FBI probes 5th flight for hijackers, Plane grounded on day of attack

Chicago Tribune ^ | 18 Sept 2001 | Stephen J. Hedges, Naftali Bendavid

[newzjunkey]

WASHINGTON -- The FBI is investigating the possibility that suicide hijackers were on board a fifth transcontinental airline flight last Tuesday, one that was cancelled just minutes before its scheduled 8:10 a.m. departure from Boston due to a mechanical problem, according to sources familiar with the investigation.

Federal agents are searching for an undetermined number of passengers who were on board American Airlines Flight 43, according to one source familiar with the passenger manifest. The flight was to have departed Boston 25 minutes after American Flight 11, which struck New York's World Trade Center, this source said.

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[John Jamieson]

The injuried have been greatly exagerated for who knows what purpose. Only a few hundred accually stayed in the hospital even one night.

[RoughDobermann]

My point was only that their goal was much higher. No disrespect intended. Would you call DC a botched job?

Understood and agreed. I thought exactly the same things last Tuesday. The death toll could have been vastly higher if the aircraft had hit lower on the tower and at the same time. Let's just be glad (if possible) that they didn't. A tatical error, perhaps, but their overall goal was accomplished. For me, a botched job implies that goals were not accomplished and the job was a failure as a result. They got what they wanted; many deaths, disruption of daily life, etc. And may those who were behind it be revisted with the same to the nth power.

The same can be said of the Pentagon. Yes, more deaths would have been the result of a different impact point. Gladly, that didn't happen. But the very symbology of successful crashing an aircraft into the symbol of American military might AND killing people leads me to say that, no, it was not a botched job either.

[John Jamieson]

I thought so too, at first, but decided that WTC and the Capitol were the primary targets. We look at things differently than they do.

[Alberta's Child]

I understand what you mean. "Botched" is a very relative term in this case.

The bombing of the WTC was also a botched job because the truck bomb also included canisters of cyanide that were supposed to vent into the buildings. The only problem was that the explosion burned off all the cyanide in the process.

[newzjunkey]

I remember those reports. I've been very curious where they might have been going. Also, I think it's a mistake to assume only East-to-West trancon flights were targets or that only a trancon flight would be a substantial enough flying 'bomb' to do damage to whatever target was on their list. We know suspects lived in San Diego and even (IIRC) in Phoenix for a time. It's a false assumption to make that the more western states are "safe" from such hijackings because they happen to be in later time zone or there not being all that many high visibility symbolic targets (e.g. a Golden Gate bridge).

There's an military airshow coming up in a few weeks, my brother and I are debating whether we're going to go. I was surprised it hasn't been cancelled.

Also to consider, there are a number of airports that 'close' at night and don't fly before 6 or 7AM. I'm familiar with at least two in major west coast cities. Further, it seems obvious to me the terrorists aren't going to plan to attack empty buildings.

It's anyone's guess what's coming or what else was planned. I doubt, even with a full investigation, and the apprehension of everyone involved, that we'll ever know the full, not fully realized, horror of the planned assault.

[cajungirl]

The part where the guys wanted to learn to steer and turn the big planes but not land or take off,,,even I , a lowly civilian, guiless, female, would have known what that meant. They should have been in custody that moment.

[John Jamieson]

The plane that hit the Pentagon had been in the air for an hour and a half, had buzzed the Capitol and the White house in a large loop. He was lost, and the Pentagon was his only choice. He would have hit the other side, where the brass were, if it had been the main target.

[Alberta's Child]

I find it hard to believe that there were "only" 20,000 people there, especially when you consider that Morgan Stanley had about 5,000 employees (most of them worked regular hours) and the Port Authority probably had another 5,000 or so (at least). As with most government-type agencies, those PA employees aren't there a minute before 8:00 AM or a minute after 4:00 PM.

I deliberately overstated the estimated number of people involved slightly, to account for all of the people in the adjacent buildings (including the 47-story building that later collapsed). I think 50,000-60,000 potential victims is probably fairly close.

