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General Douglas MacArthur's Farewell Speech: the long gray line has never failed us.
National Center for Public Policy Research - A Conservative Think Tank ^ | May 12, 1962 | General Douglas MacArthur

Posted on 01/31/2004 5:22:33 AM PST by risk

General Douglas MacArthur's Farewell Speech

Given to the Corps of Cadets at West Point

May 12, 1962

General Westmoreland, General Groves, distinguished guests, and gentlemen of the Corps. As I was leaving the hotel this morning, a doorman asked me, "Where are you bound for, General?" and when I replied, "West Point," he remarked, "Beautiful place, have you ever been there before?"

No human being could fail to be deeply moved by such a tribute as this, coming from a profession I have served so long and a people I have loved so well. It fills me with an emotion I cannot express. But this award is not intended primarily for a personality, but to symbolize a great moral code - the code of conduct and chivalry of those who guard this beloved land of culture and ancient descent. That is the meaning of this medallion. For all eyes and for all time, it is an expression of the ethics of the American soldier. That I should be integrated in this way with so noble an ideal arouses a sense of pride and yet of humility which will be with me always.

"Duty," "Honor," "Country" - those three hallowed words reverently dictate what you want to be, what you can be, what you will be. They are your rallying point to build courage when courage seems to fail, to regain faith when there seems to be little cause for faith, to create hope when hope becomes forlorn. Unhappily, I possess neither that eloquence of diction, that poetry of imagination, nor that brilliance of metaphor to tell you all that they mean.

The unbelievers will say they are but words, but a slogan, but a flamboyant phrase. Every pedant, every demagogue, every cynic, every hypocrite, every troublemaker, and, I am sorry to say, some others of an entirely different character, will try to downgrade them even to the extent of mockery and ridicule.

But these are some of the things they do. They build your basic character. They mold you for your future roles as the custodians of the nation's defense. They make you strong enough to know when you are weak, and brave enough to face yourself when you are afraid.

They teach you to be proud and unbending in honest failure, but humble and gentle in success; not to substitute words for action; not to seek the path of comfort, but to face the stress and spur of difficulty and challenge; to learn to stand up in the storm, but to have compassion on those who fall; to master yourself before you seek to master others; to have a heart that is clean, a goal that is high; to learn to laugh, yet never forget how to weep; to reach into the future, yet never neglect the past; to be serious, yet never take yourself too seriously; to be modest so that you will remember the simplicity of true greatness; the open mind of true wisdom, the meekness of true strength.

They give you a temperate will, a quality of imagination, a vigor of the emotions, a freshness of the deep springs of life, a temperamental predominance of courage over timidity, an appetite for adventure over love of ease. They create in your heart the sense of wonder, the unfailing hope of what next, and the joy and inspiration of life. They teach you in this way to be an officer and a gentleman.

And what sort of soldiers are those you are to lead? Are they reliable? Are they brave? Are they capable of victory?

Their story is known to all of you. It is the story of the American man at arms. My estimate of him was formed on the battlefields many, many years ago, and has never changed. I regarded him then, as I regard him now, as one of the world's noblest figures; not only as one of the finest military characters, but also as one of the most stainless.

His name and fame are the birthright of every American citizen. In his youth and strength, his love and loyalty, he gave all that mortality can give. He needs no eulogy from me, or from any other man. He has written his own history and written it in red on his enemy's breast.

But when I think of his patience under adversity, of his courage under fire, and of his modesty in victory, I am filled with an emotion of admiration I cannot put into words. He belongs to history as furnishing one of the greatest examples of successful patriotism. He belongs to posterity as the instructor of future generations in the principles of liberty and freedom. He belongs to the present, to us, by his virtues and by his achievements.

In twenty campaigns, on a hundred battlefields, around a thousand campfires, I have witnessed that enduring fortitude, that patriotic self-abnegation, and that invincible determination which have carved his statue in the hearts of his people.

