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Christian should not be Libertarians.
the Baptist Corpsman | 9 oct 04 | Darren Morrison

Posted on 10/09/2004 6:31:26 AM PDT by RMrattlesnake

Christian should not be Libertarians.

By Darren Morrison

I heard the Libertarian candidate talking on a local radio talk show the other day and because it was a recording from a previous show I could not call in. I was appalled by a caller who claims to be a Christian and perhaps he was. The caller had said that he was a libertarian Christian. I could say you are either one or the other. I know it is impossible for a Christian too be any type of Marxist but a confused or rebellious Christian might be miss lead into the libertarian party. I guess it would be almost like many of my brothers in Christ who are loyal to the Republican Party. I could see a Christian falling for the G.O.P. if he believe the hype and there sales pitch but if you look at there record on the issues you will see that there is a sharp contrast between reality and what they say. So it is more on likely that a miss lead Christian might fall for the G.O.P. than the libertarian party.

I will have to say that in many issues I am on the same page as the liberations. On the surface they look great. But deep down you will find that they are way of base with the position that Christian who love the lord and follow the bible should take. I have never voted for a libertarian candidate ever but I have giving it some thought before. I have even considered joining a few times even after I got right with GOD. And there are a few well meaning Christian who belong to this deceiving party.

There are quite a few reasons why Christian should not belong to the libertarian party. In this day an age there are quite a few people who like to be labeled as Christians. There are so called gay churches but thy are not Christian because repentance is very important to the salvation process as describe in the bible. There are cults who twist scriptures around to suit there false doctrines and they are not Christians as described in the bible. I am talking about true believers her those who believe the bible to be the inerrant word of God those who have accepted God’s free gift of grace. Those true born again believers who follow the word of GOD. Those are the people who I am writing this to. So if you call your self a Christian but to not follow after Christ then this massage is not for you so go back to your local tavern and continue your theological discourse.

Well to start of one very big issue I have with the Libertarians is abortion. Or what is really is infanticide. You see the Libertarian planks do not see anything wrong with murdering an unborn child. If fact they would lift all restriction on abortion making it as easy to get as a loaf of bread. The one thing is they will not make the taxes payer fund this murder. Well even if I do not have to pay for it with my taxes it is still wrong and it is evil. I made a decision and I would recommend any one who loves the lord to make this that is I had said I would never vote for anyone who would allow infanticide to go on. If there are only two candidates on a ballot of any office and both were in favor of abortion I can not in good conscience vote for either one. Anyone who signs on to the Libertarian party as a candidate has to support the planks of the Libertarian party. You see I believe if by some how a libertarian could ever get the chance to run this county and was able to push the Libertarian ideas though abortion would and the very least double may ever triple. So the Libertarian party is in favor of killing babies, even more than democrats.

Number two in my great reason Christian should not be Libertarians. Is in the idea of Parental rights. I read in amazing disbelieve when it can to religious freedoms and the family two issues the Libertarians say they support. But in there planks it says that a parent cannot force their children to attend church. You see they have rights for children. Well I am against abusing children like beating then and such but in my house my children have to go to church they are not given any choose in the matter. Until they are 18 and out of my house they do not have religious freedom. The only choose my children have are the once I give then and they mature and show responsibility there earn more freedom. But this concept and parental right is alien to Libertarians. My son gets good grades, loves sports, hates drugs and has never used any. And he goes to church every time we go and he has no choose in the matter. I guess on that issue alone I would riot in a Libertarian jail before I would give my kid a choose to go to church or not.

An other issue and I will borrow a phrase from Michael Savage a radio talk show host out of northern California. The phrase is “Borders language and culture. The three defining thing in any nation and people to ever live. I am American I am native to this great nation born here raised her and I am raising my children her as well. Libertarians want to open our borders to pull all securities to let every person seeking America to drive down wages and bring in crime. Not to mention open the floodgates to Muslim terrorist to come in and open jihad every were in our country reducing this nation to ruble in no time at all. Our borders are already a problem now, imagine them being left unguarded. Are way of life would soon be only a memory.

But I have meet hundreds of Libertarians though out the years and I might say that for the most part they are descent people. But some of the most anti-Christian vile people I have ever met in my life have also been Libertarians. There are tons of gay activist who are Libertarians. Do you think and God fearing Christian should stand beside any sodomites on any cause. The Libertarians are full of drug users, and atheist. If you use drugs and want to do so openly then the Libertarian party is for you.

