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The FReeper Foxhole Remembers Charles W. Anderson and the 15th Air Force - Oct. 8th, 2003
http://www2.gvsu.edu/~vandelej/part1.html ^ | Leslie VanderMeulen

Posted on 10/07/2003 11:59:56 PM PDT by SAMWolf



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.


...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.

Our Mission:

The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

Welcome to "Warrior Wednesday"

Where the Freeper Foxhole introduces a different veteran each Wednesday. The "ordinary" Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine who participated in the events in our Country's history. We hope to present events as seen through their eyes. To give you a glimpse into the life of those who sacrificed for all of us - Our Veterans.

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click on the books below.

My Grandfather's Story
by Leslie VanderMeulen


Leslie VanderMeulen is a student at Grand Valley State University. For a semester project, she chose to research her grandfather's military career.

Charles Waldo Anderson, my grandfather, served in World War II, a war that altered his life forever. I have never had the privilege of meeting this man, but have been told his story many times. Gentle, shy, intelligent, fun loving, easy-going, a good sense of humor are words and phrases that characterized my grandfather’s personality before the war. Unfortunately, his experiences during the war had lasting effects, and after returning home he was not the same. I am not at all surprised that he changed in light of his time in war; many men with many different stories changed after they faced war.


Charles Anderson served as a tail gunner in the 15th Army Air Force, 463rd Bomb Group, 772nd Bomb Squadron during World War II. On February 13, 1945 his plane was shot down, and he spent the rest of the war as a POW in several camps.


A young Charles planned to enlist in the Army on a Monday in 1942. It is fortunate that he wanted to join, because he received enlistment papers before he went down to sign up. He departed for St. Louis, Missouri, only twenty-one and recently married. For six months he went through basic training in St. Louis, then (in February 1943) he went to Las Vegas, Nevada for gunnery training. In May of that year he joined his flight crew and departed for Sioux City, Iowa where they underwent combat training. After graduating from combat training, his flight crew picked up their plane in Nebraska and proceeded to their final destination: Foggia, Italy, which remained their home for the duration of the war.



In Foggia, and anywhere troops are stationed during wartime, the soldiers lived in humble quarters, to say the least. All soldiers of every rank slept in tents on the ground at camp. However, my grandfather’s crew used their ingenuity and made their stay as comfortable as possible. One night they took the rations of whiskey, which they received periodically, into town where they sold it and bought basic building supplies. When they returned to camp they built a small house, and when everyone woke up in the morning, they saw this little building in the middle of camp. Simply built of brick with a roof on top, it was a humble house. Nevertheless, my grandfather and his crew had the best sleeping quarters of any of the soldiers.


Camp in Foggia, Italy.


Though the crews tried to make the best out of life in the camp, wartime certainly did not consist of fun and games. My grandfather’s flight crew performed many missions during their time in Foggia. The crew was part of the15th Army Air Corps, specifically in the 463rd Bomb Group, 772nd Bomb Squadron, where my grandfather did his job as a tail gunner on their B-17. A tail gunner’s job is to shoot from the rear of the plane. Their final mission took place on February 13, 1945. This mission included bombing Vienna, Austria, and proved to be quite unsuccessful. The plane received a shot in the fourth engine, causing the third engine to catch on fire. This sent the plane crashing down in flames, and the entire crew bailed out at 15,000 feet. The report sent to my grandmother regarding the crash stated “plane sighted going down in flames – no parachutes sighted”.



My grandfather experienced a stroke of luck that day which saved his life. After he bailed out of the plane he landed in a tree, while his crewmembers landed on the ground. When Viennese civilians found six of the crew members, my grandfather watched them lynch his friends right there. The civilians took this action because German soldiers had convinced them that the Air Corps planned to bomb their villages and homes, thus they were very angry at these soldiers. German soldiers did find my grandfather’s extra pair of shoes that had fallen off his belt when they went to look for survivors. However, seeing no footprints in the snow, they concluded that this man must be dead. Lucky for my grandfather, they did not look up to see him sitting there in a bare tree.


Tail Gunner position on a B-17


In a report taken after the war, my grandfather stated that he evaded capture for three days, but a farmer turned him in, and he was then taken to Weiner Neustadt Airfield, Austria. Held there from February 16 to March 5, he then encountered interrogation for two days (March 8-10). After the interrogation, he was transported to three more camps. From March 12 through 16 he stayed at Dulagluft, March 18 through April 4 held at Nuremberg, and from April 4 to 29 at Moosburg.

My grandfather never spoke to his children about the treatment at the camps. All that he did say is that they were given very little to eat, so that they would be too weak to fight back. Most imprisoned soldiers involuntarily participated in prison detail, which consisted of any hard labor that could be found to keep the prisoners occupied. Most of this work done outside the camps, thus the Army Air Corps could not participate. Airmen could not perform prison detail because of the angry civilians, who attempted to harm them. If the men in the Air Corps attempted to work outside the prison, civilians tried to throw stones and such at them.



Civilians also abused soldiers during their marches between camps by throwing stones and rocks at them. The walked to and from camps or railcars must have been terrifying. Not only targeted by civilians, my grandfather and fellow soldiers incurred bombing by their own men in a few instances. While on a 100-mile march to Munich, they feared for their lives as their own planes dropped bombs on them. The soldiers faced more bombing by American planes when held locked in boxcars for three days in the Nuremberg Rail Yards. In this situation, the men stood cramped in the small cars with no room to sit, no food, water, or sanitation. The soldiers probably faced more danger between camps, whether walking or on trains, than actually in the camps.

The treatment that my grandfather and his fellow prisoners received was certainly inhumane. The situation did improve in a few instances, however, and that is how they knew the end of the war neared. Food rations increased, and the prisoners began to receive better treatment from the guards. The prisons also removed some guards from their posts who previously mistreated prisoners. This occurred because when the war ended and U.S. troops came in, they asked the soldiers who had mistreated them. These guards got taken out and immediately shot.


Charles W. Anderson


Luckily for my grandfather, his plane was shot down towards the end of the war, therefore was only held as a prisoner of war for a short time. After the war ended, he headed for Camp Lucky Strike in France, where he would be sent to London, and then home. However, he caught the mumps in France, hence he was detained in the hospital for three weeks. By the time he was on the way home, my grandmother finally received word that he had been accounted for. On July 11, 1945 he returned home for good.