From one end of the world to the other, he has drained deep the chalice of courage. As I listened to those songs of the glee club, in memory's eye I could see those staggering columns of the First World War, bending under soggy packs on many a weary march, from dripping dusk to drizzling dawn, slogging ankle deep through mire of shell-pocked roads; to form grimly for the attack, blue-lipped, covered with sludge and mud, chilled by the wind and rain, driving home to their objective, and for many, to the judgment seat of God.

I do not know the dignity of their birth, but I do know the glory of their death. They died unquestioning, uncomplaining, with faith in their hearts, and on their lips the hope that we would go on to victory. Always for them: Duty, Honor, Country. Always their blood, and sweat, and tears, as they saw the way and the light.

And twenty years after, on the other side of the globe, against the filth of dirty foxholes, the stench of ghostly trenches, the slime of dripping dugouts, those boiling suns of the relentless heat, those torrential rains of devastating storms, the loneliness and utter desolation of jungle trails, the bitterness of long separation of those they loved and cherished, the deadly pestilence of tropic disease, the horror of stricken areas of war.

Their resolute and determined defense, their swift and sure attack, their indomitable purpose, their complete and decisive victory - always victory, always through the bloody haze of their last reverberating shot, the vision of gaunt, ghastly men, reverently following your password of Duty, Honor, Country.

The code which those words perpetuate embraces the highest moral laws and will stand the test of any ethics or philosophies ever promulgated for the uplift of mankind. Its requirements are for the things that are right, and its restraints are from the things that are wrong. The soldier, above all other men, is required to practice the greatest act of religious training - sacrifice. In battle and in the face of danger and death, he discloses those divine attributes which his Maker gave when he created man in his own image. No physical courage and no brute instinct can take the place of the Divine help which alone can sustain him. However horrible the incidents of war may be, the soldier who is called upon to offer and to give his life for his country, is the noblest development of mankind.

You now face a new world, a world of change. The thrust into outer space of the satellite, spheres and missiles marked the beginning of another epoch in the long story of mankind - the chapter of the space age. In the five or more billions of years the scientists tell us it has taken to form the earth, in the three or more billion years of development of the human race, there has never been a greater, a more abrupt or staggering evolution. We deal now not with things of this world alone, but with the illimitable distances and as yet unfathomed mysteries of the universe. We are reaching out for a new and boundless frontier. We speak in strange terms: of harnessing the cosmic energy; of making winds and tides work for us; of creating unheard synthetic materials to supplement or even replace our old standard basics; of purifying sea water for our drink; of mining ocean floors for new fields of wealth and food; of disease preventatives to expand life into the hundred of years; of controlling the weather for a more equitable distribution of heat and cold, of rain and shine; of space ships to the moon; of the primary target in war, no longer limited to the armed forces of an enemy, but instead to include his civil populations; of ultimate conflict between a united human race and the sinister forces of some other planetary galaxy; of such dreams and fantasies as to make life the most exciting of all time.

And through all this welter of change and development your mission remains fixed, determined, inviolable. It is to win our wars. Everything else in your professional career is but corollary to this vital dedication. All other public purpose, all other public projects, all other public needs, great or small, will find others for their accomplishments; but you are the ones who are trained to fight.

Yours is the profession of arms, the will to win, the sure knowledge that in war there is no substitute for victory, that if you lose, the Nation will be destroyed, that the very obsession of your public service must be Duty, Honor, Country.

Others will debate the controversial issues, national and international, which divide men's minds. But serene, calm, aloof, you stand as the Nation's war guardians, as its lifeguards from the raging tides of international conflict, as its gladiators in the arena of battle. For a century and a half you have defended, guarded and protected its hallowed traditions of liberty and freedom, of right and justice.

Let civilian voices argue the merits or demerits of our processes of government. Whether our strength is being sapped by deficit financing indulged in too long, by federal paternalism grown too mighty, by power groups grown too arrogant, by politics grown too corrupt, by crime grown too rampant, by morals grown too low, by taxes grown too high, by extremists grown too violent; whether our personal liberties are as firm and complete as they should be.

These great national problems are not for your professional participation or military solution. Your guidepost stands out like a tenfold beacon in the night: Duty, Honor, Country.

You are the leaven which binds together the entire fabric of our national system of defense. From your ranks come the great captains who hold the Nation's destiny in their hands the moment the war tocsin sounds.