You see some of the biggest enemies of believers are involved with the Libertarians so don’t trust them. The Marxists, who are the biggest threat to believers on the earth today, are also enemies to the Libertarians. They are also enemies with the United Nation the most anti-Christian origination in the world. So in that way if you believe “my enemy of my enemy is my friends” then Libertarians can be allies to believers but don’t turn your back on them remember who they are as well.

There are three types of Christian in this world those are Christian in name only, those who are in apostasy and those who are true to the word of God our at least strive to be so. Out of those three types of people who label them selves at Christian the latter of those I listed have no business belong to the devils crowd. I am a member of the Constitution party I encourage you to check that party out. But you pray read your King James Bible and decide for your self. I know a lot of good Christian who belong to the GOP my wife is one of them, but what ever you do remember who you vote for should up hold your values and if they don’t do you really want to vote for them.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 10/09/2004 6:31:26 AM PDT by RMrattlesnake
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To: RMrattlesnake

Bible believing Christians as defined by the author ("those who are true to the word of God our at least strive to be so") number something less than 5%-10% (my guesstimate) of the US population. In our democratic republic, they had better learn to make allies if they want to influence policy. You can disagree with a person without making it a point to piss them off, and you can certainly work together with them on areas of common interest (and should if you want to get anything done). Certain sects (for instance the Amish), don't do politics at all.


2 posted on 10/09/2004 6:40:01 AM PDT by RKV ( He who has the guns, makes the rules)
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To: RMrattlesnake
Not a real firm grasp of the English language here, eh?
3 posted on 10/09/2004 7:20:12 AM PDT by blues_guitarist (Black conservatives arise!)
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To: RMrattlesnake
The problem I have seen with so-called Libertarians is they all too often appease, excuse and even encourage liberals on far too many occasions and issues.
4 posted on 10/09/2004 7:50:45 AM PDT by Dave Hamilton
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian

ping for your analysis


5 posted on 10/09/2004 8:38:52 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proudly Supporting BUSH/CHENEY 2004!)
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To: xzins
Here's my analysis:

I don't think Christianity and the Libertarian Party's principles are compatible. Libertarianism is all about how the government either should not, or cannot, legislate certain things, such as abortion, drugs, etc.

Romans 13, however, clearly says that the government is invested with the authority to legislate as it sees fit, and we must obey them. I believe, since the government is God's vice-regent on Earth, it is precisely their job to legislate morality.

6 posted on 10/09/2004 8:45:09 AM PDT by jude24 (sola gratia)
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To: RMrattlesnake; jude24; xzins; OrthodoxPresbyterian

I guess I'll have to disagree with my brother Baptist on this one. I find that Libertarianism is the most consistent political philosophy with Christianity.


7 posted on 10/09/2004 10:14:24 AM PDT by ksen (*blink* *blink*)
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To: RMrattlesnake
You see the Libertarian planks do not see anything wrong with murdering an unborn child. If fact they would lift all restriction on abortion making it as easy to get as a loaf of bread.

Really? The platform is very vague on this position. It states that Libertarians of good faith are on both sides of this issue. The only thing they want is the federal government out of the decision and no forcing someone to pay for another's abortion.

What have we been fighting for as Christian conservatives? To get the issue away from the federal government, out of the courts, and back to the states, and to cease forcing people to pay for another's abortion.

That sounds pretty similar to the Libertarian position to me.

8 posted on 10/09/2004 10:22:33 AM PDT by ksen (*blink* *blink*)
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To: RMrattlesnake
So the Libertarian party is in favor of killing babies, even more than democrats.

I guess if you're gonna lie, might as well make it a big one.

I see the author isn't as against bearing false witness as he is against abortion.

9 posted on 10/09/2004 10:24:44 AM PDT by ksen (*blink* *blink*)
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To: RMrattlesnake

Do you ever get tired of writing these foot-in-mouth essays and looking the fool?


10 posted on 10/09/2004 10:28:18 AM PDT by Pahuanui (When a foolish man hears of the Tao, he laughs out loud)
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To: RMrattlesnake
But in there planks it says that a parent cannot force their children to attend church.

