Posted on 11/16/2004 9:06:20 AM PST by Lindykim
For the Catawba County (North Carolina) School District, it was three strikes and you're out. River Bend Middle School had allowed school supporters – such as tire dealers, security companies, and other churches to purchase advertising space on the school's athletic field. When the Oxford Baptist Church asked to display a sign with the Bible verse: "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God," (1 Corinthians 10:31), their request was denied. When negotiations were fruitless, ADF attorney Gary McCaleb sued the school district in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of North Carolina for violating the church and its members First Liberty – religious freedom. After a lot of hard work – thanks be to God – the school district has finally given up and agreed to settle.
Gary says: "We're thankful. The school district is paying the legal costs, and both sides now agree on the legal principles that regulate equal access to school property for community groups. It is important that school boards recognize the First Amendment applies equally. Government officials may not exclude a church from these types of programs merely because the group speaks from a religious viewpoint."
Thank you making another victory – and one that would have probably been lost by default in the past – possible because of your faithful prayers and support.
"It's OK to Say Merry Christmas!" On Friday, November 5th, ADF sent letters to every state board of education and National Education Association (NEA) chapter, explaining what current law allows regarding the celebration of Christmas in public schools.
The letter was also sent to the Department of Education and the national NEA office. It is our hope that the letters will be helpful in educating school officials that "it's OK to say Merry Christmas."
For more information on ADF's legal effort to defend and protect the public celebration of Christmas, please visit our website: www.telladf.org.
Thank You, Mr. Attorney General… Last week, Attorney General John Ashcroft stepped down from his post after four years of dedicated service. The attorney general is a man who loves his country very much and is devoted to God's righteousness. In his resignation memo to his employees, he concluded: "As I take my leave of this privileged post, I know that our efforts have not been in vain. The Builder of our city and the Author of our freedom has stood beside us. He stands beside us still." Amen. God bless you, Mr. Attorney General
ping
Amen!
Your tax dollars at work, if you live in Catawba County, NC ... paying for both sides of a lawsuit over whether a church can put a Bible verse on an advertising sign for which it's paid.
I wonder how I would find out whether there's any litigation of this sort in my county?
God Bless America!!
God Bless the ADF. The anti-ACLLU.
The cost of these lawsuits should be deducted from the pension fund for public workers.
Pings to a NC FRiend.
***That we need to fight for the right to wish someone a "Merry Christmas" speaks to the obscene intolerance of secular atheists and their God-hating cohorts.***
Time to start your Christmas shopping, and in every instance wish the clerk MERRY CHRISTMAS. Time to reclaim your right to do so.
.....(Romans 10:17)
Well, I'm one of those atheists, and I have no problem with a church advertising on the field, as long as others are allowed to do the same.
Being an atheist does not necessarily mean you are opposed to what others believe. For me, someone else's beliefs are their right, just as my disbelief is my right.
If your church wants to buy an ad on the ball field, next to the ad for someone's car dealership, I can see no reason why that shouldn't be OK.
"Time to start your Christmas shopping, and in every instance wish the clerk MERRY CHRISTMAS. Time to reclaim your right to do so.
"
When did you not have that right? I don't remember ever hearing of any customer being in trouble for wishing a store employee a Merry Christmas.
The only trouble I can see is if you insist that the clerk wish YOU a Merry Christmas. That's going too far. But please feel free to wish me, an atheist, a Merry Christmas. I'll respond with my usual Happy Holiday!
Exactly.
I never stopped saying Merry Christmas.
I never will.
I also send out Christmas Cards depicting the nativity of the Holy Family. I don't care who the recipient is.
Peace and Merry Christmas to all...
Aw, c'mon, TC. You live in Mecklenberg, right? Don't the moonbats run the Charlotte-Mecklenberg school system?
I suspect the CMS are celebrating Ramadamalingadingdong and Kwanzaa, but not Christmas or Hanukkah.