The long gray line has never failed us. Were you to do so, a million ghosts in olive drab, in brown khaki, in blue and gray, would rise from their white crosses, thundering those magic words: Duty, Honor, Country.

This does not mean that you are warmongers. On the contrary, the soldier above all other people prays for peace, for he must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war. But always in our ears ring the ominous words of Plato, that wisest of all philosophers: "Only the dead have seen the end of war."

The shadows are lengthening for me. The twilight is here. My days of old have vanished - tone and tints. They have gone glimmering through the dreams of things that were. Their memory is one of wondrous beauty, watered by tears and coaxed and caressed by the smiles of yesterday. I listen then, but with thirsty ear, for the witching melody of faint bugles blowing reveille, of far drums beating the long roll.

In my dreams I hear again the crash of guns, the rattle of musketry, the strange, mournful mutter of the battlefield. But in the evening of my memory I come back to West Point. Always there echoes and re-echoes: Duty, Honor, Country.

Today marks my final roll call with you. But I want you to know that when I cross the river, my last conscious thoughts will be of the Corps, and the Corps, and the Corps.

I bid you farewell.

Historical Documents National Center Home Page


TOPICS: Australia/New Zealand; Canada; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel; Japan; Philosophy; US: Virginia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: douglasmacarthur; dutyhonorcountry; freedom; macarthur; price; speech; thingrayline; transcript
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Someone must post this every few months, but it's my turn. I happened on this speech again tonight. It stands for itself. No matter what one thinks of MacArthur (and he is unquestionably one of America's greatest heroes in my opinion), this speech has a message for our time and every time when freedom loving people face a threat to their way of life.
1 posted on 01/31/2004 5:22:34 AM PST by risk
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To: risk
Agreed - thank you very much for posting this on the FR website.

[I have often wondered why it is "Duty, Honor, Country" and not "Country" first ...?]

2 posted on 01/31/2004 5:27:27 AM PST by jamaksin
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; Travis McGee; Grampa Dave; SAMWolf; Squantos; Jeff Head; patton; ...
ping
3 posted on 01/31/2004 5:29:36 AM PST by risk (In war there is no substitute for victory.)
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To: LindaSOG; Old Sarge; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; bentfeather; Diva Betsy Ross; Molly Pitcher
ping
4 posted on 01/31/2004 5:32:09 AM PST by risk (Duty, Honor, Country)
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To: risk
MacArthur was a hero? What did he do that was heroic? Walked on a beach and exclaimed, "I have returned." While troops secured the area to make sure his photo-op was safe and Wainwright and the others were dieing in a death camps.

Or was it, when he tear gassed the WWI veterans and burned down the Hooverville in Washington DC disobeying two direct orders from the President Hoover not to do it. During this heroic attack on unarmed families two infants died of aphyxiation due to the tear gas.

Not we have returned, but I have returned. Only a bum would think this egotistical jackass was a hero.


5 posted on 01/31/2004 5:44:32 AM PST by RunningJoke
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To: RunningJoke
Warts, blemishes, mistakes and all the rest, I'm glad he was on our side. The democratic nation of Japan is his direct handiwork.
6 posted on 01/31/2004 5:52:32 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: RunningJoke
If I have the priviledge of being called a bum for lionizing Douglas MacArthur then so be it.
7 posted on 01/31/2004 5:55:36 AM PST by risk
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Hate to tell you this, it was the grunt that won that war and democratized Japan not the general. It always amazed me that I know of two distinct times when MacArthur disobeyed orders from Hoover and Truman. But when Roosevelt ordered him to flee the Philippines he didn't disobey that order.
8 posted on 01/31/2004 5:59:47 AM PST by RunningJoke
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To: risk
MacArthur certainly was one of the great generals in history. WWI Medal of Honor. His stand at Corregidor tied down the Japanese for many more months than expected,slowing their eastward conquests. He was "ORDERED" to leave the Philippines. The photographers,movie and still, were"imbedded" with landing units(think Rosenbloom at IWO).They were already ashore when MacArthur arrived. IT WAS NO SETUP. His "Island hopping" strategy SAVED LIVES and SHORTENED WWII. The landing at Inchon was one of the greatest feats of generalship in military history. His turning Japan into a democracy was masterful leadership. He was a staunch anti-communistand is the reason he is reviled by the mass media.
9 posted on 01/31/2004 6:13:17 AM PST by captbarney
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To: captbarney
And he warned us that terror would be the result of losing in Korea.
10 posted on 01/31/2004 6:20:30 AM PST by risk
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To: RunningJoke
Inchon.