Here is what the platform actually says:

This statement does not say that parents can't make their kids go to church with them. It says that parents can't force their kids to be Christian, Buddhist, or whatever.

As a born-again believer the author ought to know that no one can be forced into the faith.

11 posted on 10/09/2004 10:31:01 AM PDT by ksen (*blink* *blink*)
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To: RMrattlesnake
But I have meet hundreds of Libertarians though out the years and I might say that for the most part they are descent people. But some of the most anti-Christian vile people I have ever met in my life have also been Libertarians. There are tons of gay activist who are Libertarians. Do you think and God fearing Christian should stand beside any sodomites on any cause. The Libertarians are full of drug users, and atheist. If you use drugs and want to do so openly then the Libertarian party is for you.

You see some of the biggest enemies of believers are involved with the Libertarians so don’t trust them. The Marxists, who are the biggest threat to believers on the earth today, are also enemies to the Libertarians. They are also enemies with the United Nation the most anti-Christian origination in the world. So in that way if you believe “my enemy of my enemy is my friends” then Libertarians can be allies to believers but don’t turn your back on them remember who they are as well.

The same can be said for both political parties. The same can also be said most churches and religious organizations as well.

So now what? Pull out of everything?

This guy's article makes no sense and just serves to allow people who actually know what they are talking about to ridicule us Baptist's even more. Thanks a lot.

12 posted on 10/09/2004 10:36:47 AM PDT by ksen (*blink* *blink*)
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To: RMrattlesnake
At the very least, he needs to get a better grasp of English, and spelling. Beyond that, he's typical of most narrow-minded, opinionated Christians (and I use that term loosely). I thought I was reading something written in the 1920's or 30's.

The writer is a twit.

13 posted on 10/09/2004 10:51:51 AM PDT by nobdysfool (Faith in Christ is the evidence of God's choosing, not the cause of it.)
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To: RMrattlesnake; OrthodoxPresbyterian; A.J.Armitage
Darren, Darren, you so dissappoint me...i presume that you ARE the Darren Morrisson of this article, as you've never denied it in the past when the question was raised.

Where to begin?...OK, First off, i strongly recommend that you actually READ what the Libertarian Party actually stands for, and does not stand for, instead of listening to the "Bushbots" here on FR describe it. After that, i strongly recommend that you repent, and apologise for the sin of BEARING FALSE WITNESS against your brethern in Christ who happen to be Libertarian.

You have some studying to do, i strongly recommend that you begin here

14 posted on 10/09/2004 11:06:11 AM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord (I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper)
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To: jude24

There is no decision which cannot be boiled down to an underlying morality. It is, therefore, unwise to offer the blanket statement that government should legislate morality.


15 posted on 10/09/2004 12:20:05 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proudly Supporting BUSH/CHENEY 2004!)
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To: RMrattlesnake

Someone might want to hire a proofreader for this guy.


16 posted on 10/09/2004 12:54:38 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: RMrattlesnake
Of course a Christian can be libertarian and still a Christian. Libertarians believe in free will, as do most orthodox (little 'o') Christians. Libertarians believe in protecting God-given human and civil rights.

Why would one think libertarians can't be Christians? Because they believe in legalizing drugs? Well, that's really no difference in believing alcohol or cigarettes should be legal. All are potential killers and bad for your body and mind.

But a libertarian, like a Christian, believes in free will. It's up to you as a Christian to choose between right and wrong, drugs and sobriety.

Other than that, I cannot see any red-flag reasons why one cannot be Libertarian and Christian at the same time.
17 posted on 10/09/2004 12:59:55 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: jude24
Romans 13, however, clearly says that the government is invested with the authority to legislate as it sees fit, and we must obey them

Would that include the Nazi and Stalinist regimes too?
18 posted on 10/09/2004 1:03:00 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: nobdysfool

The writer also doesn't seem to have a problem with compulsory religion. As lons as it's Baptist, I'm guessing.


19 posted on 10/09/2004 1:05:47 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: RMrattlesnake
****Well to start of one very big issue I have with the Libertarians is abortion.***

I once came across a website called Libertarians for Life. But most Libertarians are pro-abortion. I agree with some of the libertarians issues like getting rid of social security and letting us keep that money for ourselves. But what kept me from voting libertarian (except for the 1 time I voted for them) is their point of view on natinal security or lack thereof. They seem to be a party for people that love drugs and are particularly annoyed at christians.

