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The FReeper Foxhole Remembers the Campaign to Capture Geronimo (Jul - Sep, 1886) - June, 13th, 2005
Wild West Magazine | October 1999 | Louis Kraft

Posted on 06/12/2005 10:08:19 PM PDT by SAMWolf

click here to read article


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To: Iris7
Iris, your calculations support the old saying, "amateurs talk tactics but professionals talk logistics."
41 posted on 06/13/2005 12:12:42 PM PDT by colorado tanker (The People Have Spoken)
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To: PzLdr; SAMWolf

This is just my lack of knowledge of the period, but I thought Mexico didn't allow the Army to chase Indians in Mexico.


42 posted on 06/13/2005 12:14:13 PM PDT by colorado tanker (The People Have Spoken)
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To: Valin; Professional Engineer; SAMWolf; bentfeather; snippy_about_it; All
1920 U.S. Post Office Department rules that children may not be sent by parcel post

Don't forget the airholes now, ya 'ere!!!

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

43 posted on 06/13/2005 12:26:38 PM PDT by alfa6 (Two wrongs don't make a right, but two Wrights made an airplane!)
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To: SAMWolf

I'm off work tomorrow...my quilt guild day. I'm glad I don't have to get up at 5:30 am.


44 posted on 06/13/2005 12:50:17 PM PDT by GailA (Glory be to GOD and his only son Jesus.)
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To: colorado tanker
The Pik is from the Wild Bunch, isn't it?

Yep. IMHO, one of the best Westerns ever made.

45 posted on 06/13/2005 12:54:01 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Why is lemon juice mostly artificial ingredients but dishwashing liquid contains real lemons?)
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To: SAMWolf
I agree, the Wild Bunch was a fine movie.

There were also several westerns that used parts of the Geronimo story for plots. Fort Apache and Rio Grande come to mind.

46 posted on 06/13/2005 1:07:16 PM PDT by colorado tanker (The People Have Spoken)
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To: colorado tanker

Originally, they didn't. But the Apaches played the border like the VC played Cambodia. Eventually, the Mexican and US govts agreed to let each other's troops chase Apaches over the border in hot pursuit, and several states (Sonora, Chihuahua) allowed US troops to operate in their territory. Nor was the concept one-sided. The Nedni Apache lived in the Sierra Madres in Mexico. By all accounts they were some of the toughest Apaches on the planet. On two separate occasions, their chief, Juh [pronounced Whoa] led war parties into the US for the specific purpose of killing two Army officers who were having success against the Apaches here.Juh, who was related to Geronimo by marriage, killed both of them.


47 posted on 06/13/2005 1:30:15 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: alfa6

LOL

Cute picture.


48 posted on 06/13/2005 1:35:38 PM PDT by Soaring Feather
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; Iris7; Valin; stainlessbanner
Evening Grace Folks~

Hey it's 4PM in Virginia . . . that means I'm posting early for the Foxhole. ;^)

Sure wish I had time to read this, it's an excellent read.

Here are some early pics of our visit to Gettysburg.

From where I'm standing is the woods where Gen. Reynolds was fatally shot. The Trostle Barn in the background.

Day 1, July 1st Lt. Cmdr. Rufus Dawes of the 6th Wisconsin counter attacks at the RR tracks near Willoughby Run River NW of Gettysburg against Col. Edward Fowler of the 2nd Mississippi Infantry.

Starting point along Seminary ridge of Gen. James Pettigrew and Isaac Trimbles advance on Cemetery Hill.

Further down the line of Seminary Ridge, the starting point of Pickett's charge. The group of trees on the right are the target. The tree in the center is where the CSA temporarily broke through.

I walked out to the half-way point of Pickett's charge where the line started to severely brake. The statue of Lee on Traveler is the starting point.

Where I'm standing is where Lee rode out to say "It has been all my fault" to his retreating bloodied troops. (FWIW, at this point of the tour I lost it)

Okay, gotta head out for dinner, I'll post more later.

49 posted on 06/13/2005 1:36:12 PM PDT by w_over_w (Has anyone read "Self Esteem for Dummies"?)
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To: alfa6

A head in a box. Somebody's gonna get a long sentence over that one.