If you want to make a case for or against include everything--unless ofcourse if doing so would tend to attack your position.
That you position is shakey is indicated by the angry name calling you wrap things up with.

Disagree with you and a person is a "bum". Ok genius, whatever.
11 posted on 01/31/2004 6:30:06 AM PST by TalBlack ("Tal, no song means anything without someone else...")
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To: RunningJoke
The Japanese thought MacArthur was god, but built whore houses for American sailors and troops. My dad was there as part of the occupation structure (he served in the CBI) and my mom and I joined him in 1951 thru 1961. You might pick up "Embracing Defeat" by John Dower (the book won the Pulitzer Prize and National Book Award) that covers this period.
MacArthur made a few mistakes here, too, but the Japanese would've reverted to their Fascist ways had it not been for his approach.
12 posted on 01/31/2004 7:05:17 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: risk
bttt
13 posted on 01/31/2004 7:08:55 AM PST by litehaus
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To: harpseal; Travis McGee; Squantos; sneakypete; Chapita
This does not mean that you are warmongers. On the contrary, the soldier above all other people prays for peace, for he must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war. But always in our ears ring the ominous words of Plato, that wisest of all philosophers: "Only the dead have seen the end of war."
14 posted on 01/31/2004 7:09:31 AM PST by razorback-bert
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To: RunningJoke
I doubt I could change your mind on MacArthur, but this is a great speech.
15 posted on 01/31/2004 7:10:22 AM PST by razorback-bert
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To: TalBlack
"Disagree with you and a person is a "bum". Ok genius, whatever."

You are correct and I apologize for the name calling. I got emotional a few things trigger my emotions. One of these is lying to the American People ala Bill Clinton and of course creating false heroes of men that probably deserved a prison term than lionization from his sycophantic followers.

No, old Generals don't fade away their bad history is covered up while their achievements are magnified to exaggeration.

MacArthur was the Wesley Clark of his time.
16 posted on 01/31/2004 7:25:23 AM PST by RunningJoke
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To: RunningJoke
Hate to tell you this, it was the grunt that won that war and democratized Japan not the general.

Granted a General is nothing without his grunts, but grunts without a leader are lost in the big picture. In the small picture they have performed phenomenally, but they alone could not have beaten Japan.

They needed a leader. MacArthur was their leader.

17 posted on 01/31/2004 8:18:57 AM PST by Eaker (Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark. - Lazarus Long)
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To: Eaker
He was the leader selected. That does not mean another leader could not have prospered, perhaps one not as vainglorious as MacArthur. Correct me, if I'm wrong but the Pacific theatre was more of a naval war. Our game plan was to go around the heavily fortified islands.

"Granted a General is nothing without his grunts, but grunts without a leader are lost in the big picture."

It's funny you bring that up. My father's unit would target the German officers because although the Germans were excellent soldiers they were more dependent on their leaders. The American soldier as well as the American citizen in general, especially during WWII, were more independent and could actually fight with the absence of officers; they would fight for each other, in what most people would call Esprit de corps. It was your job, to keep moving and take objectives. That is the greatest single point to bring home about the American fighting man. It is not blind faith in his leaders but his willingness to get the job done.

This above paragraph is what my father knew to be true and most of history is willing to write off about Americans or misplace credit to the Generals.