20 posted on 10/09/2004 2:18:24 PM PDT by buckeyesrule
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To: buckeyesrule
They seem to be a party for people that love drugs and are particularly annoyed at christians.

I find many Christians annoying myself. There's a certain contingent that are not content with fighting for certain core issues, like being against abortion, gay marriage, tax cuts, etc. There's a subset though that deems themselves the culture police, and feel that anything that doesn't fit in with a southern Baptist tee-totalling ideal must be outlawed.

This also goes for non evangelicals that are real tough on crime and feel they can regulate what a person puts in their own body.
21 posted on 10/09/2004 2:26:14 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Dave Hamilton
The problem I have seen with so-called Libertarians is they all too often appease, excuse and even encourage liberals on far too many occasions and issues.

Well, if they're only 'so-called' Libertarians, then they aren't the real thing, and you have successfully made mulch of a straw man.  Does if make you feel better?
22 posted on 10/09/2004 8:11:38 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: ksen

I think Abortion should be as ilegal as going over a shooting your co-worker becouse he/she annoys you. Murder is murder it is taking a human life and killing. The Goverments job is to punish evil.


23 posted on 10/10/2004 3:31:43 AM PDT by RMrattlesnake
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To: maestro; GrandEagle; editor-surveyor; fortheDeclaration; PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain

PING!


24 posted on 10/11/2004 6:48:04 PM PDT by Commander8 (Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16)
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To: blues_guitarist

Give him a break, he's got dyslexia!


25 posted on 10/11/2004 6:48:44 PM PDT by Commander8 (Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16)
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To: ksen; RMrattlesnake

To be fair to the Libertarians, they are divided on the issue of abortion. There are many pro-life Liberatarins.
http://www.l4l.org/


26 posted on 10/11/2004 6:51:28 PM PDT by Commander8 (Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16)
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To: Commander8
..........................Yep......................

..............We Christians 'know' that we here in the U.S.A. are NOT in heaven..............

.........resist 'evil'..............

Maranatha~

27 posted on 10/11/2004 7:59:30 PM PDT by maestro
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To: Commander8
..........................Yep......................

..............We Christians 'know' that we here in the U.S.A. are NOT in heaven..............

.........resist 'evil'..............

Maranatha~

28 posted on 10/11/2004 8:00:27 PM PDT by maestro
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To: jude24

"Romans 13, however, clearly says that the government is invested with the authority to legislate as it sees fit, and we must obey them."

No. Romans 13 says that we are to follow JUST leadership. If you believe that RATS are just leaders, then I am sorry. I cannot follow them in good conscience. They must be opposed at every turn.

I am registered non-partisan, but if I did register, it would SURELY by with the CP. And, if I weren't so scared of Kerry, or I wasn't in a "battleground" state, I'd be voting Peroutka. However, I am and I do, so I cannot.


29 posted on 10/11/2004 8:09:33 PM PDT by Veritas et equitas ad Votum (If the Constitution "lives and breathes", it dies.)
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To: Veritas et equitas ad Votum
No. Romans 13 says that we are to follow JUST leadership.

Amen!

30 posted on 10/12/2004 2:22:47 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: ksen

And you are wrong.


31 posted on 10/12/2004 2:25:26 AM PDT by bmwcyle (I wear sleepwear therefore I think)
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To: ksen
I find that Libertarianism is the most consistent political philosophy with Christianity.

It depends on the definition of Libertarianism.

Gov't should be limited to using force against evil doers, not as a substitute for Christian charity.

32 posted on 10/12/2004 2:27:56 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration; editor-surveyor
.....Gov't should be limited to using force against evil doers, not as a substitute for Christian charity....

Amen!!!

33 posted on 10/12/2004 2:50:03 AM PDT by maestro
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To: RMrattlesnake

There are also some good arguments wherein the soul life is not breathed into the human until birth, so abortion, especially prior to the second trimester would be better interpretted as a killing of animal life as opposed to the removal of human life.


34 posted on 10/12/2004 3:19:06 AM PDT by Cvengr (;^))
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To: Veritas et equitas ad Votum
No. Romans 13 says that we are to follow JUST leadership

No such qualification there. Romans 13 gives no exceptions. Admittedly there is an exception for laws that explicitly countermand one of God's (cf. Ac. 4:19, Daniel 6:10), but Romans 13 allows no other. "No King but Jesus" is an American lie, not a Christian attitude.