Honorably discharged from the Army on September 25, 1945, my grandfather received several medals including a Prisoner of War Medal, an American Campaign Medal, a World War II Victory Medal, and a Purple Heart. Hearing all of this, I wonder how he felt about his experience in the war and how it ended. Since he rarely talked to his kids about it, all I can guess from is the ways in which his personality changed after he returned. Instead of easy-going and gentle, he became a man with an unpredictable temper, not much respect for authority, and a bitterness about him. Obviously this change stemmed from his time during the war, perhaps as a result of seeing and enduring too much in not very many years.



TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: 15thairforce; b17; charlesanderson; freeperfoxhole; italy; pow; veterans; warriorwednesday; wwii
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The 15th Army Air Force & the B-17


A major aspect of combat in World War II included air warfare, which established lasting change in the way the world conducts war. Many American men in the Army Air Force courageously flew all over the world during the Second World War. Armed with their B-17’s, my grandfather and many other men flew bravely across Europe, contributing to the eventual defeat of the Axis powers.


General James H. Doolittle
First Commander of the 15th Air Force


The Army Air Force entered the war with 25,000 enlisted men and 4,000 aircraft. As the men and their planes proved themselves worthy of battle, the air force grew rapidly. During the peak of the war, the air force counted 2,411,294 officers and enlisted men, and 75,000 aircraft. These men and their planes proved a huge asset to the war effort, but unfortunately many sacrificed themselves for the endeavor. The air force lost 229,544 aircraft from July 1940 through August 1945, while 52,173 of the 115,382 men injured in combat died. The AAF lost more planes than men injured because many airmen survived the plane crashes. Many men whose planes crashed ended up as prisoners of war. Though the army suffered many casualties, the Air Force definitely did their part in the war effort.

The B-17, one of the primary Army planes used in WWII, had its birth shortly before the war. Boeing, in 1935, had just finished up a prototype of the B-17, an advanced bomber. A Seattle newspaper covered the story and the editor, Richard L. Williams, chose the caption “15-ton Flying Fortress” for the picture. The name stuck, which is why “B-17” is interchangeable with “Flying Fortress.” The plane, originally designed for long-range ocean patrol to protect the U.S. coastline, caught the Army’s eye. Though expensive, the Air Force bought the Fortress in 1939, with the B-17B model.


Charles with his crew (names not known), he is top right, sitting on the tail.


Of all B-17s used in WWII, the B-17G model proved to be the most advanced. The B-17 turned out to be one of the most successful aircraft in the Army. The Flying Fortress included models ranging from the first, a B-15YB, to (what my grandfather flew in) the B-17 G introduced in September 1943. The G model added superior technology over the other models, and it was therefore dubbed the supreme Fortress model. Thus, 8,680 of the 12,731 B-17s produced were model Gs. These B-17s were used primarily in the 15th Army Air Force.

In November 1943, four Bomb Groups in North Africa and the 12th Air Force combined under direction of General James Doolittle to create the 15th Army Air Force. The 15th AAF moved to Foggia, Italy where they targeted Southern Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and the Balkans, which could not be reached by the 8th Air Force located in England. Stationed in the “Mediterranean theater” as they called it, the 15th AAF did not perform long-range bombing but strategic bombings, such as destroying supply lines. The 15th Air Force began operations on November 2, 1943, attacking Messerschmitt factory at Weiner Neustadt (where my grandfather was first held as POW). The most important feat of the 15th AAF was destroying oil fields at Ploesti during July and August of 1944. “Chiefly in Europe, in the hostile skies over Adolf Hitler’s Third Reich the Flying Fortress would become legendary”. The 15th did major damage to Germany and the Axis powers, contributing to the Allied cause.



The men in the 15th AAF armed with their B-17s became a powerful asset for the allied forces during WWII. The B-17s flew at very high altitudes, and they could actually target “not just enemy factories, but parts of factories”. This spectacular combat weapon became a major threat to enemies. Bluntly stated, “the B-17 was not built for leisure, but for the most dangerous of professions - total war”. These heavy bombers made their presence known through their bombs. Also called “Queen of the Skies,” the B-17 dropped more than 640,000 tons of bombs in Europe. This is more than the 452,000 tons dropped by B-24’s and the 436,000 by other American aircraft. Early in 1945 sections of Europe targeted by the Army Air Force had been reduced to “near impotence” by lack of supplies “due in no small part to the strategic bombing offensive against Germany carried out by the 15th AF”.


The Tail gunner knelt at his position and may have been the most isolated of the crew. Great care had to be taken to make sure oxygen flow was maintained while at altitude. Without any crew members close at hand to keep watch the Tail Gunner needed to be self sufficient. Oxygen deprivation was a serious problem and was the cause for many aircrew casualties.

The position provided powerful protection for the aircraft and enemy fighters were never quick to attack a group of B-17's from behind. The position also provided an excellent vantage point for viewing of the formation behind the aircraft

My grandfather was one of those men. Stationed in Foggia, he flew as a tail gunner in the 15th Army Air Force, specifically in the 772nd Squadron. He fought in “the 463rd Bomb Group – including the 772nd, 773rd, 774th and 775th Squadrons – who, during World War II helped liberate Europe and defeat the worldwide threat of fascism”. The victory of the Allied powers in World War II is due to many men and women who fought courageously to overcome the Axis powers. Having done extensive research and learning about men like my grandfather I realize how much the Air Force contributed in World War II. I truly feel that “all WWII Veterans . . .but most importantly the men of the 463rd Bomb Group, 15th Air Force, the greatest Flyers of their time” boldly brought the Allied cause to victory.

1 posted on 10/07/2003 11:59:57 PM PDT by SAMWolf
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To: snippy_about_it; PhilDragoo; Johnny Gage; Victoria Delsoul; Darksheare; Valin; bentfeather; radu; ..
Life as a Prisoner of War


My grandfather, Charles Anderson, did not talk much about the war, and he certainly refrained from talking about his experience as a prisoner of war. My mother, aunts, and uncle had very little information about this particular area of their father’s life. This made me a little frustrated because, out of his time in the military, I especially wanted to explore his experiences as a POW. Nonetheless, I have learned about his time in POW camps the best way I could. I learned about several men who not only served in the Army Air Force, but also were POWs during World War II.


StalagLuft 4


“World War II in Europe saw an enormous number of soldiers, sailors, and airmen fall into their enemy’s captivity”. More Americans became POWs during World War II than in any other war involving the United States. More specifically, there was over ten times the number of American POWs during WWII at 130,201 than in every other war (concerning America) combined at 12,056 (“American Prisoners of War”). These statistics certainly have great importance, but as I read the individual stories of so many men, numbers began to seem very insignificant. Numbers are so cold and unemotional; they do not tell stories and experiences. A story is more significant than a number.