}:-)4
And fight to have the Cross restored to the LA Couny seal.
I don't know why anyone would feel moved to wish a non Christian a merry Christmas. How about, "have an nice day".
"That's going too far. But please feel free to wish me, an atheist, a Merry Christmas.
I don't know why anyone would feel moved to wish a non Christian a merry Christmas. How about, "have an nice day".
How would you know I was an atheist if I was working in some store somewhere. I think you should wish people a Merry Christmas if that's the winter holiday you celebrate. I certainly won't be offended. If you're Jewish, you could wish me a Happy Chanukah. Same reaction from me.
When I wish you a Happy Holiday, I'm hoping you enjoy the holiday you celebrate, whatever it might be. There's certainly no disrespect meant.
"Hey, who's this 'Christ' guy that keeps getting mentioned...you're saying he's the reason for the holiday? I thought it was all about Santa Claus..." LOL
(look at the schedule for Di$ney Channel over the next 6 weeks and find anything about Jesus....
Syndie talk host Howie Carr (nicknamed "Father Kwanzaa"
by some tongue-in-cheek listeners) always talks about this and greets listeners with a hearty "Happy Hhhhhhhholiday..." After all, we can't say Christmas
anymore and when kids sing Christmas Carols--excuse me,
Winter Solstice Songs, they're not allowed to do
"Away in a Manger", "Joy to the World", "We Three Kings".
Nope, it's "All I Want For Christmas", "Here Comes
Santa Claus"...
From Stan Freberg's "Green Chri$tma$":
CRATCHET: Well, I guess you fellows will never change.
SCROOGE: Why should we? Christmas has two s's in it, and they're both dollar signs.
CRATCHET: Yeah, but they weren't there to begin with.
SCROOGE: Eh?
CRATCHET: The people keep hoping you'll remember. But you never do.
SCROOGE: Remember what?
CRATCHET: Whose birthday we're celebrating.
SCROOGE: Well, ....... don't get me wrong. The story of Christmas, in its simplicity, is a good thing - I'll buy that. It's just that we know a good thing when we see it.
CRATCHET: But don't you realize Christmas has a significance, a meaning.
SCROOGE: A sales curve! Wake up, Cratchet, it's later than you think.
CRATCHET: I know, Mr. Scrooge, I know.
I wouldn't, and I wouldn't here either if you didn't feel compelled to inject it.
I think you should wish people a Merry Christmas if that's the winter holiday you celebrate.
I don't. Why would I assume they care about my holiday?
I certainly won't be offended.
Good for you, but you wouldn't have a chance for me to offend you because I feel no need to ask what your beliefs are or assume you care what mine are.
If you're Jewish, you could wish me a Happy Chanukah.
Same reason, why would I do that? On the other hand, if I knew YOU were Jewish, I might offer my greeting to you on YOUR holiday. That makes sense.
When I wish you a Happy Holiday, I'm hoping you enjoy the holiday you celebrate, whatever it might be.
Thank you.
There's certainly no disrespect meant.
None taken. But I wonder why you feel compelled to only greet me at a certain time of year. How about a "have a nice day" every time you see a person, that makes more sense.
"None taken. But I wonder why you feel compelled to only greet me at a certain time of year. How about a "have a nice day" every time you see a person, that makes more sense."
I don't. But I use different greetings at different times. If it's the holiday season, I use holiday greetings, whether it's Christmas, Halloween, or Thanksgiving. I don't do Easter greetings. The rest of the year, I might just say "Hello, how are you?" or wish you a good day. But, I promise, if I encounter you in a situation where we would normally interact, I'll greet you pleasantly. That's my habit.
Time went by and the county took over the display. More and more "stops" were added with ever more intricate and elaborate displays. Costs went up so the county looked for sponsorships. Last year Calvary Chapel wished to sponsor a display that included a cross and said "Jesus is the reason for the season."