Even a postively immoral leader has the right to exact obedience. The Ceasars were hardly fountains of morality. The denarius that Jesus picked up said on the obverse, "Caesar Augustus, son of the Divine Augustus." The inverse read, "Pontifix Maxiumus." And yet Jesus commanded to give to Caesar his due. Similarly, at the time Paul wrote Romans, Caligula had already reigned. Nero was currently reigning, although he had not yet gone off the deep end. Even Caligiula and Nero are included in Romans 13.

I understand that what I am saying is revolutionary, since American Chrstianity has adopted "No king but Jesus," but that owes much more to John Locke than to the Bible. But the American Rebellion has become enshrined in our memories, so that those who broke away from England over a tax-squabble are enshrined as demi-gods. (I concede that the Constitutional Republic they set up was an amazing work of genius.) But the Christian mandate is that Christians are to peacefully pay their taxes, obey the laws, and pray for their leaders. Even immoral leaders have that moral authority to demand such.

35 posted on 10/12/2004 4:53:20 AM PDT by jude24 (sola gratia)
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To: bmwcyle
And you are wrong.

Pretty strong argument for your position you gave there.

36 posted on 10/12/2004 5:00:21 AM PDT by ksen (*blink* *blink*)
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To: jude24
But the Christian mandate is that Christians are to peacefully pay their taxes, obey the laws, and pray for their leaders. Even immoral leaders have that moral authority to demand such.

Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego.......rabble-rousers. ;^)

37 posted on 10/12/2004 5:03:11 AM PDT by ksen (*blink* *blink*)
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To: ksen
That's the only authorized time for civil disobedience in the Scriptures -- when the lawful magistrate orders something that directly countermands a command of God.

This viewpoint used to be what Christians always believed:

It is the duty of people to pray for magistrates,[469] to honor their persons,[470] to pay them tribute or other dues,[471] to obey their lawful commands, and to be subject to their authority, for conscience’ sake.[472] Infidelity, or difference in religion, doth not make void the magistrates’ just and legal authority, nor free the people from their due obedience to them:[473] from which ecclesiastical persons are not exempted,[474]
-- Westminster Confession of Faith, 13.4

38 posted on 10/12/2004 5:21:05 AM PDT by jude24 (sola gratia)
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To: jude24

" Even a postively immoral leader has the right to exact obedience."

I don't subscribe to the 'No King but Jesus' theory, but I do think that we have an obligation to cast aside and oppose liars, cheaters, thieves, adulterers, and the like who bamboozle their way into public offices. Now, I'm not advocating a refusal to pay taxes or some such act, but I as a Christian believe it's imperative to stand up for public policy which best permits me to live a proper Christian lifestyle.

You see, I believe that America was put on earth by God as one final chance for men to govern men justly, fairly, and peacefully while respecting "natural law". The system worked for many years, and America quickly rose to be the best, freest, and most charitable nation in the world. Americans continue to die so that perfect strangers can have a chance at what we have. Our doctors and drug companies have saved countless lives that would have been lost in other countries. We are the last beacon of hope for individual freedom and we are the greatest threat to tyranny and mayhem around the world. RATS like Ted Kennedy, the Clintons, Kerry, etc. oppose all of that as they drive us toward weakness and socialism. They seem to oppose all that is good about America, and they do NOT have my respect, nor are they due honor.


39 posted on 10/12/2004 6:08:08 AM PDT by Veritas et equitas ad Votum (If the Constitution "lives and breathes", it dies.)
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To: jude24
There are certain instances in the Bible where we see acts of disobedience to civil authorities. Moses led his people out of Egypt, away from the lawful authority of Pharaoh. David fled from the grasp of King Saul and hid away from his soldiers. Were strict obedience to all laws required, other than to those that violate a direct command of God, David should have submitted to Saul's will even if it meant forfeiture of his life. Jesus Christ twice cleared the Temple of money changers, an act that surely violated both the civil and ecclesiastical authority of the day. Had the Lord regarded Himself as being subject to the complete obedience to that authority, He would not have cleared out the money changers. The apostle Paul escaped the Jewish authorities by being lowered from the walls of Damascus in a basket, as recorded in Acts 9:25.

