FBI probes 5th flight for hijackers, Plane grounded on day of attack

Chicago Tribune ^ | 18 Sept 2001 | Stephen J. Hedges, Naftali Bendavid

[estrogen]

Wednesday morning on a local radio talk show, someone called in and said her friend from Birmingham England had called her and asked where the other four planes were. She had read a report that their were 8 planes. Now how does some English woman know that?

[Mr_Magoo]

Odd,

I went to the NTSB web site just now to see what is posted there. In the past I was able to see at least an preliminary notice about a crash within 1 day. The list ends at 9-10 . . .

[estrogen]

Great idea.....think of the money it would save taxpayers. Maybe then they could get something done. And another thing, No tv cameras.

[cookcounty]

Why the planes went early---a speculation

One of the very first things that I noticed was ther VERY low load factors. These planes were flying with 20% of passenger capacity. I thinkk they may have selected an early Tuesday intentionally. It might be easier to move about the aircraft and take over if the plane isn't crowded and has a more relaxed atmosphere.

[blam]

You're welcome. I thought it note worthy that the FBI didn't deny that they were there. Just not there for that reason.

[meyer]

I'm not sure that the attackers were quite as sophisticated as we may think. Yes, they had adequate fuel to eventually topple the buildings, but I tend to think that the calculations had not been made. They were going for maximum fuel, but not because that is what they thought they would need, they just wanted as much as possible and hoped it would work.

I still think their attack was more symbolic than anything. I don't think they were as concerned in killing people as in making a scene. The WTC was the Mecca of free enterprise; the American way.

I'm also not so sure that they were in the know about the president's whereabouts, at least not when they were going through the process of buying tickets to these flights. I don't know when they had actually purchased the tickets but the info is out there. I'm sure the authorities know.

One last thing that I thought about: The concern over AF-1 as a target may have been symbolic as well. Perhaps they weren't all that concerned in hitting the actual plane. It may have been their way of saying that the President was the target. He is, symbolically, AF-1. He was wise to scramble. Also, I doubt if they could actually catch AF-1, particularly when he had fighter cover.

OK, one last thing; As I recall, in the WTC, it was the center core of steel columns that carried the brunt of the structural weight. Any hopes of cutting through the middle would have been pretty far-fetched. The plane would have sheered to pieces before doing very much damage to the supports. It was, as others stated, the heat that softened the steel and eventually brought the building down. Whether that was the plan or not is debatable. That it happened is tragic.

[4CJ]

Personally I like to hold spineless, gutless politicians and eco-freaks responsible in part - without the funds provided by overpriced oil terrorists would have a more difficult task. Thanks to tree-huggers, liberals, wide open borders and our money, terrorists stroll right in.

I'm all for holding terrorists responsible and killing them all, but we many Americans here of foreign (recently) ancestry that unfortunately will suffer from misguided attacks.

[mrustow]

Correct on all points, Congressman. These characters knew what they were doing. I have read that the bomb in 1993, was just a feet away from hitting the right spot for collapsing the tower. In both cases, engineers planned the hits.

I don't think the WTC builders had counted on the sort of hits they got. They were expecting an accidental (likely indirect) airplane hit, not the piledriver slams the buildings took. And of course, not with full gas tanks.

My theory is that the terrorist pilots were ahead of schedule, and were supposed to have hit at 9:30 or 10:00 a.m., when the buildings, mezzanine below them, and plaza around them would have been filled with upwards of 150,000 people. But they couldn't wait, because they knew that if they waited until then, they would be shot down.

That theory explains why other terrorist cells were stuck on the ground, in planes at Logan and JFK that were cancelled, due to the news of the WTC hits.

See also:

Arabprop: The Propaganda War

It DID Happen Here

[Sueann]

The goal was 100,000 - which is the estimated population of both buildings, plus visitors. They said there are approx. 25,000 employees in each building, and approx. 100,000 visitors throughout both buildings on the average day. There are always meetings and conferences in the buildings. They were hoping to get a high number. They didn't do very well, considering how many people it could have been.

I believe that because of the 1993 bombing in the Tower, people were still leery of staying in the building even though some supervisors said it was safe. I would have left too. Because of that decision, many, many more people made it out alive.