50 posted on 06/13/2005 2:21:22 PM PDT by Professional Engineer (Do, or do not. There is no try. ~ Yoda)
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To: w_over_w

Wonderful pictures sweetie and I'm sure it was emotional. Looks like a great day weather-wise.


51 posted on 06/13/2005 2:21:26 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: alfa6; Valin
...children may not be sent by parcel post.

How about adults?

52 posted on 06/13/2005 2:22:21 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it

FedEx only. Sorry


53 posted on 06/13/2005 5:05:56 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; Iris7; Aeronaut; E.G.C.; GailA; alfa6; bentfeather; The Mayor; Valin; ...
We are lucky to have a first-hand account of the use of the heliograph by C.F. von Herrmann, the first heliograph operator stationed at Fort Huachuca. Here are some excerpts from his account:*

I received telegraphic instructions to report at once for duty to General Miles at Fort Huachuca, Ariz. for duty against the Apache Indians which had gone on the war path in southern Arizona and northern Mexico. This was Geronimo and his band.

When I arrived at Fort Huachuca my previous military experience was again serviceable. For on reporting to the adjutant he started to say I will assign you to troop so-and-so, but I spoke up quickly and said that the men of the Signal Corps on duty outside of Washington did not participate with the troops but would take care of themselves, as he could judge by the fact that I wore no uniform. "All right," he said, "there is a hotel," and promptly forgot all about it. So I took quarters at the hotel and there I found also all the young unmarried lieutenants and other officers, and as they did not know me I was not disturbed, and remained at the hotel for some time until I found more reasonably priced lodging and board with a married commissary sergeant. I was the only man apparently who had so far been ordered to Huachuca for heliograph duty, ... By the time the new men arrived, I had already completed a permanent heliograph station on a pretty high hill close to Huachuca. This station used a large round heliograph mirror which tipped backward and forward slightly by means of a key at the back, making a click just like a telegraph sounder. No screen was required as the flash of light was simply lifted far above and dropped down to the station to make the dots and dashes. I had had a very firm stand or table made with heavy posts let into the ground, and the outfit worked wonderfully well. ...

Here there occurred an illustration of the effect of the clearness of the atmosphere in the west, which was well known to me. The young fellows from Ft. Myer [Va] had none of them ever been west. When they first visited my heliograph station I pointed out to them a town in which the houses could be very clearly seen. I asked the boys how far away they thought it was. One spoke up and said, "You can't fool us on that proposition. We have heard all about the deceptiveness of distances in this country, and so although that place looks to me to be about 2 miles distant, I'll say it is 5 miles." With this the others mostly agreed and were astonished when they found the place was 25 miles away.

When I reported to General Miles the morning after my arrival, he informed me that the plan was to establish signal stations on prominent peaks for the purpose of watching the country thoroughly by telescopes and transmitting intelligence of the movements of troops and of hostile Indians by the heliograph which would be the instrument chiefly used. I was able to inform General Miles that I had had considerable success in the use of the heliograph while at the school of instruction at Fort Myer, Va. and that I could instruct men in the use of the instrument. Classes for instruction were at once assigned to me. We practiced across the parade ground and the officers, I could see, had but little belief that the instrument could be of any service.

As the altitude of Huachuca is very considerable, the sun was very powerful, and being obliged to be in bright sunlight practically from sunrise to sun set, my face burned terribly and the skin peeled off not once but continually, as I unfortunately do not burn brown but rather burn up. Finally the adjutant of the post took compassion on me, and gave me an oddly made shade. It had a strong wire frame which was secured around the body, and above it an umbrella like structure covered with white canvas, which could be folded over the back when not in use. I wore this all the time and it was certainly a comfort, but it was conspicuous and I became a notorious character.

During May, 1886, before there were any other heliograph stations established excepting the one at Huachuca, I made my big flash move continually around the country trying to stir up something, and especially I directed it on every little collection of houses that I could see through the telescope, so that the natives were generally more or less wonderstruck. At last one day I got an answering flash very faint from a party in the field, and after careful adjustment took a message to the commanding office requesting the immediate dispatch of forage and other supplies to a place some fifty miles away. When I delivered this telegram to the Commanding office, the fact became known shortly and a crowd of officers came up to the heliograph station to see it work. The supplies were sent at once. I have seen the heliograph flash as far away as Ft. Bowie, 90 miles distant.

