantine Emperor (474), dies
1558 Mary I Tudor, "Bloody Mary", queen of England (1553-58), dies at 42
1558 Reginald Pole, English cardinal/scholar/"heretic", dies at 58
1796 Catharine II ("the Great"), empress of Russia (1762-96), dies at 67
1917 Auguste Rodin sculptor, dies in Meudon, France
1962 Arthur Vining Davis CEO (Alcoa-1910-57), dies at 92 in Miami
1971 Gladys Cooper actress (Margaret-The Rogues), dies at 83
1978 Claude Dauphin actor (Paris Precinct), dies at 75
1978 James J "Gene" Tunney, heavyweight boxing champ (1926-8), dies at 80
1979 John Grascock of Jethro Tull, dies at 27 following heart surgery
1981 Bob Eberly singer (Jimmy Dorsey Band), dies at 65
1982 Bill Baldwin announcer (Mayor of Hollywood), dies at 69
1982 Duk Koo Kim S Korean boxer was legally declared dead
1982 Ruth Donnelly comedienne, dies at 86 in NYC
1985 Jimmy Ritz of Ritz brothers, dies of heart failure at 81
1986 Alan Hewitt actor (Det Brennan-My Favorite Martian), dies at 71
1987 Irene Wicker singer/actress (Singing Lady), dies at 81




Reported: MISSING in ACTION

1965 BOWLING ROY H.---SAN BERNARDINO CA.
1965 HIEMER JERRY A.---MEMPHIS TN.
1965 TAYLOR JESSE JR.---LOS ALAMITOS CA.
[REMAINS RETURNED 12/21/75]
1967 CAPPELLI CHARLES R.---PROVIDENCE RI.
[GOOD CHUTE REMAINS RETURNED 04/89]
1967 EMRICH ROGER GENE---MIAMI FL.
[POSS DEAD, REM RET ID 02/25/97]
1967 KEY WILSON D.---HAYES NC.
[03/14/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE AND WELL 98]
1967 MC GRATH WILLIAM DARRELL---COLTON CA.
[POSS DEAD, REMAINS RECOVERED 12/04/85]
1968 DERBY PAUL D.---MENOMONIE WI.

POW / MIA Data & Bios supplied by
the P.O.W. NETWORK. Skidmore, MO. USA.


On this day...
1278 680 Jews arrested (293 hanged) in England for counterfeiting coins
1558 Elizabeth I ascends English throne upon death of Queen Mary
1734 John Zenger, arrested for libel against NY col gov; later acquitted
1796 Battle of Arcole-Napoleon I's French forces beat Austrians in Italy
1800 Congress held 1st session in Washington DC
1800 John Adams is 1st president to move into the White House
1842 Fugitive slave George Latimer, captured in Boston
1842 The opera "Linda di Chamounix" is produced (London)
1853 Street signs authorized at San Francisco intersections
1858 Origin of Modified Julian Period
1862 Union General Ambrose Burnside marches north out of Washington, D.C., to begin the Fredericksburg campaign
1862 Confederate Secretary of War George B Randolph resigns
1866 The opera "Mignon" is produced (Paris)
1869 Suez Canal opens (Egypt)
1875 Amer Theosophical Society founded by Mme Blavatsky & Col Olcott
1884 Cops arrest John L Sullivan in 2nd round for being "cruel"
1889 Union Pacific begins daily through service, Chicago-Portland & San Francisco
1894 Daily Racing Form founded
1913 1st US dental hygienists course established, Bridgeport, Ct
1913 Panama Canal opens
1917 Lenin defends "temporary" removal of freedom of the press
1926 NHL's Chicago Black Hawks play their 1st game, beat Toronto St Pats 4-1
1927 Tornado hit Washington DC
1934 Lyndon B Johnson marries Claudia Alta Taylor
1937 Britain's Lord Halifax visits Germany, beginning of appeasement
1938 Italy passes their own version of the anti-Jewish Nuremberg laws
1940 Green Bay Packers become 1st NFL team to travel by plane
1945 New world air speed record 606 mph (975 kph) set by HJ Wilson of RAF
1948 Britain's House of Commons votes to nationalize steel industry
1956 Fullback Jim Brown, Syracuse, scores 43 pts (NCAA rec) vs Colgate
1959 De Beers firm of South Africa announces synthetic diamond
1962 President Kennedy dedicates Dulles International Airport outside Wash DC
1965 The NVA ambushes American troops of the 7th Cavalry at Landing Zone Albany in the Ia Drang Valley, almost wiping them out
1966 Leonids meteor shower peaks (150,000+ per hour)
1967 Beatles Ltd & Apple Music Ltd swap names
1967 Surveyor 6 becomes 1st man-made object to lift off the Moon
1968 Heidi bowl-NBC misses Oakland's rally to beat Jets, 43-32
1970 Russia lands Lunokhod 1 unmanned remote-controlled vehicle on Moon
1973 Teri Garr plays the role of a stripper on "The Nurse"
1973 President Nixon told AP "...people have got to know whether or not their President is a crook. Well, I'm not a crook"
1977 Egyptian President Sadat formally accepts invitation to visit Israel
1977 Miss World Contest - Miss UK wears $9,500 platinum bikini
1979 NY Stars (WBL) home opener at MSG in NYC
1980 John Lennon releases "Double Fantasy" album in UK
1981 NBA NY Knick Bill Cartwright, ties record of 19 of 19 free throws
1984 Golden State Warrior scores 59 points losing to NJ Nets 124-110
1984 Islanders score 20 assists against Rangers
1985 NY Jets best offensive production beating Tampa Bay 62-28
1988 Benzir Bhutto wins election in Pakistan
1989 Bret Saberhagen signs record $2,966,667 per year Kansas City Royal contract
1989 Riot police in Prague, Czechoslovakia, stormed into a crowd of more than 20-thousand pro-democracy demonstrators...beating people with truncheons and firing tear gas.
1991 Detroit Lion Mike Utley is paralyzed in a game vs Los Angeles Rams
1992 Dateline NBC airs a demonstration show General Motors trucks, blowing up on impact, later revealed NBC rigged test
1993 US Congress votes for NAFTA
1994 Irish Taoiseach, Albert Reynolds resigns



Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Zaire : Army Day
US : National Geography Awareness Week (Day 2)
US : Homemade Bread Day
US : National Children's Book Week Begins (Monday)
West Germany : Repentance Day (Wednesday)
TV Sweeps Month


Religious Observances
Ang : Commemoration of St Anianus' Day (bishop/martyr)
RC : Comm of St Gregory the Wonderworker, bishop/confessor
Ang : Commemoration of Hugh, Bishop of Lincoln
RC, Luth : Mem of Elizabeth of Hungary, princess/widow



Religious History
0003 (BC) According to early Christian theologian Clement of Alexandria (ca.155_ca.220 AD), Jesus Christ was born on this date.
1758 English churchman Philip Embury, 30, married Margaret Switzer. Afterward immigrating to America, Embury was later encouraged by his cousin Barbara Heck to found a Methodist society in New York City in 1768. Embury thus became the first Methodist preacher in North America.
1775 Anglican hymnwriter John Newton wrote in a letter: 'Rational assent may be the act of our natural reason; faith is the effect of immediate almighty power.'
1876 English_born Rodney ("Gipsy") Smith, 16, was converted to a living faith. Smith later became an English Wesleyan singing evangelist whose preaching emphasized the love of God.
1906 In Toronto, Ellen Hebden experienced a Pentecostal baptism, followed soon after by her husband James. Their East End Mission afterward became a source and focal point for establishing Pentecostal holiness throughout Canada.

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.


Thought for the day :
"Thrift is a wonderful virtue - in an ancestor."


Question of the day...
Should Vegetarians eat animal crackers?


Murphys Law of the day...(Boling's Postulate)
If you're feeling good, don't worry. You'll get over it.


WOW!! did you know...
Madrid is the only European capital city not situated on a river.

22 posted on 11/17/2003 5:50:15 AM PST by Valin (We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.)
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: Matthew Paul
Maybe they used them for dinner plates too. LOL.


24 posted on 11/17/2003 6:39:03 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Thanks for the alert. I was an Infantry Rifleman and carried my M-1 through France, Germany and Austria. Didn't leave home without it.
25 posted on 11/17/2003 7:15:01 AM PST by ex-snook (Americans need Balanced Trade - we buy from you, you buy from us. No free rides.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good Morning Sippy. Excellent thread!

I never got to carry the M-1 Garand, but it did carry it's younger brother the M-14, I preferred the M-14 over the M-16.

Someone once gave what is perhaps the best definition of firepower when he said that, "firepower is bullets hitting people!"


26 posted on 11/17/2003 7:20:17 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: E.G.C.
Morning E.G.C.

Rain again today, had high winds yesterday, no more leaves on the trees :-)
28 posted on 11/17/2003 7:24:06 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: SCDogPapa
Good Morning, SCDogPapa. Can't beleive I got misty eyed reading about a rifle.
29 posted on 11/17/2003 7:25:16 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: The Mayor
Hiya Mayor.
30 posted on 11/17/2003 7:25:36 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: manna
Hi Manna!


31 posted on 11/17/2003 7:25:53 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: The Mayor
Size wise there's a big difference..
32 posted on 11/17/2003 7:30:26 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; radu; All

Good morning everyone!

33 posted on 11/17/2003 7:32:03 AM PST by Soaring Feather (~The Dragon Flies' Lair~ Poetry is the flair.)
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To: U S Army EOD

6.5x50SR, 7.92x33, 7.62x33, 7.62x39, 7.62x45, 7x49, 5.45x39, 5.56x45, 7.62x51 for scale.

34 posted on 11/17/2003 7:35:35 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: aomagrat
Morning aomagrat.

I was wondering if one of those silly looking masts ever collapsed, now I know.
35 posted on 11/17/2003 7:37:01 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: ex-snook
You're welcome and thank you for your service. So was it as reliable as everyone says?
36 posted on 11/17/2003 7:39:06 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SAMWolf
LOL. Good morning SAM. Thanks for the army of smiley faces well armed!
37 posted on 11/17/2003 7:39:52 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Matthew Paul
Good Morning Matt.

I wish we had a similar forum in Poland.

You do, It's called the "FReeper Foxhole" ;-)

You could always give assignments having your students translate the threads into Polish for "extra credit".

38 posted on 11/17/2003 7:40:43 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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To: bentfeather
Good morning feather.
39 posted on 11/17/2003 7:41:14 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: weldgophardline
Morning weldgophardline. I never got to fire the carbine.
40 posted on 11/17/2003 7:42:05 AM PST by SAMWolf (Talk is cheap except when Congress does it.)
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