[cc2k]

East coast airports were needed because they were hitting east coast targets and wanted full fuel tanks. DC was missed altogether and WTC was botched.

I'm almost certain that west coast targets were planned, too. Those would have required west coast planes bound for east coast destinations. The whole system was shut down before the west coast airports were really up and running.

Also, it seems that the "pilots" weren't very proficient. They would have needed daylight unless they were very good with instrument flight.

By the time it was daylight on the west coast, the system was shutting down.

[blam]

"They may have also figured they could cause the WTC to topple over in a domino effect to the surrounding skyscrapers, rather than implode."

That was the intent of the first attack. The guy that was finally apprehended overseas told one of the captors that if he had had a little more time and money that he would have succeeded. (I heard that on the History Channel last night)

[RoughDobermann]

Not to get too mired in semantics, but...

Main Entry: Botch
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English bocchen
Date: 1530
1 : to foul up hopelessly -- often used with up
2 : to put together in a makeshift way
- botch·er noun

[Alberta's Child]

Also, it is true that companies in the WTC started their work days in shifts (i.e., 8:00, 8:30, 9:00, etc.). That was one of the conditions of any lease agreement for those buildings, since the lobbies and elevators would have been packed to the roof if every tenant started their work days at the same time.

[cc2k]

WTC: First plane was too high, Second plane was 18 minutes late, not level or centered. The goal was surely 20,000+.

The first plane into the WTC came over Manhattan. It couldn't have hit the WTC much lower without being in danger of hitting other buildings first.

I think the delay was planned so that live TV news cameras would se it. If that was the plan, it worked perfectly.

As for where it hit, the resulting fires weakened columns on two sides of each building. It's more likely for that to occur where they hit than it would be if they had centered the hits. Going through the center means the plane would have had to penetrate the core to get to the other side. By hitting to the side and cutting diagonally across a corner, they were sure to damage two sides of the outer skin. The outer skin was the main load bearing steel on those towers.

[John Jamieson]

Good points. But, no matter what the time of day, all attacks should have been at the same time. If the NY and DC attacks had been three or four hours later it would make more sense. Also would have gotten many more tourists.

[Diddle E. Squat]

Take off the tinfoil hat so you can hear me better. Your exaggerated injuries comment just sunk your battleship.

WTC was intended to be a delayed one-two punch, a common terrorist technique to ensnare the rescue workers. No, their failure was down in DC. I can't believe the Pentagon was more of a symbolic prize than the Capitol would have been. My guess is that the 3rd, 4th, and 5th targets were in DC: Pentagon, Capitol, & White House. WH was too hard to pick up coming in from the west, perhaps the 1st circle on the Capitol was too difficult(rumor was flight school said one of these guys was a crummy pilot), so they went for the Pent., with the expectation of follow up attacks. The only thing I don't get was why they did this attack when Bush was out of town. With all the inside info they had, surely they knew he wasn't at the WH. But the idea that one of these hijacked planes would take out AF1 makes absolutely no sense.

So all I can guess is that they may have wanted him out of the WH, so as not to be in the bunker. Of course if the WH was the 1st target, that point would be mute. But my guess is that there was a ground plan for Bush, perhaps a SAM(but high risk of failure) or suitcase nuke somewhere near his return to DC. but the delayed return allowed for a tightening of security that closed that window. But this theory seems unlikely, too.

[Recovering_Democrat]

What was the destination for flight 43??

[John Jamieson]

The fire is what brought the buildings down. A centered hit as low as possible gets the most fuel to stay in the building, takes out the stairwells. The lower the hit the fewer can get out.

[JRadcliffe]

Yeah but doesn't this grounded plane make five?

So if one hit one tower, another hit the other tower, the third hit the Petagon, and the fourth one crashed in PA (headed for the White House(?)) then the fifth one may have been headed for the Statue of Liberty - No?

[Deanna Knapp]

I have heard via a VERY reliable source that floating around in one of the chat rooms (not here) is a Pakistanian with the name nony79. Put it together...my question would be was there a flight numbered 79. He did offer to pray for my sources family BEFORE this all happened. It does make one think but also seems trivial. Don't know.