And here's news, the atomic bomb was probably more effective than any single reason that broke the Japanese resolve. My father was ecstatic that Truman dropped the bombs. His unit had just received his orders to ship out to the Pacific. He had already missed death three times in ETO's combat. He figured he had used up most of his luck.
18 posted on 01/31/2004 9:41:07 AM PST by RunningJoke
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To: risk
If you have a MacAuthur's ping list, please put me on it. The General is one of history's greatest commanders. And my personal hero.
19 posted on 01/31/2004 9:44:44 AM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: RunningJoke
Well let's start with world war 1, Mac Author was the most decorated American (officer) in that war. He personally lead numerous patrols and recon missions into enemy territory. Two or three times nominated for the medal of honor. Also of note, is that at the time he was the division executive officer and later the division commanding officer. Here was one general that led from the front.

In one particularly difficult battle his division was order to take an objective or turn in a 100% causality report. 100% causalities, means do or die. He personally led the attack on the position and took it. I could continue and will continue until I pound into you how full of it you are.

20 posted on 01/31/2004 10:12:57 AM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: jpsb
[Correct me, if I'm wrong but the Pacific theatre was more of a naval war. Our game plan was to go around the heavily fortified islands.]

you're wrong. When Mac Author got to Australia EVERYONE was expecting an invasion of Australia and the Japaneses were planning on doing exactly that. However Mac Author shocked the entirely Australian military establishment by going on the attack instead of preparing a defense. Mac, committed his meager forces to taking New Gunni and there by denying the Japanese with a staging area for the invasion. A risky, bold and brilliant strategy.

Also the later island hoping strategy was Mac Authors strategy. The Navy didn't use it in their island campaigns and suffer far greatly loses.

21 posted on 01/31/2004 10:23:08 AM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: RunningJoke
Another thing, do you know who was one to the first to set foot in Japan in 45? Yup MacAuthor, MacAuthor arrived long before the US troops. The Japanesse would not look at him, they feared death would result from looking at such at great warrior. How many commanders would enter a defeated nation that had not yet laid down it's arms. And enter with only a handful of troops? The general did not lack courage.
22 posted on 01/31/2004 10:34:54 AM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: jpsb
suffer far greatly loses = suffered far greater loses.
23 posted on 01/31/2004 10:36:32 AM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: risk
I've heard tell that MacArthur's speech can be found on the internet in audio format - is this true? If so, can you point me where? People who know say that he had a powerful and magnetic presence.

J
24 posted on 01/31/2004 10:41:35 AM PST by CGVet58 (For my fellow Americans; my life... for our enemies; The Sword!!!)
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To: RunningJoke
You refined my point for me.

Thanks,
Eaker

25 posted on 01/31/2004 10:50:42 AM PST by Eaker (Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark. - Lazarus Long)
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To: RunningJoke; All
reading your two replies on this thread, which bear an amazing resemblance to someone who picks his nosehairs in his sparetime (and has LOTS of spare time...), I can quickly see why you chose the tagline you have... nothing constructive or instructive in your comments - just more typical petty whinings that - like water flowing against a rock - always follow the path of least resistance.

C'mon, now, fess up... are you another in the line of leftists-claiming-liberal-superiority who deign to grace our humble Freep-abode?

CGVet58
Juan

26 posted on 01/31/2004 10:51:48 AM PST by CGVet58 (For my fellow Americans; my life... for our enemies; The Sword!!!)
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To: risk
It was a dandy speech. He polished his image right to the end. But as they say, What Ever.!.

As a young man I knew and worked with several WWII Veterans
who refered to General MacArthur as " Dug Out Doug ".
Never heard the word Hero used in connection with those comments.
27 posted on 01/31/2004 10:57:02 AM PST by Pompah (If it ain't broke,fix it 'til it is.)
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To: RunningJoke
I had family involved too.