Although I came across countless stories of American prisoners of war, I chose to focus on three men whose military experience appears very similar to my grandfather’s. These men include James Dowling, Joseph P. O’Donnell, and Lloyd Kilmer. All three served in the Army Air Force during World War II. Dowling served in the 445th Air Wing of the 8th Air Force. Kilmer, also in the 8th Air Force, was a B-24 pilot in the 448th Bomb Group, Squadron 712 in the 2nd Air Division. The 8th Air Force, stationed in England, was very close to the 15th Air Force (located in Foggia, Italy), in which my grandfather operated. Joseph O’Donnell also flew in the 15th Air Force, 483rd Bomb Group, 815th Bomb Squadron. I chose to write about these men because they all served in the Air Force and became POWs; their stories must somewhat resemble my grandfather’s.


"Roll Call- at a StalagLuft


Many parts of the men’s stories are quite alike. Each of their crews got shot down while operating bombing missions to Germany. O’Donnell’s crew was actually bombing the aircraft factory in Wiener Neustad, Austria, where my grandfather was first brought after being captured as a POW. Germans eventually captured the men after each of them bailed out of their respective crash. Joseph O’Donnell saw trees and rocks as he descended after his bailout. He thought about the little training he had gotten and remembered he needed to keep his legs crossed if he thought he would land in a tree. He ended up landing in some bushes, but I wonder if my grandfather’s thoughts resembled O’Donnell’s after he bailed out, as he did land in a tree. After his crash, O’Donnell came upon a freshly plowed field while deciding his best route to escape, but was detected by a German plane. A short time later he found a German soldier waiting for him.

After his crash, James Dowling reunited with his crewmembers only to be captured. They then loaded into boxcars for a ride to a POW camp. Riding in the boxcars seems to be an experience every prisoner of war went through. This is actually one of the situations my grandfather survived that I actually have knowledge about. My grandfather told about how the POWs were bombed by their own men while stuck in the boxcars. This is something that Dowling also experienced. On a long 300-mile ride he and fellow POWs experienced bombing by U.S. planes. Unaware that Americans were in the boxcars, the U.S. bombed them. O’Donnell also noted that they had no food, water, or toilet facilities in the crowded boxcars.



After riding in the boxcars, but before they “settled” into camp, prisoners of war faced interrogation. During interrogation, POWs were threatened if they did not supply information. O’Donnell received a right hand chop to his ear because he would only give his name, rank, and serial number. Later he was asked to provide some maps he had in exchange for food. He eventually surrendered the maps when the Germans threatened to shoot him.

Lloyd Kilmer also tells an interesting story of his interrogation experience. Kept in solitary confinement for days, he refused to repeat more than his name, rank, and serial number (like O’Donnell). As a result of his “stubbornness,” the Germans pressed him at gunpoint for information concerning the 8th Air Force. When he declined to inform them, a German officer came to have a word with him. He decided that because Kilmer would not disclose anything, he would show him what they knew. The officer proceeded to show a book with information regarding Kilmer’s bomb squadron, bombing reports, and biographies of the crewmembers. He said to Kilmer, “You think we’re pretty smart, don’t you? We know ninety-five percent of what’s going on in the American Armed Forces. However, your government knows ninety-seven percent of what’s going on in the German Armed Forces”. Hearing these stories, I cannot imagine what my grandfather encountered, especially because he never talked about it.



My grandfather did comment a little about how the Air Force men were despised by civilians outside camps. Because of this, the airmen were not allowed to do forced labor outside camp. This is something that O’Donnell recounts. After his interrogation, a truck with a German guard took him to the camp. He told the guard that he did not need to be guarded; that he would not escape. The guard replied that he did not guard him from escape, but from the civilians. He said if civilians found out that he was an airman they would hang him without question because he had just destroyed their town and killed their families. Joined by other airmen on a train in Vienna, they experienced this hatred first-hand. He said, “they knew we were air corp and violently vented their anger. Fortunately for us, their only weapon were a swift kick, a deliberate punch, or a wad of well aimed spit in the face” Any time air corp POWs went outside the camp, they would be subjected to this abuse.

Though they could not participate in forced labor, POWs did not have an easy life in the camps. My grandfather never talked much about it, and I could not find very much on the life inside the camps. However, Kilmer is one of the few former POWs who did talk a little about life in camp. He remembers how he watched many other inmates get shot when they attempted to escape. He also comments on how the meals only included watery cabbage or turnip soup, and they spent cold nights with only a thin blanket. He lost sixty pounds in his time at camp.



These men merely survived in camps until the end of the war. Only Kilmer commented on his experience at the end of the war, and I took great interest in that part of his story. When the war ended, he resided in Moosburg Stalag 7A, the same place my grandfather was at the end of the war. On April 29, 1945 Kilmer attended a POW church service when the men heard an explosion of small arms fire. Soon a U.S. tank came through the German barbed wire. Their time at camp was over! He told about the wonderful sight when the American flag replaced the Swastika. I really enjoyed reading his story about April 29, because I just cannot help but imagine this is possibly the sight that my grandfather saw that day.

James Dowling, Lloyd Kilmer, and Joseph O’Donnell have brought my family and me a gift without even knowing. As I read each man’s story with great interest, it gave me insight into a piece of what my grandfather may have gone through. He did not speak much about life as a prisoner of war, but I cannot help think it had a tremendous affect on him. Through these men I have taken bits and pieces of their stories, and imagined what he must have experienced. It is truly fulfilling just to know a little more about what he faced, and I have been granted that through these men’s stories.

Additional Sources:

www.thehewitt.net
mywebpages.comcast.net/abner00
www.wpafb.af.mil
www.381st.org
www.bibl.u-szeged.hu
www.thebattlezone.com
www.armyairforces.com
www.west.net/~awon

2 posted on 10/08/2003 12:00:29 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: All


The 15th Air Force patch consists of a blue disc and a white star charged with a red disc in the center and with golden orange stylized wings below a golden orange Arabic numeral "I5", all within a golden orange amulet. (Approved 19 Feb 1944.)

Constituted as the Fifteenth Air Force on 30 Oct 1943, and activated in the Mediterranean theater on 1 Nov 1943, the 15th began operations on 2 Nov 1943 and engaged primarily in strategic bombardment of targets in Italy, France, Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Austria, Hungary, and the Balkans until the end of the war.