When you figure it could have been 50-75,000 people, 5,000 was surely a miracle. Of course, if my loved-one was one of the 5,000 maybe I wouldn't feel that way.

[blam]

"She had read a report that their were 8 planes. Now how does some English woman know that?"

I heard original reports here of 11 hijacked planes. That was wild early speculation.

[blam]

"As I recall, in the WTC, it was the center core of steel columns that carried the brunt of the structural weight."

Yup. The center weight bearing feature was somewhat innovative. People came from far and wide to view it, so I heard.

[willyone]

So doe's this mean that vicente Fox will not be getting his christmas present this year? I think it is time to get serious about controlling who is here.

[willyone]

And the 72 "Virgins" all look like Hillary,Boxer and Fineswine. Welcome to Hell boys.

[PennsylvaniaMom]

I agree with you. The planned hits were all about symbolism...The Pentagon, World Trade Center. But we can only guess where the 4th plane (the one that went down in Somerset County) was destined to hit.

If you have seen the reports of the path of the flight, they had to be coming back to the metro DC area to do damage. Why else would they turn around at Cleveland, and head back south across Pittsburgh? Both have downtown areas, both have tall buildings. Pittsburgh has the USX Towers at 64 stories. The plane went down about 8 minutes east of downtown Pittsburgh. Did the passengers realize where they were? Did they know they where away from a major population center? Did they learn of the local from the 911 operator? Did the hijackers get confused and think they were at Camp David? And most importantly, are there others out there, with their plans ready just waiting for their time? Scary, scary times.

[SKYDRIFTER]

The NTSB is normally good about hiding accidents, etc. (Money does that)

In this event, the FBI has seized jurisdiction until it's been exhausted as a crime scene. The NTSB should still have a preliminary posting, but you can understand why they are not in a hurry.

[Mr_Magoo]

I understand that, but even TWA 800 had a preliminary file the next day . . .

[winstonchurchill]

And the 72 "Virgins" all look like Hillary,Boxer and Fineswine. Welcome to Hell boys.

There's some kind of beer ad out where the Devil is shown shivering in a frozen over Hell saying something like "Something has gone wrong here."

I think the 19 Mohammedans are definitely muttering something like that today. As the teens say, "Get used to it."

[cpdiii]

I do believe that you have it right Billy Bob. If the planes had hit at a lower elevation the WTC probably would not have come down. The lower levels require much more steel supports as they are carrying the weight of the entire tower. A strike at a lower level probably would have killed more due to smoke and fire but the Towers would probably have not fallen. I suspect the planners behind the strike expected the Towers to fall but much quicker than occurred. The loss of life is tragic and brings tears to my eyes. The loss could have been many times greater if the towers had failed quickly.

I am throughly convinced that there was some very sophisticated engineers behind the planning of this attack. I do think the terrorist did hit the buildings at the desired height and speed.

In closing I would to say our strikes of retribution will kill some innocents. I much prefer killing their innocents than they killing ours. The goverment or goverments that gave support to these terrorists must be elimintated (killed) so that any other country that considers supporting terrorists knows they will be destroyed if found out.

[foreshadowed at waco]

I agree with you--not only did the delay of the 2nd flight by 18 minutes allow everyone to think the 1st one was an accident and to allow rescue workers to rush to the scene--it also guaranteed world wide media coverage of the 2nd attack as it occured--this was an amazing piece of political theatre staged for the illiterate masses to boost their sense of power and destiny by allowing the USA to be punished and taken down a notch in a very public manner--think of that 2nd plane slicing through the 2nd tower--it is riveting-- as we watched tower 1 burn we saw them kill the people in tower 2--not just the aftermath of an attack--we cannot underestimate the cunning or cruelty of the enemy--the 1st hit got our attention--the 2nd hit drove a stake into our hearts--like some sharks bump you and draw a little blood before they turn and bite.

They did the same things on the planes--they sliced the flight attendants' throats to get the passengers' attention and shock them into passivity and then they told them that they were going to die--that is what makes these people so evil--they have no souls and no feelings.