Someone complained - we are talking about Broward County, Florida - and Calvary was told they could not sponsor because they had a religious theme. Understand, this whole display started as a Christmas celebration, but now had become a "Holiday Festival of Lights." Yeah, right.
Calvary sued and won. They had their display put up last year.
This year the county announced that because they could not control the content, there would be no more sponsorships of the displays. The article in the paper went on to describe the festive pirate display, snow display, bear display, etc. Of course there are no Christmas themed displays at all.
You have a point, I suppose.
I could say, "Have a Nice Day on December 25."
But it is much shorter just to say, "Merry Christmas."
Why would a non-Christian want to take offense at a simple wish from one person to another for merriment on a particular day?
LOL, how insensitive of you!
That would make no sense unless you were trying to make some point. Kinda like saying "have a nice day on April 22nd". No need to differentiate.
But it is much shorter just to say, "Merry Christmas."
"Have a nice Day" is only 12 letters, the other is 14.
If you were a Jew, why would I wish you a happy Ramadan?
Why would a non-Christian want to take offense at a simple wish from one person to another for merriment on a particular day?
I never claimed they would, but I'm sure some do. My point had nothing to do with the person hearing the greeting, only the one offering it.
***When did you not have that right?***
When our public schools turned the holiday into a Winter Holiday instead of a Christmas Holiday. My point is to keep saying Merry Christmas because it IS a Christian holiday. And your polite reply of Happy Holiday is fine.
"***When did you not have that right?***
When our public schools turned the holiday into a Winter Holiday instead of a Christmas Holiday. My point is to keep saying Merry Christmas because it IS a Christian holiday. And your polite reply of Happy Holiday is fine."
But, your original message had to do with saying, "Merry Christmas" to store clerks. You said you were going to take that right back. You never lost that right.
Indeed, schoolkids say "Merry Christmas" to each other all the time. They never lost that right, either.
However, the schools cannot offer up a Christmas celebration with Christian symbolism as an official function. That is true. The reason is that every school has students who do not celebrate Christmas, because they are of another faith or because their sect of Christianity forbids them to celebrate Christmas. So...the school stays out of religious celebration.
The children, however, may wish anyone they want a "Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa, or even a Happy New Year," as they choose.
The government may not officially celebrate religious holidays where people are compelled to attend, and school is one such place where people are compelled to attend. That's how it works. Individuals, however, are free to celebrate whatever religious holiday they wish. That is their right.
Government has no rights. Only people have rights.
BTTT
Bless you for having a 'good' attitude Mineralman. I suspect that if we could see exactly how many atheists are pushing the anti-Christian juggernaut we'd discover that there aren't too many. The guilty ones are activists, some motivated by resentment and others by a social-change-making agenda.
It works wrong.
Having said that, there should be no compulsory education nor government schools.
"Having said that, there should be no compulsory education nor government schools."
OK, but there are, and that's very, very unlikely to change.
"I suspect that if we could see exactly how many atheists are pushing the anti-Christian juggernaut we'd discover that there aren't too many. "
You'd be right. I know a few atheists, other than myself, and none are activists. They're about as "live and let live" as any group I know.
I only know a few, though, because atheists don't have a place to meet like a church or something. We're pretty much non-joiners.
Anyhow, have a Happy Thanksgiving!
"London printers Charles Goodall & Sons became the first to mass-produce Christmas cards. In 1862 they created cards saying "A Merry Christmas." Later, they designed cards with various designs, including robins, holly, mangers, snowmen, and even Little Red Riding Hood."
Saying "Merry Christmas" has been around longer than the PC freaks we have to deal with today. I say, say whatever you want to whomever you want and let the chips fall where they may!
If you want to get someone REALLY riled up, offer them a Candy Cane, LOL! Go check out why for yourselves, below...
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/christmas2.html
You may be correct, in the mean time, intelligent people without an agenda, should have no problem with Christmas greetings or any other type of peaceful greetings of good will in school.
