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Virginia bans grilling at multi-family dwellings
The Virginian-Pilot ^ | October 22, 2003 | By CINDY CLAYTON

Posted on 10/25/2003 6:16:55 PM PDT by SWO

Most apartment and condo dwellers in Virginia can kiss goodbye to preparing sizzling steaks or burgers on their balcony or patio grills.

As of Oct. 1, it's illegal to use an open-flame grill on wooden balconies or on patios within 10 feet of a combustible building, meaning just about any structure not made of brick.

Anyone violating the state's new fire prevention code can be charged with a Class 1 misdemeanor, punishable by a year in jail and a possible $2,500 fine.

In addition to the open flame ban, owners of propane grills that use tanks with a capacity greater than 2.5 pounds of water cannot use their grills on prohibited balconies or within 10 feet of combustible buildings.

The new rules are intended to prevent fires, said Glenn Dean, safety engineer with the state fire marshal's office.

``The idea is that you're trying to eliminate the amount of fuel that can leak or migrate,'' Dean said.

Embers that fly out of a charcoal grill onto a wooden deck can burst into flames, Dean said. Fumes from a leaky propane tank can waft into a neighbor's apartment and be ignited by a lit candle or cigarette.

``I think it's ridiculous,'' said Diana Sepulveda, who lives in a condo in the Riverwalk section of Chesapeake.

She and her husband have a small grill they use on their patio.

``If you're constantly watching your grill while you're grilling and not leaving it unattended, there should not be an issue,'' Sepulveda said. ``It's taking away from people's privacy and their culpability of living in their own home, whether it's an apartment or condo.'' Sepulveda's home is one of more than 142,000 multi-family units in Hampton Roads, according to the 2000 Census.

Not everyone is affected. Single- and two-family dwellings are exempt. So are buildings constructed with non-combustible materials such as brick. Buildings with sprinklers that protect decks aren't included. And any grill connected to a natural gas line also is legal.

Dean said Tuesday he did not have statistics on fires caused by grills in apartments or other multi-unit buildings.

But the anecdotal evidence is there, he said.

Jessica Younce said her tenants at Chase Arbor Apartments in Virginia Beach already are mostly in compliance with the code.

A November 2000 fire caused by an unattended balcony grill in the complex off Independence Boulevard destroyed 20 apartments.

``Since then, we've made it a policy that only people on the first floor can grill,'' said Younce, the apartment manager. ``Basically, you cannot grill on the second- or third-floor balcony.''

New residents seem to understand the policy and few complain when they learn about the fire three years ago, she said.

Local fire marshals said they aren't initiating a crackdown.

``Are we hunting down grills on balconies? Absolutely not,'' said Chief William Hibner, Chesapeake's fire marshal. ``Does that make it right to continue using them? No.''

Local fire marshals said Tuesday that they don't expect residents to get rid of their barbecues because some people invest large sums in high-tech grill gadgetry.

But they do expect people to dispose of propane tanks if they can't be used and stored according to the code, said Capt. Rick Kephart, Virginia Beach deputy fire marshal.

Hibner and Kephart both said that they and other fire marshals throughout the state try to take an educational approach to code enforcement. If people refuse to comply after learning about code violations, they are given a written notice that they must make changes. Future violations can result in a court summons, they said. ``We have found that an overwhelming majority of folks, when they are educated, they comply with no problem,'' Hibner said.

Hibner decided early on to start notifying apartment managers and others with an interest in the kinds of buildings affected.

``Everyone that we can find, we've actually sent a letter to them explaining the new code,'' Hibner said. ``We knew that was going to have a substantial impact. I knew we wanted to get the word out.''

Hibner said his office has received a few calls from people who wanted clarification of the code.

Virginia Beach fire inspectors started spreading the word last year, when they learned that the new code could be adopted, Kephart said. But the Virginia Beach fire marshal's office won't be sending letters out to every complex in the city.

Kephart said he talks to one or two residents about the issue each week. The fire marshal's office has received e-mails and talked to residents in person.

``People are concerned about their traditional Saturday night grills,'' Kephart said.

``It's been a major impact to the citizens,'' Kephart said. ``The biggest thing is to understand the intent of it.''

``People tend to forget about the Chase Arbors and things like that,'' Kephart said. ``People say it's not going to happen to me because I'm going to be safe with mine, but it's that kind of attitude that causes it.''

Reach Cindy Clayton at cindy.clayton@pilotonline.com or 222-5201.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; bbq; donutwatch; firearms; freedom; libertarian; liberty; nannystate
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To: SWO
Embers that fly out of a charcoal grill onto a wooden deck can burst into flames, Dean said. Fumes from a leaky propane tank can waft into a neighbor's apartment and be ignited by a lit candle or cigarette.

Yeah, and cars can suddenly veer off the road into pedestrians so let's ban sidewalks or cars on roads. Actually, it would just be better to ban such moronic politicians.
41 posted on 10/25/2003 8:59:02 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: GeronL
Whats under the grill shouldn't count, grass can burn just as easily as wood.. and some porches are made of concrete for goodness sakes.

Actually dry grass will ignite much, much more readily than wood decking.