28 posted on 01/31/2004 11:03:03 AM PST by Eaker (Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark. - Lazarus Long)
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To: Pompah
People often disparage their boss, except on payday.
29 posted on 01/31/2004 11:08:25 AM PST by Eaker (Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark. - Lazarus Long)
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To: Eaker
A handsome tribute.
My dad was a bit too old to step forward in WW II (he was born in 1906) but he was a commercial pilot and knew Asia as a flyer for China National Airline Company (owned by American Airlines at the time). He joined the AAF as a civilian pilot, flying C-46's over the Hump, supplying Nationalist Chinese, Brits and a few American troops who were fighting the Japanese in China. There were many civilian captains in this theater. Dad wore an officer's uniform with the CBI patch but no rank insignia.
After the war, he joined the Army again as a civilian and worked for the Japan Procurement Agency, buying stuff for the Army and Air force in Asia, mainly for the Korean conflict.
When I arrived as a little kid in Sagamihara and later, Yokohama, the country was still run more or less by the US Army and the State Department. MacArthur was gone but his influence was still quite evident and still is today.
30 posted on 01/31/2004 11:22:12 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: risk
bump
31 posted on 01/31/2004 11:25:10 AM PST by VOA
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To: jpsb
Are you serious? Did you realize that the Japanese had already surrendered? Do you all know why MacArthur did not get the ETO leadership and it was given to lower level officer (Eisenhower)? Because MacArthur could not follow orders! Both Political parties knew it and witnessed it.
It seems some of you on this thread have decided that following and hero worship is more important than thinking and understanding a tragic character flaw in MacArthur.
32 posted on 01/31/2004 11:50:36 AM PST by RunningJoke
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
flying C-46's over the Hump

One of the most dangerous jobs at the time and deserving of great respect and thanks. There are many heros that the public never see.

My thanks to your dad for all that he did.

Tom

33 posted on 01/31/2004 12:04:16 PM PST by Eaker (Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark. - Lazarus Long)
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To: CGVet58; Cincinatus' Wife; jpsb
I see some Windows Media here://www.hughcox.com/MacArthur/
RealAudio here: http://www.west-point.org/real/macarthur_28.ram
via http://www.west-point.org/real/macarthur_address.html

I also see some interesting MacArthur audio here:
http://www.jhs.jordan.k12.ut.us/faculty/bcharon/audiomacarthur.html
34 posted on 01/31/2004 1:30:21 PM PST by risk ("The unbelievers will say they are but words, but a slogan, but a flamboyant phrase.")
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To: CGVet58
Let me first tell you I will ignore you "nose hair" comment. That sounds disgusting and vulgar.

Secondly, let me spell it out in plain English for you. The speech given by MacArthur although worthy at its face value did not mirror his military career. DUTY! Again, so it sinks in, DUTY!
What about disobeying direct orders not once but several times is related to duty? The man was a maverick. It is important you realize this distinction, because even the lowest grunt knows how to take orders.

I've been called an elitist pig, son of a bitch conservative and now a "leftist-claiming-liberal-superiority".

"water flowing against a rock"

"The hardest thing to cope with is not selfishness or vanity of deceitfulness, but sheer stupidity. One needs the talents of an animal trainer to deal with the stupid."
35 posted on 01/31/2004 1:55:10 PM PST by RunningJoke
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To: AngryOne; snippy_about_it; jocon307; SJackson; areafiftyone; Tailgunner Joe; Incorrigible; ...


Follow this image's link for a short bio.


Another post on FR. (With MP3 audio links.)

36 posted on 01/31/2004 2:13:54 PM PST by risk (...your mission remains fixed, determined, inviolable: it is to win our wars.)
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To: RunningJoke
[Are you serious? Did you realize that the Japanese had already surrendered?]

The Government of Japan had surrendered, true. But the armed forces still their arms and were still under the command of officers that would rather die then suffer defeat. It really was a brave move, and helped the General to earned the respect of the Japanesse.

Seems to me, your entire argument is based on his leaving Bataan. Do you know how he left Bataan? Do you know why he left Bataan. Do you know that his campaigns in WW 2 all aimed at returning to his command in Bataan.

Do you know that the navy plan was concerning the Philippines. I'll tell you, it was to fire up the boilers and steam to Perl Harbors at full speed. It is amazing that MacAuthors forces held up the Japanese for as long as they did. His tactics in defense were brilliant. All the other commands in the far east were over run in a matter of weeks except Mac Authors.

As for Ike, do you know that Ike was for many years, Mac Authors second in the Philippines? One could argue that Ike learned quire a bit (besides acting) serving with Mac Author. So even Ike, had a very Strong connection to MacAuthor. Patton gave his superiors (Ike) a hard time too, is Patton also a bum?