The 15th was deactivated in Italy on 15 Sep 1945, and activated again in the US on 31 Mar 1946. Assigned to Strategic Air Command.

WINGS include
  • 5th Bombardment: 1943-1945.
  • 42d Bombardment: 1943.
  • 47th Bombardment: 1944-1945.
  • 49th Bombardment: 1944-1945.
  • 55th Bombardment: 1944-1945.
  • 304th Bombardment: 1943-1945.
  • 305th Bombardment: 1943-1945.
  • 306th Fighter: 1944-1945.
  • 307th Bombardment: 1944.


STATIONS included
  • Tunis, Tunisia, 1 Nov 1943;
  • Bari, Italy, 1 Dec 1943-15 Sep 1945.
  • Colorado Springs, Colo, 31 Mar 1946.


COMMANDERS included
  • Maj Gen James H Doolittle, 1 Nov 1943;
  • Maj Gen Nathan F Twining, 3 Jan 1944;
  • Brig Gen James A Mollison, 26 May 1945;
  • Brig Gen William L Lee, 3 Aug 1945;
  • Col Elmer J Rogers Jr, 31 Aug-15 Sep 1945.
  • Maj Gen Charles F Born, 31 Mar 1946.


CAMPAIGNS included Air Combat,
  • EAME Theater;
  • Air Offensive, Europe;
  • Naples-Foggia;
  • Anzio;
  • Rome-Arno;
  • Normandy;
  • Northern France;
  • Southern France;
  • North Apennines;
  • Rhineland;
  • Central Europe;
  • Po Valley.


3 posted on 10/08/2003 12:00:49 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: All

4 posted on 10/08/2003 12:01:18 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: All
Donate to Free Republic, and Save Larry The Lobster!!!

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5 posted on 10/08/2003 12:04:01 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; bentfeather; Darksheare; All
Good morning everyone!

To all our service men and women, past and present, THANK YOU for serving!


6 posted on 10/08/2003 12:29:59 AM PDT by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: radu
Morning Radu. First one in today.
7 posted on 10/08/2003 12:31:16 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: SAMWolf
Mornin' SAM.

First one in today.

Does this mean I get the "early bird" award? LOL!

GACK!! The thought makes me glad I'm a vegetarian! ROTFLOL!

8 posted on 10/08/2003 12:39:43 AM PDT by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: mark502inf; bedolido; The Mayor; Prof Engineer; PsyOp; Samwise; comitatus; copperheadmike; ...
.......FALL IN to the FReeper Foxhole!

.......Good Wednesday Morning Everyone!


If you would like added to our ping list let us know.
9 posted on 10/08/2003 3:19:56 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: radu
Good morning radu.
10 posted on 10/08/2003 3:29:12 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
ooo, B-17's. Now there's an airplane!!
11 posted on 10/08/2003 3:35:37 AM PDT by Prof Engineer (HHD - That's not noise son...It's the Sound of Freedom! ___ 5/14/04 Baby Moot '04)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good morning, Snippy and everyone at the Freeper Foxhole.

Folks, be sure to update your anti-virsu software and get the very latest critical updates for your computer.

12 posted on 10/08/2003 3:40:23 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: SAMWolf
bump
13 posted on 10/08/2003 4:06:52 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: snippy_about_it

14 posted on 10/08/2003 4:08:40 AM PDT by The Mayor (I asked God for a friend, He gave me all of YOU...)
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To: SAMWolf

Today's classic warship, USS Kearsarge (BB-5)

Kearsarge class battleship
displacement. 11,540
length. 375'4"
beam. 72'3"
draft. 23'6"
speed. 16 k.
complement. 553
armament. 4 13"'; 4 8", 14 6", 20 6-pdr., 8 1-pdr., 4 .30 cal.

The USS Kearsarge, named by act of Congress to commemorate the famed steam sloop-of-war, was launched 24 March 1898 by the Newport News Shipbuilding Co., Newport News, Va.; sponsored by Mrs. Herbert Winslow, daughter-in-law of the former USS Kearsarge's commander, Captain John A. Winslow, during her famous battle with CSS Alabama; and commissioned 20 February 1900, Captain William M. Folger in command.

Kearsarge became flagship of the North Atlantic Station, cruising down the Atlantic seaboard and in the Caribbean. From 3 June 1903 to 26 July 1903 she served briefly as flagship of the European Squadron while on a cruise that took her first to Kiel, Germany. She was visited by the German Emperor 26 June 1903 and by the Prince of Wales 13 July. She returned to Bar Harbor, Maine, 26 July 1903 and resumed duties as flagship of the North Atlantic Fleet. She sailed from New York 1 December 1903 for Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where, on 10 December, the United States took formal possession of the Guantanamo Naval Reservation. Following maneuvers in the Caribbean, she led the North Atlantic Battleship Squadron to Lisbon where she entertained the King of Portugal, 11 June 1904. She next steamed to Phaleron Bay, Greece, where she celebrated the Fourth of July with the King, Prince Andrew, Princess Alice of Greece. The squadron paid goodwill calls at Corfu, Trieste, and Fiume before returning to Newport, R.I., 29 August 1904.

Kearsarge remained flagship of the North Atlantic Fleet until relieved 31 March by battleship Maine, but continued operations with the fleet. During target practice off Cape Cruz, Cuba, 13 April 1906, an accidental ignition of a powder charge of a 13-inch gun killed two officers and eight men. Four men were seriously injured.

Attached to the 2d Squadron, 4th Division, she sailed 16 December 1907 with the "Great White Fleet" of battleships, sent around the world by President Theodore Roosevelt. She sailed from Hampton Roads around the coasts of South America to the Western seaboard, thence to Hawaii, Australia, New Zealand, the Philippines, and Japan. From there, Kearsarge proceeded to Ceylon, transited the Suez Canal, and visited ports of the Mediterranean, before returning to the eastern seaboard of the United States. President Theodore Roosevelt reviewed the Fleet as it passed into the Hampton Roads 22 February 1909, having completed a world cruise of overwhelming success, showing the flag and spreading good will. This dramatic gesture impressed the world with the power of the U.S. Navy.

