What does the Bible actually say about being gay?

BBC ^ | October 23, 2003 | BBC

[eastsider]

The translation of arsenokoitai as "homosexual" in this passage is misleading. It's funny that the Bible translation uses "homosexual," because it is never translated that way in any other text.

In what other text does arsenokoitai appear, and how is it translated in that other text?

[SirAllen]

A few other verses the author conviently forgot:

Romans 1:26, "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

(Read the whole chapter for better context)

Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Deuteronomy 23:17, "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."

I believe homosexuality is a sin just like other sins. Some people seem more prone to it than others, just like some people are more prone to alcholism. I believe that if a homosexual truly believes and accepts Jesus into their life, that they will see that he does not approve of their lifestyle. I think a lot of these professed homosexual Christians are just professing it to feel better about themselves, but have not truely accepted Christ. It also has the added impact of tearing the church apart to argue that the Bible in any way condones homosexuality.

[Kleon]

It's usually translated as meaning a male pervert, prostitute or child molester. The sex of the victim or reciever is unimportant.

I think it's important to note that the word is not found in the diologues of Plato (or any pre-scripture Greek authors) who certainly would have used a word meaning "homosexual" if it was in his lexicon.

[stands2reason]

I know. I was just using the Socratic Method on StonyBurk.

[eastsider]

I'm leery of drawing any conclusion about the meaning of arsenokoitai in the NT based on the absence of such word in the Plato. For one thing, the classical Greek of the Platonic dialogues and the Koine of the NT are separated by four centuries. Compare, for example, the english of four centuries ago as found in the King James Version with the english of the NIV -- it should come as no surprise to anyone that the word arsenokoitai is not translated as homosexual in the KJV but is translated as homosexual in the NIV when one considers that the english word homosexual wasn't even coined until a little over a century ago!

Another point worth noting is that there is evidence that some of the NT koine is itself a translation of another language. For example, there's ample evidence to suggest that the koine found in the gospel of Matthew is a translation of an earlier semitic text. (This, too, should come as no surprise when one considers the hellenization of semitic names, such as Petros for Kephas.)

[punster]

""To protect his visitors from an act which Lot describes as "wicked", he offers the crowd his two virgin daughters instead."

It is interesting to note that Lot was offering to sell his two young daughters into prostitution, to placate the townspeople. It sure shows a bad attitude towards women, doesn't it?"

"It also displays that some sins are more evil than others and homosexuality ranks extremely perverse. It would have been better for a single instance of submission by the father and his daughters than to condone or not oppose homosexuality, especially an attempt to corrupt messengers of God.

It's an outstanding example though of the severity in our present day situation. In Lot's case, messengers of God were being attacked by homosexuality with the consequence of the entire people and their city being destroyed.

Consider now that the highest offices of the church are being assaulted again by homosexuality. In parallel, the US is in jeopardy of divine destruction to the point that even believers might be destroyed unless we remain steadfast in our faith to Him and oppose the homosexual advance upon any and all aspects of society."

Perhaps, we should examine what Lot was doing. Lot was a pimp. Furthermore, Lot was also engaging in running a child prostitution enterprise.

[L.N. Smithee]

But not Jesus. In fact, He never said a word on the subject. He had plenty to say on divorce, though, and that practice is promoted by the government. Go figure.

What did Jesus say about prostitution?

[Donaeus]

Excellent post!

Another fact that people quoting the verses from II Samuel regarding David and Jonathan's relationship fail to point out is that David had 300 wives and 700 concubines. I defy any claim that a man intimately surrounded by 1,000 women had a homosexual tendency of any kind.

[BobS]

I wonder if Jesus ever considered using the term "butthole surfers"?

[kancel]

>>Why don't we discuss fornicators, slanderers, thieves, adulterers, like we do homosexuals?<<

I think that we are discussing homosexuals becasue we are already at the bottom of that slippery slope of sexual immorality. Society has already given the fornicators and adulterers a pass in previous generations and homos are the last bastion we have to fight in this generation. In previous generations it was just as taboo to have sex outside of marriage, or to cheat on your spouse but those days are no longer.

It doesn't make the Bible wrong- it just makes us wrong.

[MEG33]

Thank you for your thoughtful answer.

[Cvengr]

Lot recognized the homsexuals were consumed in their lust of the flesh. Lot recognized the homosexuals sought to make the messengers of the Lord unholy. Lot, in keeping obedient to God by faith, even offered up the flesh of his daughters whom he greatly loved, in order not to defile his relationship with God. Lot's act was in a sense a foreshadowing of the love exhibited by Christ on the Cross, wherein Christ remained obedient to the Father even unto the separation of his body from his soul and spirit as a man, thereby offering the Perfect Sacrifice.