Ok, back to Truman, did you know that Truman ordered the seventh fleet to guard the chicom flank during the Korean war. GUARD THE ENEMY FLANK FOR GOD's SAKE! Truman was a fool and MacAuthor knew it. Never before in the history of warfare has a general had his own damn forces ordered to guard the enemies flank! And guess what with their flank secure the Chicom were able to move into Korea the forces that attacked and overran the American under MacAuthor. Now you tell me how you would react to such stupidity.

37 posted on 01/31/2004 2:25:53 PM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: RunningJoke
[because even the lowest grunt knows how to take orders.]

Do you know how his father won the Congressional Medal of Honor at the battle of Missionary Ridge?

Seems the union generals had decided the confederate position on top of the ridge were too strong to attack an ORDERED the troops not to attack. MacAuthors father was among the troops that when ahead and attacked anyway (DISOBEYING ORDERS) well with attack under way (AGAINST ODRERS) everyone got in to it and the union troops took the hill. For bravery in action the general father won the congressional medal of honor and a field commission. He later when on to become a Major General and Chief of Staff of the Army.

38 posted on 01/31/2004 2:36:59 PM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: Eaker
He never qualified for veterans' benefits, even though he was in a war zone, was involved in a crash landing in India and was treated at a Vet's burn center in Texas.
I don't begrudge giving recognition to Lao vets from the Viet Nam era but I think we overlooked a few of our own.
39 posted on 01/31/2004 2:41:15 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: jpsb; SAMWolf; LindaSOG
What a price we pay for civilian control over the military. But in a democracy, there is no other alternative. As Samuel P. Huntington argues, survival of the Republic depends on a strong bind between civilians and their armed forces.

This is one of the best services FR provides: it encourages understanding, mutual respect, and support between civilian Americans and our military personnel -- citizen soldiers every one.

Which brings to mind the banishment of ROTC off of the college campuses in the 1960s and 1970s. I can think of a very small number of anti-American academic policies that could have been worse.

40 posted on 01/31/2004 3:13:24 PM PST by risk (For 150 years you have defended, guarded, and protected its hallowed traditions of liberty...)
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To: risk
[What a price we pay for civilian control over the military. But in a democracy, there is no other alternative.]

You are correct, there is no other way. but this nation pays a dear price for the fools that it elects to the position of CIC. Well at least Bush for all his faults is a good CIC.

I very much dislike this idea that MacAuthor should be judged solely by his mistakes by not giving him credit for his achievements. I am going to go to my library and look up what Winston Churhhill had to say about MacAuthor. It was quite an accolade (sp) as I recall.

41 posted on 01/31/2004 3:35:56 PM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: risk; SAMWolf
Great speech, thanks for the ping risk.

The soldier, above all other men, is required to practice the greatest act of religious training - sacrifice. In battle and in the face of danger and death, he discloses those divine attributes which his Maker gave when he created man in his own image. No physical courage and no brute instinct can take the place of the Divine help which alone can sustain him. However horrible the incidents of war may be, the soldier who is called upon to offer and to give his life for his country, is the noblest development of mankind.

The FReeper Foxhole Profiles General Douglas MacArthur - June 14th, 2003



*******

Dugout Doug MacArthur lies ashakin' on the Rock Safe from all the bombers and from any sudden shock Dugout Doug is eating of the best food on Bataan And his troops go starving on.

Dugout Doug, come out from hiding Dugout Doug, come out from hiding Send to Franklin the glad tidings That his troops go starving on! (Manchester, pp. 237-38)

And President Truman "privately called the General 'a common coward' for leaving Corregidor in 1942" (Manchester, p. 672).

But nothing said about Douglas MacArthur could possibly be further from the truth. During the First World War he won the Distinguished Service Medal, the Distinguished Service Cross, and Seven Silver Stars. Perret reports the following meeting of Brigadier General MacArthur and Colonel George S. Patton, Jr. in France on 12 September 1918: "'I walked right along the line of one brigade,' Patton wrote to his wife some hours later: 'They were all in shell holes except the general, Douglas MacArthur, who was standing on a little hill. . . . I joined him and the creeping barrage came along toward us. . . . I think each one wanted to leave but each hated to say so, so we let it come over us.' When a shell exploded nearby, throwing dirt on them, Patton remained erect but flinched. 'Don't worry, Colonel,' said MacArthur wryly. 'You never hear the one that gets you.' MacArthur's combat performance this day brought him his fifth Silver Star and Patton's enduring respect. He told his family MacArthur was 'the bravest man I ever met'" (p. 102).