The celebration of Christs' birthday is the fundamental basis for Christmas. It's the very 'spirit' of Christmas. As seculars continue to erase the reason for Christmas, they also remove all meaning and purpose for it. And as their eradication agenda progrsses, eventually people will begin to question why they ought to bother buying gifts, putting up trees, decorating, etc. Why bother with the expense and trouble if its just another day like any other. And that is how Christmas will wither away and die in America.
Already it's becoming more difficult to find wrapping paper that looks like it's for Christmas and not for some kids day or some "winter celebration".
One day I was reading Goebels action plans for eradicating Germany's existing holidays so as to replace them with what the Nazis felt were more fitting. His strategy was exactly what is occuring here in America: introduce resentment towards the holiday so as to divide the people; introduce into use another name for the holiday,ostensibly to
soothe tensions {Christmas is being replaced by 'winter solstice'}, continue to strip all meaning and purpose and then eventually, the holiday will simply wither and die.
snip.....Anyhow, have a Happy Thanksgiving!
The same back at ya'!
Perhaps. However, I think we need to acknowledge that public schools, in some form, are going to be with us for the foreseeable future. It's like the welfare state- conservatives have to accept that it's not going anywhere anytime soon. We should focus on trying to make public education work, whether by breaking the teachers' unions or fighting for school choice.
That cannot happen anymore.
whether by breaking the teachers' unions
Always worth a try, good luck on that one too.
or fighting for school choice.
You already have school choice.
Now all you have to do is get them to stop stealing your money and giving to other people to whom it does not belong in order to send their children to school.
I'm in Union County. The moonbats here seem to keep a low profile.
That's never going to happen.
Oh good, you're in the sane part of the state then. I read about some of the stuff that goes on in Mecklenberg County and I can't believe it.
}:-)4
I suppose this is the wrong time to mention how totally obnoxious I find it to hear "Merry Christmas!" when it's still NOVEMBER ...
Have a nice day, anyway :-).
(Just picked you at random for my rant, MM)
Charlotte-Mecklenburg schools are incredible ... the theft and corruption, as much as the moral and social climate. Thank God we couldn't afford the house we liked that was in Mecklenburg County!
It can happen more readily than you imagine. In fact there are several proposals for tax credits and the like.
"That would make no sense unless you were trying to make some point. Kinda like saying "have a nice day on April 22nd". No need to differentiate."
I'm not sure that, were I to wish another person to have a Merry Christmas, that I would be trying to "make some point" -- other than to wish the other person a degree of happiness on a day that is special to me.
I don't make it a habit to wish people happy April 22nd's (Unless, of course, they are, like me, from Nebraska.)
Isn't it rather sad that we've reached the point where the mere wishing of "Merry" on a particular day means, to some, that the person making such a wish is "trying to make some point"??
I don't look at it the same way as you. You made the exception, not me. You just couldn't bring yourself to consider a scenario that didn't include some reference to a day that has meaning to you, but not necessarily the other person. Instead of have a nice day, it's "have a nice day on a certain day", one of your choosing.
I don't think it's a problem to say Merry Christmas, some might, but I just question why someone would would wish someone a greeting about a religious holiday which they might not belong to. It makes no sense.
Unless someone wanted to secularize a religious holiday. Kinda like Christmas has been secularized.
I'm not talking about you.
Is it really a victory if the case is settled out of court?
It's at best a draw - nothing is resolved.
I'd say yes, because the school district has agreed that they violated the First Amendment rights of the church. If they'd made a financial settlement without a clear agreement on the principle, then that wouldn't be a victory that made the free speech point.
When I looked again at the article, they said, " ... both sides now agree on the legal principles that regulate equal access to school property for community groups." I'm not sure whether, in practice, that means the church puts their sign up, or whether "equal access" means there won't be any community signs!
It's interesting that there is no public school ban on the Religion of Homosexuality.
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