Those who were not believers, knew nothing of the spirit and only saw a man on the cross perishing, even while they mocked Him. Similarly, the homosexuals with Lot saw nothing of his act other than probably how you have presented it in your last post.

[JesseHousman]

...well, duh, it's because of stupid, hateful shit like this.

What a telling retort!

You have a way with words, Alabama Dave, that is astounding.

God didn't create a sub-class of humans so self-righteous Christians could beat up on them. You should know better than that if you're familiar with the God-given tenet of free will.

By not speaking out against these perverts and their sick agenda for Americans and their children you are a sycophant.

[FrankR]

"God stated that homosexuality is an abominiation - literally that it makes him want to puke. "

Well, homosexuality makes me want to puke, even if it wasn't in the Bible.

So what do the Pro-Gays think? Do they think if they twist the meanings of Bible verses pertaining to homosexuality enough, that everyone will say it's ok? Or, are they just trying to relieve that inner guilt for being perverted?

If most liberals think the Constitution is a "living document", to be re-interpreted at the drop of a hat, then why shouldn't they also think the Bible is a "living document"? They wouldn't even be reading it, except that they want to try and convince everyone that it's "OK to be Gay".

If I want the Bible interpreted, I'll call a true, Bible scholar who has no ulterior motives, or I'll just rely on my own upbringing and religious beliefs.

nuff sedd

[punster]

"Those who were not believers, knew nothing of the spirit and only saw a man on the cross perishing, even while they mocked Him. Similarly, the homosexuals with Lot saw nothing of his act other than probably how you have presented it in your last post."

That's an awful lot of rationalization of Lot's inequities.

How about this case as an example of hypocrisy?

---

http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=23709

Published Thursday, October 23, 2003
White faces charges for asking minor for sex
Pa. police arrest firebrand 'Brother Stephen'

BY GILLIAN GILLERS
Contributing Reporter

Reverend Stephen White, infamous for preaching against homosexuality and sexual promiscuity at Yale and other college campuses, now faces charges that he solicited sex from a teenage boy in a Philadelphia suburb.

In recent years, White -- known to students as "Brother Stephen" -- has made informal speeches on Cross Campus and Beinecke Plaza denouncing minorities, homosexuals, religious groups and aspects of popular culture.

White was arrested in June after he allegedly offered $20 to a 14-year-old boy in West Chester, Pa. for permission to perform oral sex on him.

According to the boy's sworn affidavit, White approached him in a green Ford van and asked if he knew of any strip clubs, adult book stores or shops that sold sexually explicit videos. When then the boy said he did not, White unsuccessfully attempted to lure the boy into the vehicle. White then told the boy he could "make some money" by letting White perform fellatio on him.

After the encounter, the boy reported the van's license plate number to his mother, who then contacted the police.

White will be tried on Nov. 24 on four charges, including criminal attempt to lure a child into a motor vehicle and criminal solicitation to involuntary deviant sexual intercourse.

---

[HitmanLV]

The Bible makes very few mentions of homosexuality - lesbianism isn't mentioned at all in the Old Testament

The author begins to lose me here. Isn't lesbianism considered homosexuality? Isn't a lesbian a homosexual? Doesn't homosexual mean "Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex?"

What is the author thinking here?

[milan]

Why don't we discuss fornicators,slanderers,thieves,adulterers,like we do homosexuals?

We do: "fornicators,slanderers,thieves,adulterers"=politicians

;)

[milan]

Now I can clearly see from the quotations here that their platform rests on some pretty flimsy boards.

Yeah, pretty flemsy alright. They choose a handful of quotes out of a book that takes a year to read if you pace yourself conservatively. If you do indepth study, it could easily take you 2-3 years to get through the Bible. They have no clue about the entirety of the Bible. They just pick a few lines and shazaam! God says being gay is okay.

This is similar to the "Bible contradicts itself" crap. They find a handful of passages that have been translated the best they could be and all of a sudden "well, the Bible contradicts itself in 20 places...it is false." They don't take into account translation, interpretation, or anything.

[milan]

Another fact that people quoting the verses from II Samuel regarding David and Jonathan's relationship fail to point out is that David had 300 wives and 700 concubines. I defy any claim that a man intimately surrounded by 1,000 women had a homosexual tendency of any kind.

Whaaaaahhhhh!!!! That is one of those amazingly memorable quotes that I will cherish and share with the grandkids...when they are older of course.