42 posted on 10/25/2003 8:59:10 PM PDT by Down South P.E.
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To: Amadeo
Propane does not "waft into a neighbor's apartment". Look at it's vapor pressure. Propane does not "waft" —it poofs...dissipates rapidly when released from pressure to 1 atm. You have to have a flame right on it to ignite it. It would make more sense to ban cigarettes and candles if you really wanted to prevent apartment fires.

Propane is actually more dangerous than natural gas. It's 1.5 times heavier than air...so when it is released it will tend to accumulate in lower lying areas. It can also be driven by air currents. It can and does migrate into openings such as vents or windows on structures with subsequent ignition.

It's flammable limits are between 2.2 and 9.6 percent (it don't take much). The parting arc generated in your light switch when you flip the switch on is enough to ignite it. When released from it's container it expands to 270 times its volume. So a very small release, say 1 cubic inch will expand to 270 cubic inches of propane. Just that little bit will produce a substantial fire.

It is also a very safe and reliable fuel source...but you should respect it. Lack of respect for and a lack of knowledge about this fuel is what causes a lot of fires.

43 posted on 10/25/2003 9:14:20 PM PDT by Down South P.E.
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To: SWO
Is ANYTHING legal anymore? Sheesh!
44 posted on 10/25/2003 9:37:58 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: SWO
Notice how the penalty for firing up the old barbie is just enough to make your RKBA forfeit....forever. Even though it's not a violent crime, and not a felony. One year is the statutory minimum for loss of second amendment rights.

(Although if it's Up to one year, I believe the federal law says "more than one year, so you might skim by after all)
45 posted on 10/25/2003 9:50:37 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: SWO
We had this law in Miami-Dade County when I lived there. I ignored it and enjoyed many a grilled snapper on my third floor balcony/patio. I was NEVER fined, even though I had a cop living downstairs from me.
46 posted on 10/25/2003 9:51:39 PM PDT by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: El Gato
It also doesn't matter if the judge gives you a $50 fine and a safety lecture, the key is the offense must only be *punishable* by more than a year in prison, regardless of your personal punishment.

47 posted on 10/25/2003 9:53:48 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: SWO
When barbecues are outlawed, only idiot outlaws will have barbecues.
48 posted on 10/26/2003 12:42:09 AM PDT by Ruth A.
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

Comment #50 Removed by Moderator

Comment #51 Removed by Moderator

Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: Shooter 2.5
Actually this should be on the bang list. Most of the stuff comes from the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) which has now gotten into the gun banning movement big time with a safety educational program for children in school, the gun portion of which is put together by the VPC, etc. EVERYTHING MUST BE REGULATED, IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!
53 posted on 10/26/2003 1:11:08 AM PST by FSPress
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To: SWO
Smoking (tobacco regulation) is a gateway drug. It is the gateway to more government regulation of legal activities. I wonder how many of the now defunct grillers were strongly in favor of regulating private citizens use of nicotine?
54 posted on 10/26/2003 1:17:46 AM PST by this_ol_patriot
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To: handk
You properly should of put my two paragraphs in quotations, and attributed them to me. But that would be the complaint of a prissy limp-wrist and anal retentive grammarian that had it's panties in a bunch.( 'dat be you)

Haven't you noticed that the posts are more in the way of a conversation than a exercise in rhetorical? Since the vast majority of Freepers( and also in every other forum ) post this way, what's your point?

Lastly, "gotten" is too a word. For instance, "ill-gotten gains". Maybe you could go to a neighbors house, if they would let you in, and look it up in a dictionary.

Finally, I'll write, type, post, speak and do as I please.
55 posted on 10/26/2003 4:20:37 AM PST by Leisler
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To: this_ol_patriot; bang_list
You, like I, are thinking out of the box.

Gateway? I feel we passed the gateway over a hundred years ago. The friggen gooberment and all its shuffle footed, food stuffing, suv driving dolts are on our land and in our houses each and every day.
56 posted on 10/26/2003 4:25:47 AM PST by Leisler
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To: Down South P.E.
If it takes away your property or puts you into prison, it should be voted on by both brances of government,and run through the courts. Other than that is bunk.
57 posted on 10/26/2003 4:31:23 AM PST by Leisler
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To: handk; 317y; laotzu; freedumb2003; Graybeard58
About implying you are a limp wrist, anal retentive, prissy grammarian. I read through your last posts and you were taking it upon yourself to be the little peddle pushing tricycle cop of language usage. So, I wasn't being invective, I was right. You are pathetic.
58 posted on 10/26/2003 4:43:33 AM PST by Leisler
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To: FSPress; SWO
Well, no. This isn't remotely as important as the Second Amendment. Comparing someone's inability to grill a steak as the same as a single mom cowering behind a splintering door as she frantically calls 9-11 isn't the same to me.

The Wisconsin Senate passed a CCW law and the Missouri CCW law is in jeopardy. I would like to see the bang list as clean as possible so the active polls that are happening right aren't lost in the listing.

So please, try to stay on topic.

Thank you.
59 posted on 10/26/2003 5:15:09 AM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: Nathaniel Fischer
LOL - it's not so bad. Besides, after fifteen years, I would have been desperate enough to go anywhere to get out of the People's Republic of New York ;)
60 posted on 10/26/2003 5:33:38 AM PST by general_re ("I am Torgo. I take care of the place while the Master is away.")
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