Huachuca was station No. 7, and communicated west with Mt. Baldy, about 40 miles, on which my friend Neifert was in charge. The heliograph line ultimately attained a length of over 200 miles from Mt. Baldy, to stations in New Mexico, and undoubtedly aided the troops in capturing Geronimo and his men who were frightened by the flashes of light which appeared everywhere. But this story has no doubt been fully told in public reports.

The time I spent at Ft. Huachuca was very pleasant. The work was interesting, the climate was fine, and the skies so clear at night, that having an excellent book on astronomy with me with some good charts of the constellations, I spent a good part of every night in studying the heavens and learned much about the "friendly stars."

The heliograph stations were discontinued in September, 1886, and I was ordered to take charge of the station at LaCrosse, Wis. I got on the train at Huachuca station with a straw hat and linen duster, and as the country was uninteresting and besides familiar to me, I hardly left the car, reading novels most of the time until I reached Omaha. Here I got off the train and for a moment was surprised to have everybody at the depot staring at me, until I began to feel that it was very cold, and presently saw a cold wave flag flying and found that the temperature was 3 degrees below zero. I bought an overcoat, quick.

*from A National Weather Service Publication In Support of The Celebration of American Weather Services...Past, Present and Future on the NOAA website, http://www.nws.noaa.gov/pa/history/herrmann.php

The complete document by Herrmann can be found at the above web address. If you are interested in learning more about the heliograph you should check out James Riddle's site, Heliography, (Communicating with Mirrors) by James Riddle - KD7AOI The web address is http://myweb.cableone.net/kd7aoi/

~~~


Heliograph: Signalling by the sun

~~~

High Resolution Map
1886 Lines and Stations of Heliographic System
Dept. of Arizona

Size is 2000 X 1342
May require using Fit button at lower right to enlarge
Security warning box will summon men in black
Click yes to proceed to alien mother ship

54 posted on 06/13/2005 5:17:56 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; PhilDragoo; All
Happy Monday, all.


55 posted on 06/13/2005 7:20:56 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Professional Engineer

e^{pi i} + 1 = 0

Pal Erdos said that this Euler identity was proof of God's existance. The question is, was Erdos serious? Of vastly greater importance, is God?

(Don't ask me to prove e^{pi i} + 1 = 0 without Google to help. Headache, whew!!)


56 posted on 06/14/2005 1:00:22 AM PDT by Iris7 ("War means fighting, and fighting means killing." - Bedford Forrest)
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To: colorado tanker
Thanks for the kind words.

Believe it or not, I like military logistics.

Like SAM pointed out Rommel in North Africa is a logistical story. There are so many others. Barbarossa, the Confederacy, the Sherman tank not being replaced in a timely fashion, and New Guinea - Guadalcanal come to mind. Ludendorff spent most of his time on supply.

Bedford Forrest always made sure there was enough stuff to win and to get home. Maybe two to a horse, and no food at all for the last three days, but enough to win and get home.

I like that "win and get home" part!!!
57 posted on 06/14/2005 1:16:19 AM PDT by Iris7 ("War means fighting, and fighting means killing." - Bedford Forrest)
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To: w_over_w

Thank you.

My very serious intention of visiting Gettysburg is now more serious.

Charging across that field of fire you show very well, Pickett and the lads, is death. Maybe Lee should have waited for night.

Large scale night attacks, can't recall any in that war. Stonewall was trying to set one up when he was shot.


58 posted on 06/14/2005 1:45:51 AM PDT by Iris7 ("War means fighting, and fighting means killing." - Bedford Forrest)
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To: PhilDragoo


59 posted on 06/14/2005 3:08:56 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: w_over_w
Thanks for the pics w_over_w.

I never made it to Gettysburg :-(

...at this point of the tour I lost it

I know the feeling, the sunken road at Antietam did it to me.

60 posted on 06/14/2005 6:36:28 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Why is lemon juice mostly artificial ingredients but dishwashing liquid contains real lemons?)
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