Kearsarge decommissioned in the Philadelphia Navy Yard 4 September 1909 for modernization. She recommissioned 23 June 1915 for operations along the Atlantic coast until 17 September when she departed Philadelphia to land a detachment of marines at Vera Cruz, Mexico. She remained off Vera Cruz from 28 September 1915 to 5 January 1916, then carried the marines to New Orleans before joining the Atlantic Reserve Fleet 4 February 1916 at Philadelphia. She trained Massachusetts and Maine State Naval Militia until America entered World War I, then trained thousands of armed guard crews as well as naval engineers in waters along the East Coast ranging from Boston to Pensacola. On the evening of 18 August 1918, Kearsarge rescued 26 survivors of Norwegian Bark Nordhav which had been sunk by German Submarine U-117. The survivors were landed in Boston.

Kearsarge continued as engineering training ship until 29 May 1919 when she embarked Naval Academy Midshipmen for training in the west Indies. The midshipmen were debarked at Annapolis 29 August and Kearsarge proceeded to the Philadelphi a Navy Yard, where she decommissioned 10 May 1920 for conversion to a crane ship and a new career. She was designated AB-1 5 August 1920.

In place of military trappings, Kearsarge received an immense revolving crane with a rated lifting capacity of 250 tons, as well as hull "blisters," which gave her more stability. The 10,000-ton craneship rendered invaluable service for the next 20 years. One of many accomplishments was the raising of sunken submarine SQUALUS off the New Hampshire coast. On 6 November 1941 she designated Crane Ship No. 1, giving up her illustrious name which was assigned to a mighty aircraft carrier. But she continued her yeoman service and made many contributions to the American victories of World War II. She handled guns, turrets, armor and other heavy lifts for new battleships such as Indiana and Alabama; cruisers Savannah and Chicago; and guns on the veteran battleship Pennsylvania.

In 1945 the crane ship was towed to the San Francisco Naval Shipyard where she assisted in the construction of carriers Hornet, Boxer, and Saratoga. She departed the west Coast in 1948 to finish her career in the Boston Naval Shipyard. Joe McDonald, master rigger, described her as "a big gray hulk of a thing" which was "pulled around by two or three tugs" on the job; "But the old girl has brought millions of dollars worth of business to Boston. Without her we would never have been able to do many of the big jobs, that cost billions of dollars." As one example, he recalled that the former battleship lifted a gantry crane intact at the South Boston Naval Drydocks and transported it to Charleston where she placed it on crane tracks to be driven away. As Crane Ship No. 1, her name was struck from the Navy List 22 June 1955. She was sold for scrapping 9 August 1955.


15 posted on 10/08/2003 4:22:41 AM PDT by aomagrat (IYAOYAS)
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To: Prof Engineer
LOL. oooo is right. I saw my first one up close a few months ago, they are huge and and what a good looking plane!

Good morning.
16 posted on 10/08/2003 4:52:50 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: E.G.C.
Good morning EGC.

Thank you for the reminder. Thanks to you it is a habit now.
17 posted on 10/08/2003 4:53:51 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: The Mayor
Good morning Mayor. I see they got rid of Davis last night. Now let's see what Arnold does with California. Gotta be better. LOL.
18 posted on 10/08/2003 4:55:06 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Present!
19 posted on 10/08/2003 4:59:58 AM PDT by manna
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To: aomagrat
Good morning aomagrat.

The Kearsarge name seems to be a ship name we read a lot about throughout the Foxhole threads. Kearsarge is at least is the most familiar name to me that we seem to keep coming acrosss, from the sloop to the aircraft carrier.
20 posted on 10/08/2003 5:00:33 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
I agree, even though I would have voted McClintock the voters have spoken loud and clear..
21 posted on 10/08/2003 5:01:25 AM PDT by The Mayor (I asked God for a friend, He gave me all of YOU...)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Good morning WhiskeyPapa.
22 posted on 10/08/2003 5:04:04 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: manna
Good morning manna.
23 posted on 10/08/2003 5:04:23 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: The Mayor
Me too! McClintock seemed to be the best choice. Of course not being in California I only paid slight attention to it.
24 posted on 10/08/2003 5:05:51 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
I'm in.
*Spring-Gabooooing!*
25 posted on 10/08/2003 5:11:42 AM PDT by Darksheare (This tagline exploits horrible horrible things that are unmentionably unmentionable, like this spot)
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To: Darksheare
Good morning Darksheare. I'm so happy to see you bouncing around this morning.
26 posted on 10/08/2003 5:44:28 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Always in motion.
27 posted on 10/08/2003 5:56:28 AM PDT by Darksheare (This tagline exploits horrible horrible things that are unmentionably unmentionable, like this spot)
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To: SAMWolf
On This Day In History


Birthdates which occurred on October 08:
1810 James Wilson Marshall, discoverer of gold in California.
1869 J Frank Duryea inventor (1st auto built & operated in the US)
1872 John Cowper Powys British writer (Wood & Stone)
1873 Ejnar Hertzsprung Denmark, astronomer (Hertzsprung-Russell diagram)
1890 Eddie Rickenbacker aviator "Ace of Aces" (WW I)
1895 Juan Per¢n Argentine Pres (1946-55, 1973-74)
1895 King Zog I of Albania (1928-1939)
1897 Rouben Mamoulian movie director/author (Mark of Zorro, Applause)
1903 Lina Radke Germany, 800m runner (Olympic-gold-1928)
1909 Bill Hewitt NFL end (Chicago Bears, Phila Eagles)
1916 Spark Matsunaga (D-Ha-Sen)
1917 Danny Murtaugh baseball manager (Pittsburgh Pirates)
1920 Frank Herbert sci-fi writer (Dune)
1920 Maxie Herber Germany, figure skater pairs (Olympic-gold-1936)
1920 Ron Randell Sydney Australia, actor (Loves of Carmen, I am a Camera)
1924 Arkady Vorobyev Middle heavyweight (Olympic-gold-1956, 60)
1927 Gigi Durston Balt Md, singer (Sonny Kendis Show)
1927 Torbj”rn Falkanger Norway, took Olympic oath (1952)
1930 James Olsen actor (Andromeda Strain, The Spell)
1930 Toru Takemitsu Tokyo Japan, composer (Ki No Kyoko)
1934 J Carter Brown Providence RI, art director (Wash National Gallery)
1936 David Carradine Hollywood, actor (Kung-Fu, Boxcar Bertha, Young Guns)
1936 Rona Barrett NYC, gossip columnist (Tomorrow Show)
1938 Penny Pitou US, skier (Olympic-2 silvers-1960)
1939 Paul Hogan Australia, actor (Crocodile Dundee)
1941 Jesse Jackson (D) clergyman/presidential candidate
1943 Chevy Chase NYC, comedian/actor (SNL, Vacation, Fletch, Caddyshack)
1946 Aleksandr Gorshlov ice dancer (holds 6 titles)
1948 Sarah Purcell Richmond Ind, actress/TV hostess (Real People)
1949 Sigourney [Susan Alexandra] Weaver LA, actress (Alien, Working Girl)
1950 Robert "Kool" Bell rocker (Kool & the Gang-Joanna)
1951 Johnny Ramone LI, rock guitarist (Road to Ruin)
1955 Bill Elliott auto racer (Daytona-1978)
1956 Scott Michael Pellaton barefoot water ski champ
1956 Stephanie Zimbalist NYC, actress (Remington Steele, Centennial)
1957 James DePaiva actor (Max-One Life to Live)
1959 Tony Eason football quarterback (New England Patriots)
1979 [Gregory] Chad Petree Shawne Okla, rocker (PC Quest-Can You See)