As far as "Dugout Doug" is concerned, it is true that the General visited his troops on Bataan only once during his three-and-one-half months on Corregidor. But the reason is clearly that when he did so that one time, he told them help was on the way, because he had been told by Washington and believed that help was on the way. He could not bear to tell them later that it wasn't true. And he left Corregidor (with his wife and son) only because President Roosevelt ordered him to do so.
42 posted on 01/31/2004 3:40:16 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: jpsb; Travis McGee
Nothing speaks more strongly of MacArthur's character than his willingness to resign on demand. Other generals in his position in history could have led a successful junta. After all, President Truman was demanding something much less than victory for the first time in our history.

If MacArthur had told his men that President Truman threatened the Republic's security, I doubt if many of them would have left his side.

But MacArthur had the courage of his convictions. He stepped down to prove that he had always been fighting for democracy. He alludes to the hissing, faithless, and spineless decades ahead in this speech, and yet he holds his head high. He has faith in the American spirit, in human strength. Free men, no matter how few they may be, will always triumph over the weaker, unprincipled ones.

We have more of those days when patriots must weigh their commitments to democracy and security ahead.

43 posted on 01/31/2004 3:43:20 PM PST by risk
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To: snippy_about_it
bttt
44 posted on 01/31/2004 3:47:35 PM PST by risk
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To: risk
Thank you !
45 posted on 01/31/2004 4:41:55 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: risk
Thanks Risk.
46 posted on 01/31/2004 5:38:29 PM PST by SAMWolf (We secretly replaced the dilithium crystals with Folgers crystals...)
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To: jpsb
"Seems to me, your entire argument is based on his leaving Bataan." Strawman fallacy.
47 posted on 02/01/2004 8:12:12 AM PST by RunningJoke
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To: jpsb
"That evening Hoover sent duplicate orders via two officers to MacArthur forbidding him to cross the Anacostia to clear the Bonus Army Marchers' camp, but MacArthur flatly ignored the President's orders, saying that he was 'too busy' and could not be 'bothered by people coming down and pretending to bring orders'."

The man twice ignored direct orders and led an army against WWI veterans which resulted in the deaths of two infants by tear gas. If this happened today, he would have been imprisoned. I wonder JPSB, according to your logic if he should have won the MOH for this, like his father.

You-all MacArthur supporters are either ignorant or under the sway of hero worship. This action by MacArthur has a close parallel with the Chinese army in Tiananmen Square. The difference here is that they were under direct orders and killed more.

I hope, I never see the day, when the government treats Veterans like this. Simply, disgusting.
48 posted on 02/01/2004 8:33:38 AM PST by RunningJoke
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To: risk
"History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay have not passed into political and economic decline. There has been either a spiritual awakening to overcome the moral lapse, or a progressive deterioration leading to ultimate national disaster." -- General Douglas MacArthur
49 posted on 02/01/2004 8:41:42 AM PST by hosepipe
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To: RunningJoke
yea, that is a stain on his record, but to be honest, the events of the day (re: orders) are still cloudy and hotly debated. Personally I think the General ignored the orders to halt his operation and Hoover covered his butt. Hoover, by the way, never stated that he ordered the operation stopped. So, there is good reason to believe Mac Author was in fact obeying his orders.

His military service spans what 50+ years? Most of that as a general officer, WW1, WW2, Korea. Who can go 50 years at a top leadership position in a life and death profession without making a mistake. Don't judge Mac Author by his mistakes, judge him by his entire career. He is almost unique in history, most great commanders shine brightly for a brief period of time and then fade. Mac Author achieved greatness thru out his entire career.

50 posted on 02/01/2004 9:01:58 AM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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