Romans 13 addresses civil authority, but it may also be applied to others in authority, including ecclesiastical authority. John Calvin and John Knox, as well as Luther, Zwingli, et. al., believed the claims of the Papacy to be the heir to Peter and the vicar of Christ to be invalid. Presbyterians, independents, and Baptists even rejected the concept of bishops, as existed in the historic Christian church, as being an ecclesiastic development unsupported by the Bible. Traditionalist Catholics still refer to the Reformation as the "Protestant Revolt." In their viewpoint, while the Protestants had some legitimate complaints about issues such as the sale of indulgences, the actions of Luther, Calvin, et. al. were to defy the duly constituted authority (the Papacy and the RCC) that they believe were both lawful and God-ordained.

If Reformation theology is correct, then there can be, and are, illegitimate ecclesiastical authorities. The Reformers believed the authority claimed by Rome was invalid because it was not Biblical and that certain Catholic doctrines, particularly on the order of salvation, transubstantiation, the role of Scripture vs. tradition, baptismal regeneration, etc., were un-Scriptural. Another Reformation doctrine is the Lordship of Jesus Christ over all areas of life. That lordship certainly encompasses civil government as well as ecclesiastical. Civil magistrates, as much as the elders and deacons of the church, are subject to God's laws.

The concept of a civil government being illegitimate if it was oppressive predates John Locke. Samuel Rutherford outlined the principle in Lex Rex, that the law, i.e., God's law, is sovereign over nations and that both lesser magistrates and the people could lawfully resist a monarch who defied God's law. The Scottish Covenanters defied the kings of England on these grounds. The Puritans under the leadership of Oliver Cromwell rose against the tyranny of the House of Stuart under a similar premise.

John Locke, who was not a Calvinist but an Anglican out of the Erastian school, applied Rutherford's concept to a natural law based civil contract between the people and their government. Locke was an important influence on the American colonists and his philosophy was reflected in the Declaration of Independence. Although it was based in natural law, the concept of the right of the people generally or of lesser magistrates (the colonial governments) to resist lawless authority is not incompatible with the Puritan and Covenanter political thought of the 17th Century.

That said, I nonetheless believe that Romans 13 outlines the normative behavior toward all authority, whether civil, ecclesiastical, and familial, as well as to employer-employee relationships and private associations like fraternities and clubs. However, a modern day Communist or Islamic state by their oppressive nature defy God's commands to rulers (such as in Psalm 2 and Deuteronomy 17:19) would qualify as one where rebellion may be justified. The current Federal government in Washington, for all its flaws, does not qualify.

The Reformation, especially the Calvinist wing, emphasized the liberties and responsibilities of the individual. As Chapter 20 of the Westminster Confession states, "God alone is the Lord of conscience." It was the Biblical teachings of Reformation theology that influenced the movement away from monarchism, feudalism, and mercantilism to representative government and free market economics. It was in the Protestant, and particularly the Calvinist, nations of Europe such as the Netherlands and Britain, that the divine right of kings was successfully challenged and capitalism flourished.

40 posted on 10/12/2004 7:05:33 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.

Nice essay.

The only thing I think that needs to be added to your summary is the fact that our founding fathers did not believe in 'natural liberties' as expressed in the philosophies of enlightenment and manifested in the French Revolution.

The perfect law of liberty existed within the sacred law and the 'blessings of liberty' could be manifested only if government was set up so that justice and security would prevail.

A strong Federalism and divided government in its many checks and balances was the direct result of the Biblical doctrine of total depravity and in direct opposition to all other forms of philosophy or theology that teach that man is inherently good.

Mankind can experience freedom not in some 'natural state' but rather when government is sufficiently safeguarded against the depravity of man and the depravity of man is justly punished.


41 posted on 10/12/2004 7:54:51 AM PDT by GLENNS
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord
You might also suggest he read about Christian libertarians.

BTW, how to you reply to more than one poster? I don't know how to do that.

42 posted on 11/05/2004 9:16:19 PM PST by Commie Basher
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord
You might also suggest he read about Christian libertarians.

BTW, how to you reply to more than one poster? I don't know how to do that.

43 posted on 11/05/2004 9:18:22 PM PST by Commie Basher
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