Deaths which occurred on October 08:
0705 Abd al-Malik, kalief of Damascus, dies
1793 John Hancock, US merchant/signer (Declaration of Independence), dies at 56
1869 Franklin Pierce 14th president of US, dies in Concord, NH
1944 Wendell Lewis Willkie Republican politician, dies
1964 Dr Charles Hodge NYU professor (Answers for Americans), dies at 69
1967 Clement R Attlee, premier of Great Britain (1945-51), dies at 84
1969 Eduardo Ciannelli actor (Waldo-Johnny Staccato), dies at 81
1978 Karl Swenson actor (Lara-Little House on the Prairie), dies at 70
1982 Fernando Lamas actor/director, dies at 67 of cancer
1983 Joan Hackett actress, dies of cancer at 49
1984 Frederick Brisson producer, dies at 71 after a stroke
1985 Leon Klinghoffer hijackers of Achille Lauro, throw him off the boat
1992 Willy Brandt, chancellor of W Germany (1969-74), dies of cancer at 78



Reported: MISSING in ACTION

1963 DENTON MANUEL R. KERRVILLE TX.
[ACFT CRASH AFT AIR COLLISION]
1963 RITCHEY LUTHER E. JR. MANSFIELD OH.
[ACFT CRASH AFT AIR COLLISION]
1963 WADSWORTH DEAN AMICK CLARENDON TX.
[ACFT BROKE UP CRASH EXPLODED, REMAINS IDENTIFIED O4/16/99]
1966 FELDHAUS JOHN ANTHONY LAWRENCEBURG TN.
1966 WOMACK SAMMIE N. FARMVILLE VA.
[02/23/67 RELEASED, ALIVE IN 98]
1967 GUERRA RAUL A. LOS ANGELES CA.
[CRASH SITE CONFIRMED NO RECOV POSS]
1967 PINEAU ROLAND R. BERKLEY MI.
[CRASH SITE CONFIRMED NO RECOV POSS]
1967 ROGGOW NORMAN L. AURELIA IA.
[CRASH SITE CONFIRMED NO RECOV POSS]
1967 WOLFE DONALD F. HARDIN MT.
[CRASH SITE CONFIRMED NO RECOV POSS]
1967 ZISSU ANDREW G. NEW YORK NY.
[CRASH SITE CONFIRMED NO RECOV POSS]
1969 ALTIZER ALBERT H. SQUIRE WV.
1969 WATKINS ROBERT J. JR. FORT MEADE MD.
1970 OTT WILLIAM A. LIVERMORE CA.
1970 SHAY DONALD E. JR. LINTHICUM HEIGHTS MD.

POW / MIA Data & Bios supplied by
the P.O.W. NETWORK. Skidmore, MO. USA.


On this day...
451 Council of Chalcedon (4th ecumenical council) opens
0876 Battle at Andernach: Louis the Young beats Charles the Bare
1604 The supernova called "Kepler's nova" is 1st sighted
1690 Belgrade is retaken by the Turks
1806 British forces lay siege to French port of Boulogne using Congreve rockets, invented by Sir William Congreve
1871 The Great Chicago Fire begins in southwest Chicago, possibly in a barn owned by Patrick and Katherine O'Leary. Fanned by strong southwesterly winds, the flames raged for more than 24 hours, eventually leveling three and a half square miles and wiping out one-third of the city. Approximately 250 people were killed in the fire;
1775 Officers decide to bar slaves & free blacks from Continental Army
1818 2 English boxers are 1st to use padded gloves
1822 1st eruption of Galunggung (Java) sends boiling sludge into valley
1840 1st Hawaiian constitution proclaimed
1860 Telegraph line between LA & SF opens
1862 Otto von Bismarck becomes German republic chancellor
1862 Battle of Perryville, KY-Confederate invasion halted
1865 Earthquake in Santa Cruz Mountains
1896 Dow Jones starts reporting an average of industrial stocks.
1871 Great Fire kills 200, destroys over 4ýmiles (10 kmý) of Chicago buildings, & original Emancipation Proclamation
1886 Start of the Sherlock Holmes adventure "The Noble Bachelor" (BG)
1887 Phillies set club record 16th straight victory
1896 Dow Jones starts reporting an average of industrial stocks
1919 Congress passed the Volstead Act named for Representative Andrew Volsted of Minnesota, it enforced the ban on the sale or consumption of alcoholic beverages.
1904 1st Vanderbilt Cup auto race (Hicksville, Long Island, NY)
1906 Karl Nessler demonstrates 1st 'permanent wave' for hair, in London
1909 Chicago Cubs beat NY Giants 4-2 in a playoff to win NL pennant
1912 1st Balkan War begins
1915 Phillies win their 1st & only World Series (World Series #12) game before 1980, beating Red Sox, 3-1, with an 8th inning 2 run rally
1918 Sgt Alvin York single-handedly kills 25, captures 132 Germans
1922 NY Giants beat Yankees, 4 games to 0, with a tie in 19th World Series
1927 NY Yankees sweep Pirates in 24th World Series
1928 Eastern Soccer League forms in US
1930 Phila A's beat St Louis Cards, 4 games to 2 in 27th World Series
1933 Coit Tower dedicated in SF, a monument to firefighters
1934 Bruno Hauptmann is indicted for murder of Lindbergh's son
1935 Ozzie Nelson marries Harriet Hilliard (Ozzie & Harriet)
1939 Germany annexes Western Poland
1939 NY Yankees sweep Reds in 36th World Series, 4th straight WS win
1940 Cin Reds beat Detroit Tigers, 4 games to 3, in 37th World Series
1944 "Adventures of Ozzie & Harriet" debut on CBS radio
1945 Truman announced atomic bomb secret shared with Britain & Canada
1951 Ford C Frick replaces Happy Chandler as 3rd commissioner of baseball
1951 Warren C Giles becomes president of baseball's National League
1952 2 trains collide with a derailed commuter train, kills 112 (England)
1953 Birmingham Alabama, bars Jackie Robinson's Negro-White All-Stars from playing there - Robinson gives in & drops white players from his group
1955 Worlds most powerful aircraft carrier, Saratoga (US), launched
1956 Don Larsen, NY, pitches only perfect world series game, vs Brooklyn (World Series #53)
1957 Brooklyn Dodgers announce move to Los Angeles
1957 Turkish & Syrian border guards exchange fire
1959 LA Dodgers beat Chicago White Sox, 4 games to 2 in 56th World Series
1960 Bobby Richarson hits a world series grand slammer (World Series #57)
1962 Algeria admitted as 109th member of the UN
1962 N Korea reports 100% election turnout, 100% vote for Workers' Party
1963 Sultan of Zanzibar cedes his mainland possessions to Kenya
1964 Gilroy Roberts becomes 1st US chief engraver to retire (than die)
1964 Ringo Starr takes & passes his driving test
1966 Wyoming's Jerry DePoyster kicks 3 field goals over 50 yds (54, 54, 52)
1968 U.S. forces in Vietnam launch Operation Sealord, an attack on North Vietnamese supply lines and base areas
1970 Soviet author Alexander I Solzhenitsyn awarded Nobel Prize for Lit
1971 John Lennon releases his megahit "Imagine"
1977 Largest baseball crowd in Penns, 64,924 see Dodgers beat Phillies 4-1 in 4th NL championship game (Dodgers win pennant)
1978 Ken Warby set the world water speed record at 319.627 mph
1978 Kenneth Warby sets world speed record on water (514 kph)
1978 Yanks win 3rd straight AL Championship, all against Kansas City
1980 British Leyland starts selling Mini Metro
1981 USAC appeals panel restores disputed Indy 500 victory to Al Unser
1981 Pres Reagan greeted predecessors Jimmy Carter, Gerald R Ford & Richard Nixon before sending them to Egypt for Anwar Sadat's funeral
1982 NJ Devils 1st victory, beating NY Rangers 3-2 at the Meadowlands
1982 Poland bans Solidarity
1983 1st regular season Islander OT game beat Caps 8-7
1983 Washington Capitals 1st NHL overtime game losing to NY Islanders 8-7
1986 Mike Scott ties playoff record of 14 strikeouts, beats Mets 1-0
1988 Fire in Seattle's Space Needle causes evacuation, $2,000 damage
1990 Israeli police kill 17 Palestinian rioters
1990 US doctors Joseph E Murray & E Donnall Thomas win Nobel Prize
1997 Three years after the death of longtime North Korean ruler Kim Il Sung, his son, Kim Jong Il, officially inherited his father's title of general secretary of the Communist Party.
2001 U.S. transport planes dropped 37,000 meals into areas of Afghanistan where it was feared mass starvation was imminent.
2001 Former Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge was sworn in as director of the new Office of Homeland Security.


Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Western Samoa : White Sunday (2nd Sunday) (Sunday)
Canada : Thanksgiving Day (Monday)
Florida : Farmers' Day (1915) (Monday)
Hawaii : Discoverer's Day (Monday)
US : Columbus Day (1492) (Monday)
Virgin Is & Puerto Rico : Friendship Day (Monday)
National Chimney Sweep Week (Day 4)
International Day for Natural Disaster Reduction
National Pickled Pepper Week (Day 6)
Country Music Month
National Fish and Seafood Month!
National Sarcastics' Awareness Month




Religious Observances
Old Catholic : Feast of St Bridget, widow, patron of Sweden
Christian : Feast of St Keyne, virgin (6th century)
Feast of St. Thais (Greek Church).



Religious History
_451 The Council of Chalcedon opened, near Constantinople. Dealing mainly with the Eutychian Christological heresy, the council created a confession of faith which has ever since been regarded as the highest word in Early Christian orthodoxy.
1901 The American branch of Overseas Missionary Fellowship was chartered. Founded as the China Inland Mission in 1865 by missionary pioneer J. Hudson Taylor, OMF adopted its present name at its centenniel celebration in 1965.
1917 New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary was chartered in New Orleans by P. I. Lipsey. The school opened for its first classes in September 1918.
1924 In New York City, the National Lutheran Conference banned the playing of jazz music in the local churches.
1986 The first North American Congress on the Holy Spirit and World Evangelization opened in New Orleans. It drew 7,000 leaders from 40 denominations, and stressed the part which the charismatic experience plays in evangelization.

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.



Thought for the day :
"The Universe is not only queerer than we imagine, it is queerer than we CAN imagine."


You Might Be a Criminal If...
You think your prison uniform brings out the blue in your eyes.


Murphys Law of the day...(Hellrung's Law)
If you wait, it will go away. (Shevelson's Extension: ... having done its damage.)
[Grelb's Addition: ... if it was bad, it will be back.]



It's a little known fact that...
In the 19th century, craftsmen who made hats were known to be excitable and irrational, as well as to tremble with palsy and mix up their words. Such behavior gave rise to the familiar expression "mad as a hatter". The disorder, called hatter's shakes, was caused by chronic mercury poisoning from the solution used to treat the felt. Attacking the central nervous system, the toxin led to behavioral symptoms.

28 posted on 10/08/2003 6:50:50 AM PDT by Valin (I have my own little world, but it's okay - they know me here.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; radu; Darksheare; All
Good morning everyone in the Fox Hole!!
29 posted on 10/08/2003 7:13:25 AM PDT by Soaring Feather (Poet's Rock the Boat!!)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good morning SNippy.
30 posted on 10/08/2003 7:15:33 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: radu
Do worms count as meat?
31 posted on 10/08/2003 7:15:50 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: E.G.C.
Morning E.G.C. Rainy season is here to stay, I think.
32 posted on 10/08/2003 7:16:42 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Hi WhiskeyPapa. Thanks for the bump.
33 posted on 10/08/2003 7:17:09 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: The Mayor
Hi Mayor.
34 posted on 10/08/2003 7:17:25 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: aomagrat
Morning aomagrat.

The 10,000-ton craneship rendered invaluable service for the next 20 years. One of many accomplishments was the raising of sunken submarine SQUALUS off the New Hampshire coast.

The SQUALUS sinking and rescue was an interesting story, covered very well by Snippy.

35 posted on 10/08/2003 7:20:33 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: manna
Hi Manna!


36 posted on 10/08/2003 7:23:15 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: Darksheare
HI Darksheare! Didin't hurt yourself falling in this morning did you?
37 posted on 10/08/2003 7:26:06 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: SAMWolf
No, but I did bounce around two Zot threads and got a good dose of second hand ozone by way of watching it go up...
*cough*

38 posted on 10/08/2003 7:28:40 AM PDT by Darksheare (This tagline exploits DU gullibility in believing in a Vast Rightwing Conspiracy. Cabal of ONE!)
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To: Valin
1862 Otto von Bismarck becomes German republic chancellor

Germany became the first nation in the world to adopt an old-age social insurance program in 1889, designed by Germany's Chancellor, Otto von Bismarck. The idea was first put forward, at Bismarck's behest, in 1881 by Germany's Emperor, William the First, in a ground-breaking letter to the German Parliament. William wrote: ". . .those who are disabled from work by age and invalidity have a well-grounded claim to care from the state."

Bismarck was motivated to introduce social insurance in Germany both in order to promote the well-being of workers in order to keep the German economy operating at maximum efficiency, and to stave-off calls for more radical socialist alternatives. Despite his impeccable right-wing credentials, Bismarck would be called a socialist for introducing these programs, as would President Roosevelt 70 years later. In his own speech to the Reichstag during the 1881 debates, Bismarck would reply: "Call it socialism or whatever you like. It is the same to me."

The German system provided contributory retirement benefits and disability benefits as well. Participation was mandatory and contributions were taken from the employee, the employer and the government. Coupled with the workers' compensation program established in 1884 and the "sickness" insurance enacted the year before, this gave the Germans a comprehensive system of income security based on social insurance principles. (They would add unemployment insurance in 1927, making their system complete.)

One persistent myth about the German program is that it adopted age 65 as the standard retirement age because that was Bismarck's age. This myth is important because Germany was one of the models America looked to in designing its own Social Security plan; and the myth is that America adopted age 65 as the age for retirement benefits because this was the age adopted by Germany when they created their program. In fact, Germany initially set age 70 as the retirement age (and Bismarck himself was 74 at the time) and it was not until 27 years later (in 1916) that the age was lowered to 65. By that time, Bismarck had been dead for 18 years.

Seems like the Liberals get a lot of their "Socialist" ideas from the Germans

39 posted on 10/08/2003 7:31:27 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: bentfeather
Morning Feather.
40 posted on 10/08/2003 7:31:57 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Practiss makes perfict.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
Morning Glory Snip & Sam~

Wonderful read . . . bring back "12 o'clock High".

41 posted on 10/08/2003 8:00:04 AM PDT by w_over_w (Today is the first day that Grayout Davis begins to disappear like a fart in the wind.)
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To: SAMWolf
Germany became the first nation in the world to adopt an old-age social insurance program in 1889, designed by Germany's Chancellor, Otto von Bismarck.

Something I remeber reading years ago(I forget the source) Bismarck brought together a group of statisticians and asked them when the average worker died. After crunching the numbers the answer they came up with was 64. So old Otto gets up and announces that from now on at age 65 the state will provide a pension to every worker for the rest of his life. And that's why we have 65 as the retirement age.

42 posted on 10/08/2003 8:00:15 AM PDT by Valin (I have my own little world, but it's okay - they know me here.)
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To: SAMWolf
I never knew the tail gunner kneeled. Learn something new everyday.
43 posted on 10/08/2003 8:01:46 AM PDT by Valin (I have my own little world, but it's okay - they know me here.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good morning friend. I will be out of freep range until 20/10/2003 suffering the hardships of Hawaii. One of my granddaughter's was born in Hawaii (mother is Hawaiian). Traditionally, the first birthday is a grand celebration with a sitdown dinner for relatives and friends.

I will be on some today, however, I fly out tomorrow.

When I go to Hawaii, I always spend time at Pearl. Last time there, my son (ex-navy fire controllman on the tomahawk cruise missle) and I toured the Missouri. He took me into where his station would have been and showed me where he would sit. On the keyboard he pointed out a key was covered over with black tape. He told me under the tape, the key said "Authorize Nuclear" (or something similar). He also said it took direct okay from the President and two keys, neither of which he held.

Lord bless you all and keep you safe.

44 posted on 10/08/2003 8:24:12 AM PDT by bedolido (I can forgive you for killing my sons, but I cannot forgive you for forcing me to kill your sons)
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To: SAMWolf
I certainly hope Leslie got an "A."
45 posted on 10/08/2003 8:33:09 AM PDT by Samwise (There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil.)
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To: radu
Love your graphic!
46 posted on 10/08/2003 8:34:46 AM PDT by Samwise (There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil.)
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To: SAMWolf
Good story today SAM. I learned something new.

Oxygen deprivation was a serious problem and was the cause for many aircrew casualties.

I hadn't really thought about that before. Thanks.

47 posted on 10/08/2003 8:39:03 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Skylight
Thank you Skylight. Take pictures! Oh the hardships of Hawaii, LOL. I almost didn't recognize you, still getting used to the new name.

Have a safe trip and we expect a full report when you return, especially about Pearl Harbor.

My mother was a WAVE and stationed at Ford Island during the war as an Aviation Machinist Mate.
48 posted on 10/08/2003 8:42:51 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Since this is a thread about a student paper, is it OK if I brag a little about my favorite student, Samwise Jr.?

Her 6th grade class analyzes the “Quote of the Week,” which appears in the weekly newsletter. Her teacher picks a famous quote, and the students have to write about what it means to them. She came home from school so tickled because the quote of the week was “Some things are worth fighting for no matter what!”

The author--Samwise Jr. Apparently, her teacher played “Have You Forgotten” and the kids had a class discussion about Bush, Iraq, the Left, etc. and Jr. expressed her opinion.
49 posted on 10/08/2003 8:55:45 AM PDT by Samwise (There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil.)
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To: Samwise
That's wonderful. You can brag about her any day here at the Foxhole. She sure is being brought up right!
50 posted on 10/08/2003 9:13:33 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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